BtS - Strategy Idea for lots of early Unit XP

[ButSam]

I've tried this idea on Prince level and lower; not sure if it would work higher, depends on when the AI can build the Oracle. It seems to work quite well for producing unit XP. I am still learning how to fight wars in BtS, but I want some commentary on the soundness of this strategy in helping the war effort.

The nuts and bolts of this idea is to maximize the number of unit XP that a couple of cities in your empire can produce. This should be combined with Axemen to produce Level 3 Axemen near the beginning of the game.

Here is how it works...

1) Research Path:
* Beeline to Bronze Working (for chopping and finding out where you need to settle); you can adopt Slavery at this time, but it is probably not necessary yet.
* Research Masonry (for Great Wall... optional, but I have been able to chop for the Great Wall in all of my attempts Prince and lower and still get the Oracle)
-- Benefits: Great Spy, no barbs to worry about early on (so your city defenses can be a bit weaker until you can rush a bunch of Axes/Swords that are Level 3, and you can steal some techs you skip on your beeline path)
* Research 1 or 2 early techs depending upon worker development (e.g., Agriculture, Fishing, etc as necessary based upon initial position for some minor development of city terrain) Do not take the time to research Cottages yet or you may not get Oracle first. Do not research Animal Husbandry (unless you started with Agriculture or Hunting), unless absolutely necessary.
* Research Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood; start work on the Oracle (chop as necessary, but check the research screen to make sure you can research Monotheism and Writing before The Oracle is built; ideally, the Oracle would be complete the turn after you research Writing)
* Research Monotheism, Writing while the Oracle is being built (do not adopt Judaism or Hinduism as state religion if founded)
* Claim Theology as your free technology; adopt Christianity as your state religion and spread your unit to your best military production city (or your 2nd best, if your holy city is fortunate enough to be your best military production city)
* Switch to Slavery (if you haven't already) and Theocracy
* Produce military units (hopefully Axes) that start at Level 3 in the early game!

By the time you have done that, you should have Barracks in your military production cities, a Great Spy to steal some additional techs from your neighbors (once you get Alphabet), and all units you build in a Christian city with Barracks will start as Level 3 units. I generally can do all of this by 800 BC, and usually earlier. One time, I founded Christianity in 1440 BC with this strategy, on Prince level, with Ragnar!

I can certainly see pros and cons to this approach, but if you think you will need to fight an early war, the extra unit promotions could be very beneficial. With an aggressive civ, this is even more pronounced, since you effectively have 3 free promotions. Of course, some of your other cities could be building Axes earlier to rush an opponent sooner and ensure they won't get access to their own source of copper.

Thoughts?

Sam

 

[xanadux]

It's a very reasonable strategy in my opinion. CR2 axes will be quite a bit nicer than CR1. Also very nice because you can start out with shock or cover promoted stack defenders, and make a medic unit without fighting a battle. I don't see a problem with getting oracle in time on Monarch, this isn't as slow as say a CS or Feudalism slingshot.

I think you are doing pretty good not to make this an all or nothing bee line, and getting BW and a worker tech first. Going all religious techs to theology wouldn't be worth it because your growth would probably be slowed too much to compensate for.

I think this is a decent strategy for a cultural victory try ... you should usually get Judaism and Christianity, and probably can also get CoL first for Confucianism.

An additional benefit is the possibility for early Apostolic Palace. This gives excellent production boosts, and if you make sure the religion you have is primarily only in your borders, you can spread it sparingly and use it to stir up trouble. Force wars against the AIs you want, and also stop wars against yourself.

 

[ButSam]

Yes, in one game with 6 continents, I founded 5 of 7 religions with Ragnar (!) with this strategy, founding Christianity via The Oracle in 1440 BC. I missed Hinduism & Buddhism of course. The game was started in v3.03, and ended in v3.13. I lost a sneaky AP victory to Qin, but was dominating and well on my way to cultural victory... I should have kept the AP religion away from a couple of civs but I thought I could win an AP victory! One day I may replay from when I spread religions around; it was an awesome game...lots of fun! I felt like I was in control of diplomacy by spreading various religions.

