BTS Unaltered Gameplay Project

[alerum68]

I don't want this to be only able to ran as a MOD either. Not only goes it limit SG options, (like Ruff said, playing SG MODs), as well as requiring the whole team to be using the mod. What if someone has gotten BUG and modified it to their own taste, and can't use it?

Also, using 0.09 and Alerts still is having a problem. Is it because I used it as CustomAssets intead of in it's own mod folder? It's showing me the txt strings, but not the actual values.

Possible changes to make to the mod as well: In the EP screen, show both your EP, as well as your Rival with a & ratio shown as well.

Is there a way to select all the units on the contient, as well as all units on the contient, which aren't forted in a city?

An In city view calculator, that will show you the effects of building something.

Just some ideas I was having.

 

[EmperorFool]

We're agreed on no-mandatory mod, then. With any luck, someone will have a workaround to allow modules to work from CustomAssets. Alerum, this is exactly why you saw text strings from Civ4lerts. If there is no workaround by the time I return Monday, I'll back out the changes I made. It won't take long, so if a workaround appears later, I can redo it easily.

Keep this in mind when thinking about the flavor mod, though. Using the modular XML system is significantly easier when combining many different XML- and art-based mods.

Thanks, Sam_Yeager. I'll test out that CvPath solution when I get back. Contrary to making life more difficult, you've handed us the solution!

 

[EmperorFool]

In the EP screen, show both your EP, as well as your Rival with a & ratio shown as well.

Do you mean show the rival's Espionage Point total against you? The ratio is already shown in the form of a %. Maybe if you could mock up an example (show current and your suggested version) I'd understand better. I agree that this screen could be more informative, though.

Is there a way to select all the units on the contient, as well as all units on the contient, which aren't forted in a city?

As far as I know, you can't select units from different plots.

An In city view calculator, that will show you the effects of building something.

Do you mean showing something like the following?

• Library: +3
• Market: +2
• Forge: +5

If so, F1 (vote yes). Can you think of a way to present this cleanly?

Taking that further, one mod I was trying to work on before but didn't get too far was a way to answer the question of "If I adopt civic X, what will change?" Basically, something to help you decide when to switch from Bureaucracy to Free Speech. All I did was to make a hotkey which tells you how many Towns you have. I extended it to show how many of each type of improvement you had. The basic idea was to help you know how many extra hammers you'll gain by researching Railroad, Replaceable Parts (lumber mills), or Printing Press (villages and towns).

I think it would be nice to have some sort of screen that summarized all of this nicely. The trick is, the game makes adjustments when you switch civics (e.g. reassigning citizens and specialists), so it's not as easy as I initially thought. Any ideas on how to do it? Could we switch the player, calculate the differences, then switch back? I don't know if there would be side-effects.

 

[Ket]

Well the good news of not going modular is it can still be used in a modular setting. Since unless another flag is set, custom assets are loaded with a module. Currently my composite mod, runs both module and non module mods.

Now as far as modules loading from custom assets, Impaler[WrG] is the mxml guru and could assist on those concerns.

Sorry I have not been around today to bang on the drums so to speak, but I've had a nasty case of bronchitis thats bordering on walking pneumonia so ive been taking it easy for the last week. Today was mostly sleeping.

Since .09 is a dead release, I'll wait for .10 to bang on crap which i guess is due out monday.

Remember I'm cross developing this into my normal composite mod as well as building a flavor mod for it.

I suggest we keep a release path in mind, I see elements of feature creap happening already. Since EF has become our defacto main python scriptor! (YAY GO EF!!!!) he should prob have the path outlayed so at least we make sure the main functionality will get added in, and then we change on top of it..,,,,

Reguarding that MAC fix posted... wow we could have used that yesterday!!!!

 

[EmperorFool]

No worries, I'm just throwing out ideas for future stuff since I'm not home to be able to code. I'm still on track to keep porting the existing stuff from Ruff's mod, most notably the AutoLogger for SGers.

What should be next after that? Can you guys do a little prioritizing on what to do next? (Like how I dodged that? )

Re: the CvPath fix for Macs, it wouldn't have helped us yesterday since we're not running on Macs. Actually, I'm still unclear what was up with your regkey. Why were you getting the double BtS dirs, and will people running Civ 4 Gold be okay with what we have? My brain still hurts from the session.

 

[alerum68]

Do you mean show the rival's Espionage Point total against you? The ratio is already shown in the form of a %. Maybe if you could mock up an example (show current and your suggested version) I'd understand better. I agree that this screen could be more informative, though.

In the EP screen itself, at least with the Better EP screen, it shows your total EP towards a rival, but doesn't show how much they have against you. They show a %, but I believe it's the cost of doing espionage against your rival, not the ratio between you two.

Do you mean showing something like the following?

