Buce01: The Slavemaster

Guess I'll be finishing my set up tonight then. Or at least starting to finish it, I need to remember where I was at and what I was thinking, plus I'm still having trouble getting "It's a small world" out of my head.

I think I agree with Tusker about trading with Shaka for coal. I had thought we had gotten to the point where we did not want him to get any more powerful and we should start whittling him down some.
 
Should we move into WW1-style warfare with Rifles covering Cavs and Cannons, advancing slowly, redlining everything we attack? I get the impression that we don't have enough cavs to try to steamroll Shaka as we raze a few of his cities.

Also, do we want to try and prop up Murray for a little while longer? Or has he outlived his usefulness?
 
Some questions I am recalling from playing part of my set a week ago:

1) Do we want peace with the Iroquois? They offered and I did not take them up on it yet. I had thought most if not all of our weariness was due to the Hittite war, I don't recall how many units we lost to the Iros.

2) Do we want to start a prebuild for either US or ToE?

3) Since we had not put any beakers into it yet, is Industrialization really the next thing we want to research? I would say yes, we could use the factories in the core, especially if we are going to be warring with the Zulu, we will need the production.


As for Murray, with 5 (effectively 4 - Alaca Huyuk he just retook or got flipped and Shaka should take it back within a turn or 2) citites I don't think he's going to be more than a bump in the road for Shaka. Now does that mean we should attack them so we can get the territory instead? I don't know.

The problem with the coal near Tyrana is that a) I don't think we could get a force with a settler down there to claim it before Shaka overruns the area, and b) even if we focused on that, it would be difficult to maintain that town during a Zulu war, especially if it were cut off. I think for coal we should either trade with the Ottos or take it from Shaka.

I think the Ottos have 2 sources of coal (I'll check). Them I would not mind gifting up and trading.
 
My thought about commando-settling the Tyrana coal is that we'd maintain peace with Shaka for another 20 turns or so, building a dozen Rifles and sending them down to coal-town.

Gifting the Ottos (and pulling them into an alliance vs. Shaka, perhaps?) sounds much better than gifting the Zulu.

I like the sound of getting both US and ToE, but I'm not sure whether or not we can actually pull it off. If we have to pick one, I'm not sure which is more valuable to us in this game.

For the next tech, Industrialization is good unless we want to beeline for RP, IMO.

Edit: As for attacking the Hittites for more territory, I don't think we have the available settlers to take their lands right now.
 
I like Industrialization for the next choice. I don't think we are ready for war with Shaka yet. Once we have factories and rails down we should be able to produce quickly enough for some attacks against him. After thinking about it, I don't think cannon will help us although having a few (say 5-10) could be effective to keep people people out of our borders.

As for peace, We could use whatever slaves we can get but I think it is a judgment call. If you feel you can take a city or two CivA I'd say prolong the war. If not, make the peace. We will have to take a poke at Shaka but I think we will need arty to do it. Beelining to RP is probably our best plan. We should think about starting to build the force now.

As for the coal, I like the idea of dealing with the other continent. By the time we were set up for a poke at Shaka, we could have a lot of our land roaded. Now that we are in the industrial age we have a lot to do. Let's plan for the Zulu conflict by building rifles and cav and work on improving our productivity. We need that coal though. I think we are left with begging and borrowing as we are not really set up for stealing it quite yet.
 
And after a rather extended hiatus, we are back!