I have noticed the AI got harder with 3.13 (yay!), and I would like to improve my conquest skills.... will try this strategy again with the new AI from the beginning.

The reason I say to adopt Christianity as your state religion using this method is that I have noticed in the ~3 times I have undertaken this strategy that Christianity spreads faster due to the free missionary, and you can make sure the religion is established in your military production city. You really don't lose much (a few culture, maybe about 20, in one city... 1 per turn until you get the Oracle... but you have much more control over the state religion).

Sam

 

[DaveMcW]

How many axemen do you normally rush with? If less than 15, I'd rather spend the hammers building +25% more axemen than try for a +25% promotion.

 

[vicawoo]

Can you get monotheism before the oracle builds on monarch and higher? And isn't this a late rush? I guess CR2 axemen do slightly better against 20% culture archers or CG1 archers than CR1 axemen do versus normal archers.

If your economy can afford itwhy not I guess.

 

[Elandal]

You can get Theology with Oracle at Monarch, but sounds like late for axerush - useful if you intend to go for swords & cats ASAP though.

 

[cabert]

How many axemen do you normally rush with? If less than 15, I'd rather spend the hammers building +25% more axemen than try for a +25% promotion.

So true!
At emperor level, I usually attack with 6 to 10 (depending on the victim) axemen, reinforcements coming later.
(If I rush, which is not happening in every game)

 

[ButSam]

Yes, Swords & cats are very useful using this method if you take it a bit further. It also seems to put you in a good position in a few different areas -- which I claim could outweigh the advantage (which I find is usually very short-term) of an early Axe rush, and an XP boost is more lasting than the build Axes strategy. (I am no expert though, so I could be wrong!)

Here are a few areas that are boosted that aren't entirely obvious:
* Currency, since you founded at least 1 religion and can do something useful with an eventual great prophet (I have found in 5 attempts that 3 times, on Prince, I have also founded Judaism; one time, I founded all religions except Buddhism & Hinduism with this method and with Ragnar of all people, without detracting too much from other areas)
* Espionage, since you will generate a great spy, often even before you research Alphabet
* Technology, since you can steal a lot of techs that you missed with the great spy's ep's; even if you don't, you can trade for a lot of techs you skipped (this requires Alphabet, but that should be one of the next things you research, perhaps after Iron Working and/or Code of Laws depending upon game situation)
* Culture, since you founded at least 1 religion and possibly also Judaism; you are also now better able to defend yourself with Level 3 units
* Diplo, since you have plenty of opportunity to build the Apostolic Palace with the religion you founded (and thus can at least partially countrol the spread of)

Boudica could be particularly deadly with this strategy. Instead of researching worker techs, research Iron Working (and afterward Writing get Mathematics). Otherwise, follow that procedure outlined. Guerilla I, Combat I, and 2 other promotions at the start!

 

[UncleJJ]

I think this strategy works particularly well with Monte. Just add Iron Working to the research list and you can have some Jags with combat and Woodman 3, others used to take cities can be Combat and CR2. Ordinary axemen are good for dealing with melee units with Monte too as he's aggressive, although the Jags are better against archers (with the 10% city bonus). He starts with Mysticism which makes the research towards Oracle a bit easier and if your scout gets lucky you might pick up a technology that saves some research.

I think Dave is right about the hammers being put to additional lower promoted axemen, but that ignores the fact that this strategy gives more research and Oracle gives prophet GPPs towards a first shrine. That religion gives culture (to consolidate the land) and the shrine helps to finance the empire you cut out. That might allow you to attack for a bit longer and take a bigger chunk before you run into financial problems from over expansion. It is situational but this is certainly a viable early strategy for those who want to expand using the sword, or axe even

 

[Gooblah]

It would be good with Monty, however, a couple problems:
The Jaguar could be the least versatile Vanilla UU, since its only very effective in Tropical games and near the equator.
Not sure, but isn't the Jaguar requring more hammers than standard axes?!