• Library: +3
• Market: +2
• Forge: +5

If so, F1 (vote yes). Can you think of a way to present this cleanly?

Actually I was thinking of connecting it to the Commerce screen. Add a second column... one column will show Current, pre-production stats, and the second will show what it will be, working current citizens, with the new building. I'd like to have health and happiness included, but not sure where to put 2 columns for that.

I think it would be nice to have some sort of screen that summarized all of this nicely. The trick is, the game makes adjustments when you switch civics (e.g. reassigning citizens and specialists), so it's not as easy as I initially thought. Any ideas on how to do it? Could we switch the player, calculate the differences, then switch back? I don't know if there would be side-effects.

Wow, that would be nice but you'd have to have your own summary screen that would show all cities with citizens, then a total on the bottom. Something like the layout of the EP, with long bars for each cities, that shows the info you want. This would be a huge task though!

As for modding priority I'd like to get the CustomDomesticAdvisor in after autologger. I'd also like to know if we can change it so it doesn't put the config file in the CIV main directory, but in the CustomAssets directory.. this should make it easier to include cammanago's 30 page of screens.

On a side note... umm... EF you've been doing a kick a$$ job of coding, but have you been keeping change logs at all on the versions? The reason why I'm asking is because I'm debating if I should put old versions with change logs on SourceForge.

 

[EmperorFool]

I admit, I'm so used to putting in commit messages at work, that I never picked up the habit of maintaining a changelog as I code. So while I have each of the ZIPs I've uploaded, I don't have any sort of list of changes outside of my head. In my view, a changelog is only necessary when you're changing from X to Y. As the initial commit will start from scratch, that there have been multiple versions so far can be ignored.

We do need a feature list file, readme, etc. though. Would you mind creating those?

As for moving the INI file, it's certainly possible. The only advantage to not moving it is that we can use the standard CvPath module that other people are using. In any case, I don't understand how it relates to Cammango's extra CDA screens. Can you clarify please?

In the EP screen itself, at least with the Better EP screen, it shows your total EP towards a rival, but doesn't show how much they have against you. They show a %, but I believe it's the cost of doing espionage against your rival, not the ratio between you two.

I thought the % was essentially the ratio (+100% if they have done the counter-espionage mission against you recently). Although I agree the actual number of points would still be handy.

Actually I was thinking of connecting it to the Commerce screen. Add a second column... one column will show Current, pre-production stats, and the second will show what it will be, working current citizens, with the new building. I'd like to have health and happiness included, but not sure where to put 2 columns for that.

Well, no buildings (except the Palace) affect commerce directly -- only gold, science and culture. But some buildings obviously affect production, and that could be helpful. In fact, this would be a great SDK mod where mousing over a building would show you the actual changes it will make to that city. If you can mock it up, I can at least investigate if it's doable in Python.

Wow, that would be nice but you'd have to have your own summary screen that would show all cities with citizens, then a total on the bottom.

My idea is a little less ambitious than that. That would be huge! I just wanted an overall effect. For example, switching from Mercantilism to Free Trade, you lose the free specialist and gain a trade route. I'd like to see something like

• -5 (-2 Engineers, -1 Priest)
• +2 (-1 Merchant, +21)
• +10 (-3 Scientists, +21)
• -3 (-1 Artist)

Granted, dealing with Mercantilism is probably the most difficult civic since the game adjusts so much when you switch in/out of it. It more than most other civics would really benefit from seeing the differences in each city.

Switching from Bureaucracy to Free Speech (+2 per Town) could be calculated simply by examining the capital and counting all worked Towns. And unlike production, you don't care which cities produce your science and gold -- just the totals for your empire.

However, with a general mechanism of switching civics temporarily and being able to run an empire-wide diff would enable a nice summary screen. You're right, that'd be a lot of work. Probably fun though.

 

[alerum68]

I'd be more then happy to make the readme and feature list. Just give me a basic idea of what you want include in the readme, and i'll make one up. Should I make it HTML to allow for linking, or txt?

With the Custom Domestic Adivsor it makes a .txt document that goes into the main Civ4 directory. This .txt file is what it calls to make the different screens. The only problem is that if we want to include different list to include, like cammangos, we'd have to make an installer to put the file into the main civ4 directory. Also, it's only set up now to have 1 .txt file, and it'd be nice if it would allow for different names in the config file. This would make it much easier to choose which config to use from the Options screen as well. When we get this one in, and working I plan on making several different configs for this.

 

[EmperorFool]

I'd say for now before the first solid release, a simple text file that lists which mods have been included so far along with basic install docs should be sufficient. Probably list the people involved in the project and the link to this thread. I can't think of anything else atm.