1070 AD Turn 222 (2) continued

OK. First problem: coal. I think we need it now, and that seems to be the consensus, so that means trade. I don't want to trade with the Zulu, they already need to be trimmed back, IMO, so lets see what Osman is doing this fine day.

slavemaster1070ad-SteamOtto.JPG


69gpt is all he'll give. Incidentally, I dialed up Shaka too, he won't give *any* gpt for steam. I think he's almost done researching it. Push through the deal with Osman. Now, dial him up again.

slavemaster1070ad-CoalOtto.JPG


Two excess luxes and 5gpt from us and coal is ours.
Start the gangs railing.
New Knossos founded in an empty spot. Start on Settler.
New Argos founded in ruins of some Hittite town in the South. Start on Walls, since this area will end up being part of the Zulu war.
Switch Thermopylae over to a pre-build.
Short rush - aquaduct in Mycenae, Cav in Thessalonica, Rifle in Corinth

IBT
Zulu move a bunch of cav around.
Corinth: Rifle --> Rifle (due in 8)
Mycenae: Aquaduct --> Market (due in 17)
Thessalonica: Cav --> Cav (due in 8)

1080 AD Turn 223 (3)
Some deals ended, we are down to 152gpt now.
Railing
Hittites down to 3 cities now.
Short a cannon in Marathon, and the Walls in New Argos.

IBT
Hittite capital razed by the Zulu.
Athens: Cav --> Cav (due in 5)
New Argos: Walls --> Cannon (due in 20)
Delphi: Cav --> Cav (due in 5)
Marathon: Cannon --> Cannon (due in 5)
Arabs complete Shakespeare's Theater.

1090 AD Turn 224 (4)
Rail
Short the Aquaduct in Troy to allow for growth next turn.

IBT
Hittites now a OCC
Sparta: University --> Settler (due in 3)
Pharsalos: Cav --> Rifle (due in 8)
Apollonia: Settler --> Settler (due in 15)
Troy: Aquaduct --> Cannon (due in 8)

1100 AD Turn 225 (5)
More railing.
Rush a couple cavs

IBT
Iros and Zulu make peace
We lose our silks as the Zulu destroy the Hittites. That was rather quick.
Ellipi: Cav --> Cav (due in 7)
Knossos: Cav --> Cav (due in 7)
Miletos: University --> Aquaduct (due in 20)
Rhodes: Cav --> University (due in 6)

1110 AD Turn 226 (6)
More rails.
Now that the Iros are not at war with the Zulu, I want to make peace with them too. And they finally have something to give, so peace for 12g, 8gpt, and WM.
Now that all wars are over, drop lux to 0, sci to 80 with Industry still in 3.
Rush Market in Sicyon.

IBT
Ithaca: University --> Aquaduct (due in 13)
Phocaea: Market --> Cannon (due in 5)
Eretria: Cannon --> Cav (due in 10)
Sicyon: Market --> Cannon (due in 6)

1120 AD Turn 227 (7)
New Mycenae founded in the hills toward former Hittite territory. Need more settlers.
Rail more.
Switch Delphi to a Uni and hurry it, and short a riflr in Corinth.

IBT
Sparta: Settler --> Cannon as a placeholder for a factory
New Delphi: Walls --> Settler (due in 30)
Corinth: Rifle --> Rifle (due in 6)
Delphi: University --> Cav (due in 5)
Artemisium: Cav --> Cav (due in 7)
Argos: Cav --> Cav (due in 9)
Gortyn: Cannon --> Cannon (due in 6)

1130 AD Turn 228 (8)
Ottos have learned Communism and have revolted. Or are revolting. Something.
Rail and rush a couple things.

IBT
We become industrialized. Start on Electricity. At 100% Sci it will take us 7 turns and we will still make 133gpt.
New Mycenae: Walls --> Library (due in 40)
Megara: Market --> Harbor (due in 12)
Marathon: Cannon --> Cannon (due in 5)
Syracuse: Settler --> Aqueduct (due in 50)

1140 AD Turn 229 (9)
Ottos emerge as Democrats, not Commies.
Lots of deals expiring next turn.
New Herakleia founded in old Babylon, start on a settler.
Rail some more. Switch build in the capital to a factory, and in Thermo to US.

IBT
Ephesus: Cav --> Rifle (due in 8)
Thessalonica: Cav --> Cav (due in 7)
Mytilene: Cannon --> Cannon (due in 7)
Apolyton: Settler --> Cav (due in 40)
I get to add an addition to the palace.

600 AD Turn 175 (10)
Shift Sci down to 80%, get Elec in 7 at -29gpt. That was a lot of deals expiring.
Rail more.


2 Settlers
90 Slaves
28 Riflemen (28v)
59 Cavalry (53v/6e)
6 Cannon
2 Galleys
2 Cav Armies (6 cavs)
12 Medieval Infantry (11v/1e)

We are building
3 Aquaducts
12 Cannon
8 Cavalry
2 Courthouses
1 Factory
3 Harbors
2 Markets
3 Rifles
5 Settlers
2 Universities
Universal Suffrage.

- We are pretty much in the lead tech-wise, except for Free Artistry, plus the Ottos have Communism.

- The 2 settlers are in position for 2 more towns, which we need, unit support is up to 56

- I think we are strong enough to start to comtemplate war against Shaka, though we are still weak compared to them. We still have a ROP with him too.

I forgot an end screenie. Sorry.



And the file
>>FILE<<.
 
Roster
Phaedo - UP!
Buce - on hiatus
Elephantium - on deck
CivA - just played
Miles Teg - vacationing


Can you take it Phaedo, or has RL still got you socked in?
 
Okay. i will be able to take it in a day or two. Sorry for the delay
 
Got it. Will have a look after work and post any questions.
 
I didn't get home in time to play around as much as I would have liked. I will be able to look more tomorrow and I anticipate I can play my set on Thursday if we get consensus. Here are my initial thoughts after touring around. Forgive me if I miss something as I have been out of the loop for a good while.

We are really short of slaves and this is a serious problem; however, I don't see a quick solution to this problem. We should be looking to buy whatever we can.

As I see it, we have two concerns that flow from our inability to develop our land adequately: our economy is starting to lag and our research is beginning to slow down. In addition, we have a monster to the South that needs to be dealt with.

I didn't get a chance to re-MM the empire but I was able to get us up to -17gpt (from-29gpt) by stopping growth in towns that won't get rails inthe near future and changing the extra citizen to a tax man -- Cops suck unless they give you the needed shields to get you the ideal amount for a desired build and you can't get engineers.

The good news is that we are ahead in research; we have a ton of Cav -- all we need IMO-- we have a couple of settlers at the ready; we have enough cannon for defense; the workers we have are working efficiently; our logistical ability is pretty good and we have a couple of good producing cities.

Strategy:
We all know that we are heading for a conflict with Shaka so let's deal with that issue first. We are not going to be in a position to crush him in one fell swoop and we absolutely need some coal. It seems to me that our first target should be Tyrana.

Once we get RP, we ought to be able to cut through Harran toward Tyrana from Pergamon in a turn or two. Shaka's Western cities are hopelessly corrupt so once his current units are spent, we should be able to take the former Hittite lands. I think we need to raze everything for slave purposes.

The goal would be to raze Tyrana and build a line of cities from the Pergamon lake to the coast. Once that was accomplished, we just defend that line until we take the Western territory, make peace and improve our land as fast as we can. We might want to take Alaca Huyuk if we can manage it, but it would be a secondary target along with Chondote and Hubishna.

There is enough no-man's-land in the West that we can cut the roads without declaring war with Cavs and be in a position to cut down his Western units as they end their movement. We will need to count squares and time it well as we should be looking for 0 losses defending the West. If we take minimal losses, WW won't be an issue.

To do this, I propose to change all builds to rifles for upgrade and change all cannon in corrupt towns to settlers. The settlers we have should be used to drive the wedge and we'll worry about re-settling land after. If we divert some of our workers to rail Tegea, Phonaeca, Mytilene, Sicyon and New Argos, our 6 cannon can be used in defense fo that area with rifles/infantry and a few Cav. The actual tactics will need to be worked out in more detail and perhaps discussed mid-set.