When we release, we should have our own subforum here I believe, and then we can write up full install docs and everything else in BB code. The reason for the initial text file is so that each of us can modify it as they commit changes. It's not so much a changelog as a "done list."

I'll look into the CDA more thoroughly. I think I get what you're saying about the different config files. I just assumed that to use Commango's configs you had to merge his file into the base CDA one (or replace it entirely).

Speaking of CDA, were you able to integrate a working version? I think you had said you were going to try the Vanilla version.

 

[alerum68]

Will do a quick bmp later today of what I'm talking about, and see if you can do it. CDA is a no go for me... I got the same results from Warlords as I got from the vanilla version, so I'd suggest building from that. I don't think you need the gamecore.dll file to do what we want.

I'm hoping I'll have the will power to stop playing BTS long enough tonight to get the readme for you guys, with whats added and todo list and install instructions.

 

[Ket]

Alerum68, I can do the readme if you wish.

EF: Lets not move the ini file, maybe i'm jaded for all the time we spent to get it to work right... but I think that we want it there, I think if CDA is a problem we can get CDA to read the right file.

Both: My vote for priorities is to get a feature rich version that matches our goals of the mod and then build in from there. That summery screen may be a bit out of focus for the first major cut of it, and I think we want to get some other things in first.

CDA and a logger make the next big things I can see....

If i do a flavor add on I guess we dont want it modular either eh?....
Crap... I've got all my flavor stuff being done modular, I guess I can pull that... then again if they run this in Custom Assets and then load the flavor mod on top of it, I can do it modular....

 

[EmperorFool]

All these idea discussions to me are for future consideration. It's just fun talking about them. They shouldn't hold back an initial release of BUG. Sure, some small things may get included as we go, like my adding Raw Production to Raw Commerce, but those will be few and only when quick. Summary screen? Hardly quick!

Agreed about moving the INI file. I don't see a problem with our INI and CDA's playing nice together. If they do, I can fix CDA.

I looked at CDA, and the C++ SDK changes are very minor and can probably be excluded. The strange thing is, it appears to make it so clicking on the city's icon opens the city screen ... but doesn't the normal DA do that already? I'll have to check the original C++ source when I get home.

As I think I said above, I recommend sticking with modular XML loading for the flavor stuff. If you're adding a bunch of civs and units, you're probably not playing FfH or any of the other mods that do the same. If so, people can do their own merges. And yes, the modular flavor mod should run just fine on top of BUG as either a mod or in CustomAssets.

 

[Ket]

Wait I think I remember this...
There was a bug in the f1 screen that was eventually fixed that had to do with zooming to a city... This may have been a work around for that...

I dont think we can compile our own DLL...doesnt that break the whole ensure no gameplay altering things are changed... If not and we want to do some .DLL work... I think looking at the unofficial bug fix solver/dale/kael and others did which is on apaylon.... I can have a .dll of those set up for .10 release if you wish....

Don't mind my feature creep . .. .. .. .. .ing, I'm saying it more for my own sake...
LOL!!!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=168750

Alternatively I can include this in the flavor mod...

Spoiler :

Here's a minor update to the BtS AI, and some minorish fixes.

Changes:

* Fixing a possible infinite loop problem with unit movement.
* Poison Water and Foment Unhappiness missions now have the same effect, duration and cost on all game speeds, to mirror the official patch.
* AI now more likely to promote siege units with Accuracy to better handle the changes to bombardment in BtS
* AI understanding of what is an "early Wonder" now correct for non-Normal game speeds.
* AI civs that are close to reaching a Domination victory recognize that and are more likely to declare war, in particular with Aggressive AI.
* "Dead unitgroup walking" crash fix as per Dale
* No-conscript colony crash fix as per Gyathaar
* Another colony crash fix as per myself
* Fixed the bug allowing Forts in foreign territory, which would result in Forts overrunning useful rival improvements.
* AIs close to domination population will have a high priority for health buildings in cities that are unhealthy.
* AIs close to domination population will put a high priority on researching Genetics and will like other health techs better.
* The AI will be less reluctant to raze cities that have its state religion if it doesn't have the shrine for that religion.
* Corporation maintenance is now exempt from inflation, so the costs don't blow up so much.
* Added possible workaround for a crash bug.
* Fixed an infinite loop problem with city attackers (thanks Gyathaar)
* Blockade code rewritten so that blockading is now much faster, as per Gyathaar
* Fixed Quick-speed crash (whoops)
* Auto-explore change per Bhruic.
* Auto-explorers will heal when wounded.
* Advanced start population selling fixed per Gyathaar
* Fixed the AP-conversion hammer bug
* AI will use espionage to destroy non-resource terrain improvements - such as Towns.
* AI may destroy improvements through espionage just because it hates you, with no war plan
* Increased likelihood of the AI stealing techs - hopefully it will do so now

August 12 changes per Blake:
* Fixed AI airstrike bug
* AI now only capitulates to the team which has done them a majority of the damage.
* On non-aggressive AI, the AI's are more aggressive early in the game.
* AI trains more units early in the game.
* AI SHOULD do a better job of bribing other AI's (this may or may not work)
* The cost to Bribe AI's into war now uses a new algorithm, it better reflects the impact of the bribe (ie a large AI charges a lot more to be ordered around). Generally bribing will be more expensive, especially cases where it used to be excessively cheap.
* AI's tell you to sod off if you try to bribe them onto a victim with an intact nuclear arsenal.
* AI brags about it's nukes more.