Improvements:
How we use the slaves we have is a judgment call. My personal choice would be to set up the logistical network we need for war and then move back to improve. In general though, we need to rail our big producers, rail our medioum producers and water our farms. We have 93 slaves. I would suggest we focus on railing the core and then set up a team of 20 slaves to water and rail to the West, 20 for the North and the other 53 to rail the medium producers. I wouldn't be averse to dedicating more slaves to the farms as the faster tehy get up and running, the more we can dedicate to research.

Builds:
Here are some seriously debatable issues. Why are we building Universal Suffrage? Wouldn't the Mil Academy or Heroic Epic suit our purposes more? WW isn't an issue if war tactics are effectively managed. Our two Cav armies will do some great havoc to Shaka and strengthening them would be great. 3 in the field and we would have the Pentagon as an option too yea? I think these are worthwhile builds because we will not be in a position to launch an overseas attack until we have transports anyway. I think switching to the Mil Academy is the best call.

In general, I agree with the push to build science and corruption buildings but I wouldn't mind getting some raxes in medium productive cities. Once we get the farms going, we will have cash to rush builds and we will need more than just the core to produce units. Once we get factories those cities will be effective. I don't think we should build aqueducts until we are in a position to improve the land of the relevant cities. It's not that those cities don't need them, it's just that they don't need them now. Let's get builds inplace that will help us most in the short term and worry about 'ducts when we need them.


Finally, as we are in a delicate situation here where we could win or lose the game, perhaps it is best to put Kahn on the back burner until we get this under control. Most of us are in that game too but it presents a whole different set of obstacles and until we have this game under control, perhaps it's best stick to some discussion for a bit there.

Tomorrow, I'll do the MMing thing and see what I can come up with. Until then, any and all comments on this input would be most welcome. As I said at the beginning, I have been out of the loop for quite a while and reading the logs doesn't quite give me the feel for the game that I would like.If I'm missing something, please draw my attention to it. After Friday, I'm off work until September, so I'll have much more time to dedicate to the game. I really am sorry I had to take such a long break, but RL called.
 
Just a note, we have not actually lost any gold running at -29gpt, a bunch of deals expired in my last turn to put us in the red.

Strategy:
We all know that we are heading for a conflict with Shaka so let's deal with that issue first. We are not going to be in a position to crush him in one fell swoop and we absolutely need some coal. It seems to me that our first target should be Tyrana.

Once we get RP, we ought to be able to cut through Harran toward Tyrana from Pergamon in a turn or two. Shaka's Western cities are hopelessly corrupt so once his current units are spent, we should be able to take the former Hittite lands. I think we need to raze everything for slave purposes.

The goal would be to raze Tyrana and build a line of cities from the Pergamon lake to the coast. Once that was accomplished, we just defend that line until we take the Western territory, make peace and improve our land as fast as we can. We might want to take Alaca Huyuk if we can manage it, but it would be a secondary target along with Chondote and Hubishna.

There is enough no-man's-land in the West that we can cut the roads without declaring war with Cavs and be in a position to cut down his Western units as they end their movement. We will need to count squares and time it well as we should be looking for 0 losses defending the West. If we take minimal losses, WW won't be an issue.

To do this, I propose to change all builds to rifles for upgrade and change all cannon in corrupt towns to settlers. The settlers we have should be used to drive the wedge and we'll worry about re-settling land after. If we divert some of our workers to rail Tegea, Phonaeca, Mytilene, Sicyon and New Argos, our 6 cannon can be used in defense fo that area with rifles/infantry and a few Cav. The actual tactics will need to be worked out in more detail and perhaps discussed mid-set.
Having our own source of coal would help a lot, since the 20-turn deal I made will run out a couple turns into the set following yours. So the initial push should be for the coal. Just so I am clear, we are talking about beginning war as soon as we get Replaceable Parts?

Improvements:
How we use the slaves we have is a judgment call. My personal choice would be to set up the logistical network we need for war and then move back to improve. In general though, we need to rail our big producers, rail our medioum producers and water our farms. We have 93 slaves. I would suggest we focus on railing the core and then set up a team of 20 slaves to water and rail to the West, 20 for the North and the other 53 to rail the medium producers. I wouldn't be averse to dedicating more slaves to the farms as the faster tehy get up and running, the more we can dedicate to research.
Once we get RP our 90-odd slaves will become more efficient as well. I agree with the priorities - 1) Rail a network needed for war, 2) rail the core, 3) rail the next tier and so forth.

Builds:
Here are some seriously debatable issues. Why are we building Universal Suffrage? Wouldn't the Mil Academy or Heroic Epic suit our purposes more? WW isn't an issue if war tactics are effectively managed. Our two Cav armies will do some great havoc to Shaka and strengthening them would be great. 3 in the field and we would have the Pentagon as an option too yea? I think these are worthwhile builds because we will not be in a position to launch an overseas attack until we have transports anyway. I think switching to the Mil Academy is the best call.
We had talked of building something big, whether Mil Acad, HE, US, or ToE, so I started a pre-build. I changed it to US once we got Industrialization out of habit. I agree with you that US is not needed for Republic wars if you manage them correctly, I usually do not have problems in solo games with this. Personally, I am partial toward ToE, as this is a space game the techs are always nice to get, so I envisioned this US build as a pre-build for that. HE I have rarely found worthwhile to build. Military Academy presents an interesting possibility, but by the time we built it and then built an army, wouldn't we be past a Zulu war? What is the timeframe we are envisioning with dealing with Shaka?
 
The timing of the war is a key issue. We lost the opportunity when we got cavs ahead of Shaka but infantry and arty would give us a strong advantage and we'll lose it if we wait too long. If I can build the bank a bit, I think we would be in a position to take a good limited poke. We have 28 rifles at the moment that could be upgraded and another 4 or so that would be ready without rushing. I think 30 infantry and the 30+ cav ought to be enough to do what we want to do if we are organized and disciplined.

Infantry will defend well against cavs and with some arty, our cavs will be able to decimate his invasion force in a few turns. I think I could set us up for it and maybe even play the first turn or two of the war. I will certainly wait for consensus before doing anything. I think I will play 5 or so turns and pause and update. We do all need to be clear about the tactics as sudden WW would blow the whole play. There is a long border to defend and I think it will take some time to clear the western area after we take the first objective.

I hadn't thought about US as a pre-build, good call on that. As we are going for space, I agree that ToE is probably the best bet. However, if we get an MGL, the Mil A might be a better call than another army.
 
Correction: I was thinking we could get RP in 7 but it's Electricity so forget what I said about any war in my turns. I think it does mean that we can be fully ready for an immediate war once we get RP though.
 
After a long hiatus I'm off and quite excited about it.
Step one is to MM the empire. I don't necessarily feel it is absolutely needed but it's the best way I know to familiarize myself with the empire again and maybe I can get an extra sumpin' sumpin'.
Did the big tour and I have to say things are well in order. I could get a total of 4 beakers extra from the big MMing experiment and went to -30gpt (with no gold specialists).
Next step is to check out trades -- sorry about the anal quality of this round, but I want to make sure I have a good understanding of the lay of the land before any decisions have to be made.
We have 12 turns left of coal with the Ottomans and 7 turns left of lux trades. There is nothing I can see to be gained from the options on the table either. I've inherited a tight ship :D
After thinking about it, I decide that a few lost gold isn't worth the growth. Once we get those farms improved we will have the pop for instant reward and we'll get a ton of gold back the turns before Electricity comes in. Hire a couple of taxmen in places where there is still growth with no reward for working citizens and Mytilene, which has no more workable tiles, (-22gpt)

Off we go then.
1160AD T1
Make the worker turns first.
Found two towns where the settlers are. I'm not sure about this and we may need to rush some settlers when war comes but the unit upkeep will help and it does push the borders in a strategic way.
Pillage some roads in no-mans land.
Shuffle some troops to see what we have and see where our logistical weak points are.
Decide to trade Medicine to Willie for Free Artistry, WM, 43gpt and 30g. It puts us back in the black and evens up Willie and the Arabs

IBT Cleo and Punk Boy sign an MPP. Arabia is in Demo.