* Always Peace now suppresses AI militarism (with some barb awareness).
* AI spends less on Espionage.
* AI trains spies with lower priority.
* AI better aware of Free Market / Environmentalism corporation impact.

* Exploring units should now heal.
* Possibly fixed exploring "YoYo" issue.
* Fixed a puppet strings exploit related to naval invasions.
* Fixed some issues which hampered or stalled AI early game expansion.
* Tweaks to Governor, particularly "Emphasize Food"
* Fixed an undefended cities issu

 

[alerum68]

It wasn't the INI file I wanted to move guys, but a file that CD makes called something like CustDomAdvOptions.txt or something like that, that lets you store the screens in a file that can be passed around. The only problem is that when CDA came out no one could figure out a way to have it work properly in the CustomAssets folder.

If that's what the DLL does then I know what it is for. In Warlords there was a bug with the little icon that zooms to city,(It wasn't in the original CIV release) and anytime you got more then 1 page worth of cities, around 20, it would cause crashes. I remember actually limiting my cities to prevent this and still use CDA.

And I'll do the readme Ket... felt like I've done nothing so far.

 

[EmperorFool]

Cool, maybe we won't need the C++ changes after all if BtS doesn't have that bug. And I understand what you mean now about the INI vs. txt file; that should be doable using CvPath I bet. I've got my fingers crossed that I can get CDA to work in BtS without too much trouble. For one thing, the Python code looks very well organized -- that's a great start. Some of the Firaxis code is, um, not.

 

[alerum68]

I think you won't have a problem... It was me being overwhelmed by all the errors I was getting that I didn't know where to start how what to fix where.

Here are the list of Mods I have already, and a suggestion for a way to organize the Options Screen. Is it possible to have Tabs within each option screen, somewhat like Winrar has?


• Option Switching Core by EmperorFool.

• Main Screen Interface
 Not Just Another Game Clock by
 Remove Dead Civs from Score by
 Power rating in Score by
 Attitude Icons by

• Pop-up Game Messages
 Civ4lerts by
 Reminders by

• Advisor Screens
 Better Espionage Screen by
 Sevopedia by
 Great Person Tech Preferences by

• City Screen
 Specialist Stacker by
 Raw Commerce by

Haven't put the credits in all of them yet, as that will take some time to research. I want to put the original Modder, as well as anyone who has carried on the torch of the project, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get it all. I know the original coders of most of the mods listed, but not everyone who worked on it after they left, but not sure of etiquette in this case.

Anyway, can anyone name the Mods I'm missing, and input on giving credits. Also, I'm listing our names in alphabetical order, so don't think I'm putting my name on top for any other reason.

 

[alerum68]

here's a rough draft in the readme. Set it for version 0.10, which I'm assuming will be the next working version. Will work on the todo list now, before the thread gets to hard to sort through.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Also, after adding autolog, and CDA, I think we've got a fairly decent basic version 1.0 which we should be able to release after a little testing for stability.

Ket, you seem like you know SourceForge and and WinSCP. Could you help me figure out how come I can't connect to SV server even though I got my keys set up? I don't want to dig up CuteFTP again.

 

[alerum68]

And here is the Todo List.

Want to update the Front Page. What is the last stable release we have? 0.06 or 0.08?

 

[EmperorFool]

I've backed out the MXMLL changes. I think I'm going to tackle CDA first.

Here is BUG Mod 0.10.zip

 

[QcFrogMan]

Being a big fan of the jray-UGH mod that I had on Warlords, essentially because I've always wanted some gameplay enhancements without changing a thing to the AI that wasn't meant to be by the gamemaker, I've been following along in this thread. Impressive stuff but I'll be honest, I don't understand a word of all the programming stuff. Here's a stupid question for you though: with this "copying to CustomAssets" thing, does it mean I could install it, as per instructions in alerum68's readme file and it would work with any game without having to start a new one?

Reason I ask is that it's always nice to be able to see all your game in only one Hall of Fame, since this mod doesn't touch the AI...

Anyway, two thumbs up for the effort and I'll for sure download and install this thing the minute you release it.

QFM