1170AD T2
Focus on our uncorrupted cities for rails. As I think of it though, I'm going to dedicate 24 workers to rail a single line to our outer borders for logistic reasons. I don't think we really need to rail to the actual border, but only the border cities until we get arty.
Finish pillaging the no-mans land. Shaka's cavs can't get past 1 square into our territory now so our cities are safe with the notable exceptions of New Argos, Mytilene and Tegea.
I've also grouped our troops together as I find them easier to keep track of that way. Border towns get 6 rifles per. MIs are in rax towns that are connected by rail.
It also looks like Shaka only has one source of salt in the desert near Cheju. Sit on that and he is stuck with LBs until he gets RP.

IBT A few builds came in. We now have 30 rifles and a number of MIs. We are also down to -18gpt so I'm moving off the military builds and focusing on factories in productive towns, courts where they will add benefit and cannon and settlers in corrupt towns.

1180AD T3
Continue railing and shuffling troops. It seems that our 30 rifles will just cover the border towns. I don't think it is a big deal as the open cities 2 rows back form the Zulu border will nicely draw Shaka in to be slaughtered.
Of more concern at present is our ability to move troops instantly between cities. The core is coming along well but I may have to divert more workers to get the movement we will need. I would feel a lot more comfortable with double the amount of slaves but nothing can be done about that at present.
Our lack of effective farms is a big hurt on the economy. I might peel off the stack of 6 to change some land next turn.

IBT Zzzz

1190AD T4
Same old, smae old. Rail and shuffle. No trades going.

IBT Athens factory comes in (3-turn rifles). A Uni is built and Electricity is now in 2.

1200AD T5
Full rail connection will be accomplished next turn and then we can focus on completing railing the core and re-improving.
No trades going.
I'm a bit worried about the economy but we are still okay.
Start mining the cow and some slight MMing to get Athens 2-turn rifles.
The ToE pre-build looks good. We should have enough for US at almost the same time we get Sci Method; although we might have to slow down production as it gets near.

IBT Arabs declare on the Turks. Babs ally with the Turks. A number of builds come in.

1210AD T6
Decide to build the bank and delay Electricity an extra turn. This means that US will need to be slowed down.
Deals expire next turn. I'm not quite sure how it will impact the economy. I'll have a think as I play this turn.
Reconsider and up the slider to take Electricity next turn (90g is not a big deal)
We will lose wines, gems, furs and 7gpt next turn. Hire a couple of clowns for safety.

IBT deals expire

1220AD T7
Sorry, I shouldn't have hired the clowns. That was an oversight from being out of the loop for so long. Can get wines, dyes and gems +5g for 11gpt and steam (all the other leaders have it) with Willie. Decide to go for it. Willie has Industrialization and the Turks and Arabs don't so wheel and deal.
Industrialism to the Turks for 173gpt and 362g (so much for my economic concerns)
Indust to the Arabs for 130gpt
Indust to Egypt for 49gpt, 12g and WM
Up the sci slider to 100% and RP in 6 (+199gpt)
Continue railing.

IBT Inca joins the war against the Arabs. Buy furs from the Arabs for 80gpt.

1230AD T8
163gpt and RP in 5. Seems we have the cash we need to continue military builds. I think we will be ready for war when RP comes in and the ToE seems set up as well.
With this new influx of funds, it seems to me that we are set up for military builds and will be well set up for our poke.
Continue railing. We are doing okay but we have a ton of important worker turns to do. About half of our tiles are railed, there are a number of unimproved tiles left and there are a bunch of tiles that need to be re-improved (mines to water in corrupt towns and water to mines on the second and third ring medium producing towns).

IBT Zzzzz

1240AD T9
Finally finished roading to the military poinst on the border.
The settler that was built I fortified on the rail network and think that the next 3 that are built should stay there too. We will need about 4 to take our coal in 1-2 turns and I think it is better to in-fill the gaps after we control the territory rather than push the borders. Let's let Shaka waste movement on unimproved land while we use worker turns improving the current empire. Once we have military control of the territory, we can start diverting workers to improve the land.

IBT Babs want to talk but decline as we can make any deals later and I don't want to make any decisions until we have time to dicker.
Shaka is in anarchy. I assume he will move to a more cash rich gov't and that helps us when we declare next round.

1250AD T10
Railing

Current military:
33 rifles
65 Cav
11 cannon
2 settlers
+150gpt and RP in 3

So that's it. There isn't much else to do at present.

I think I missed an opportunity earlier. I don't think it makes sense to aim to be more than 1 tech ahead. Once we are 2 ahead, trade away. When I got cash from Willie in turn 1, I got cash but left the Turks and Arabs tradable options. That was a mistake. I would have been better off trading away the tech for off tech for whatever I could get and bankrupting the AI. I also should have given up FA and tried to get more cash. In principle, I don't think we should look to be more than 1 tech up at least until we enter the MA and control much more land. It would have given us more cash and assuaged my economic worries: that could have changed some build decisions I made.

At any rate, we are looking at all of our core and most of our second tier cities with factories before we make our poke. We almost have all science improvements built in productive cities. I went ahead and started couts in cities up to 75% corruption (change at will): I personally feel they pay for themselves but know that it is a debatable point.

We have almost doubled our gold since I took the set and so I am fairly confident that we are in position to declare the turn after we get RP if everything is set up. Border towns are all connected and have 5+ rifles to defend. Only the most easterly of our cities are vulnerable to a 1-turn attack so units can be shuffled.

If one of the armies is moved to the square N of Hubishna, only Mytilene and Tegea could be attacked in 1 turn. The other army should proceed to Shaka's salt by the most direct route possible. With Phoncaea open, that should be Shaka's attack route. His units can be weakened with cannon (or arty if we have the cash) and then cut down with cav. I would expect 1-2 turns of defending before we would want to make the counter assault.

In the West, we may want to place some cav on the Mt SSW of New Ephesus and SW of New Mycenae (or even on that salt) to be in a good counter-punch position.

We have a skeleton rail network connecting all of our cities but that is all we should need. I think we are in position to now dedicate a small group to re-improving corrupt land while the rest focus on continuing to rail medium corrupt towns. I was using the CAII list of corruption to decide where to improve and considering the terrain as well. I don't see the point of wasting 36(?) slaves on a Mt at this point although there were times where the 24 slaves made sense for a hill in the core (i.e. getting Athens up to 40spt).

Shaka has been building like a fiend so we should expect to be hit hard for at least 3-4 turns before we can move stacks not protected by an army into his territory. However, with our 2 armies, we could use one to pillage his salt and whatever else came along while the other one moved our invasion force in (once the cannon have been upgraded). I think minimizing losses is key because of our production penalty and WW so using arty that don't have valid targets to destroy improvements and roads will be key. We want a safe support route and that will only be possible if there is only one road to defend.

Those are my thoughts. I just want to say that it was a really fun set. It wasn't too exciting but I inherited a tight empire and I feel back in the game now. Sorry to be away so long but the reintegration felt seamless.

Spoiler :

phaedo40


phaedo40

 

Attachments

Nice set Phaedo. You have a talent for the wheeling and dealing, I must say. Just a couple Q's
IBT Inca joins the war against the Arabs. Buy furs from the Arabs for 80gpt.
That's a lot. Was that because the lux gave us bonus happiness from the markets? How close are our citizens to rioting without that extra happy face? (I don't have the save in front of me since I'm at work)

We have almost doubled our gold since I took the set and so I am fairly confident that we are in position to declare the turn after we get RP if everything is set up. Border towns are all connected and have 5+ rifles to defend. Only the most easterly of our cities are vulnerable to a 1-turn attack so units can be shuffled.
Only if we have Rax in those border towns can we declare as soon as we get RP, we certainly need Infantry for defense, so we my need to build in a turn to send units back for upgrade. We'll need the cash to do so as well - remember, cannons --> Artillery is quite a bit, IIRC.

Current military:
33 rifles
65 Cav
11 cannon
2 settlers
With that force we are ready to take on Shaka. I'd feel better with a little more artillery support, of course, but you know me. :)

I'll check out the save tonight and look at the military plans for invasion. Good to have you back in the groove, Phaedo.
 
The lux was a fair bit but it gave us WLTKD in a couple of cities and, truth be told, I may have just got carried away with the trading. :blush: At least they didn't have it to trade amongst the others.

As for the raxes, we are all connected by rail we can upgrade the turn we get RP and declare the next one. I think that is probably more effective than rushing raxes in corrupt towns. I would like more arty too but if I recall, upgrading cannon is pricey so the rifle upgrades would be the priority and I think we can get 2-3 turn arty out of at least 3 cities. With the open cities we have, I wouldn't expect attacks on our border towns. The cannon can be placed to take a point off attacking forces without fear of being stolen and we have enough cav to take care of them until the arty gets built up.

I think we are set up for the invasion but it won't be a cakewalk. If we defend for a few turns though, we will be well set up to achieve our goals. I would anticipate about 6 turns to take our objectives and at least another 6 or so to take the West.

The US pre-build will need to be watched and there are a number of builds that could easily be switched to military ones without loss if that is needed. I'd rather not build cannon in productive towns though. We won't need that much arty for the assault and the cannon we have are enough for defense at this point.
 
Very nicely done, Phaedo. :thumbsup:

Now, if I may play 'Devil's Advocate' for a moment, I have a few thoughts:

Firstly, I'm a little concerned at an apparent lack of 'Plan B'; have we considered what we do in the event of us not having Rubber?

Secondly, have we adequately considered our reasons for war in the first place?

I see three possible reasons for war:

1) Resource aquisition.
2) Territorial expansion.
3) Elimination of a rival.

1) It seems to me that our requirement for Coal is pretty redundant as a reason; apart from being readily available for trade, we will probably be finished railing in 20 more turns. And if we don't want to pay for it, we can colonize this source:

Spoiler :
Zulu_Dawn_2.JPG


2) We currently have more land than we can RR or irrigate; territorial expansion would merely add more under-developed land to that queue - the timing makes no sense from this perspective.

3) IMO, the only valid reason in this particular case. There is no doubt that Shaka will need to be confronted at some stage, and with a mass upgrade of Rifles in the offing, we have almost reached the stage where it becomes do-able.

Thing is, I'm not sure that doing it because it's doable is good strategy; now we have (almost) reached RP's, and we have a Railnet up, we can take Shaka at any time of our chosing - quite simply, he is no longer a threat, so why not keep him around as a trading partner?

And as a bonus, Athens can be freed to build a CP then pre-build for Hoover's (good work on getting in a pre-build for ToE)
 
Colour-Sergeant Bourne at 'Rorke's Drift' said:
".....Zulu's to the SW, Sah!.........Thousands of 'em!"

The more I consider this, the more I think that the timing is wrong.

It might sound counter-intuitive but the AI is so much easier to defeat once they have RR's in place; with a few Combat Settlers and a stack of Arty, I would expect the whole Zulu empire to collapse in one turnset.

As things stand we would have to fight for every inch of fairly useless turf; WW would set in long before we reached the Zulu core. In short we would have a war in which we gain a little territory and achieve little else; and we would have to do it all over again later.

And we risk others being pulled in to the fray, costing us gold in unfinished trades or lux's.

As in real life, the reasons for war need to justify it's risks, and I don't think that there are any compelling reasons to justify this one.

Ironically, I would change my mind if we lack Rubber and Shaka has it.
 
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