Buce01: The Slavemaster

[Bucephalus]

The red dot looks like an excellent place to me place to me. I seem to remember my comment "It’s just a colony, but with the wheat we might get a mediocre worker pump"

It most certainly would - if we were allowed to build them in this variant.

Making peace with Babylon sounds good, but I think we should capture one more city from the Iroquois. The lost city combined with a few more obscure factors should get us a more juicy deal. I highly doubt they will put up a serious fight.

My only concern with that would be that it will mean another three turns until we make it to the MA's, making it more likely that our free tech will be known; but I admit it has it's attractions, not least of which would be the extra Slaves.
OTOH, the deal is not bad now - they will give Polytheism and Construction for 420g.

Researching Lit sounds reasonable, at this rate we probably have customers in Babylon and the Iroquois whether we're first to it or not.

We'll have a monopoly on it - I'd bet my house that the others are researching MA techs right now; I'm strongly in favour of researching it - in the six or seven turns that it would take we would only save 300g or so by not doing so.

Looked at like that it's Lit for 300g; nobody would sell it to us at that price, and it will have greater value than that as a monopoly tech.

 

[Miles Teg]

It most certainly would - if we were allowed to build them in this variant.

Now that's a comical lapse of memory. Old habits die hard I guess

 

[Elephantium]

I'm in favor of self-researching Lit; it has good trade value.

I'm also in favor of peace with Hiawatha now. OTOH, if there's any chance we can make deals for Feudalism, Monotheism, *and* Engineering all on the same turn, we could get a nice science slingshot when we enter the MA. Unfortunately, I doubt we have that much purchasing power.

As for my dotmaps, I assumed that we'd be starting our ICS specialist farm territory in the ring we're about to settle - with the exception of the red dot near the big lake - that city will have an extra wheat compared to the position 1NE from a previous dotmap.

 

[Bucephalus]

As for my dotmaps, I assumed that we'd be starting our ICS specialist farm territory in the ring we're about to settle - with the exception of the red dot near the big lake - that city will have an extra wheat compared to the position 1NE from a previous dotmap.

I think this ring is still close enough to the core for cxxc spacing.

My problem with the red dot is that although it gains a wheat, it also gains several more coastal tiles than the previous one that you mentioned.

Either way though, it has potential as a food rich site.

Any thoughts about where we might position the FP?

 

[Bucephalus]

We're still waiting for CivA to check in but we appear to have majority votes for researching Lit, and for peace with Hiawatha; peace with Hammurabi looks like a concencus.

 

[CivActuary]

I'm back from my trip and am downloading the save and reading the turnlog. I should have comments either tonight or tomorrow morning - it's mom's day after all, and I probably should do something with the mother of my children

 

[Elephantium]

Rhodes or Marathon both have good potential as high-shields, high-commerce cities. I would lean a little more towards Marathon because it has more riverside tiles.

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm back from my trip and am downloading the save and reading the turnlog. I should have comments either tonight or tomorrow morning - it's mom's day after all, and I probably should do something with the mother of my children

OK, mate - it should keep the little woman happy for another year.

 

[Bucephalus]

Rhodes or Marathon both have good potential as high-shields, high-commerce cities. I would lean a little more towards Marathon because it has more riverside tiles.

Both good choices - I lean slightly towards Rhodes for it's higher shield potential, and it has only one fewer riverside tile.

That's two for Marathon, though.

Any thoughts on the FP, MTeg?

 

[Bucephalus]

My thoughts on city placement:

Spoiler :

 

[CivActuary]

Babylon lands a spear next to defenseless Miletosis

I noticed the units left on the peninsula had been moved out. Question - should we keep a defensive unit in coastal cities?

I move the troops in, using the horse to snag a worker.

Interturn. Horseman heats one bowman, runs from another, and is killed by a spear

There's no need to risk our units to capture their workers like this - they will just retreat to the cities and we'll get them there.

- Is Sparta off track again?

- Re: caving - Our military is still weak compared to the Zulu - would we be willing to risk war with them when we were already at war with 2 neighbors?

- I agree with getting immeadiate peace with both Babylon and the Iros to get us into the MA, and then starting research on Lit. We get cheap libraries, too. Our starting tech might not be enough to get us Republic though - everyone else has been in the MA for a while.

- I would go Rhodes for the FP - less of a conflict with the Hittites (and Marathon has a 2.3% flip chance or thereabouts).

 

[Miles Teg]

I noticed the units left on the peninsula had been moved out. Question - should we keep a defensive unit in coastal cities?

We have one Hoplite there last time I checked.

There's no need to risk our units to capture their workers like this - they will just retreat to the cities and we'll get them there.

True, I wasn't thinking properly, no harm done though. It killed one unit and damaged another.

Just wondering, would it be worth it to take Republic from the Iroquois, and use that and whatever else we can get to trade with Babylon?

 

[Bucephalus]

- Re: caving - Our military is still weak compared to the Zulu - would we be willing to risk war with them when we were already at war with 2 neighbors?

For 20 gold or so, no; at the cost of risking our rep, yes. Zulu are a fair way off, and would have talked peace in 6 turns; we would have been able to buy them off with gold before we had needed to fight.

- I agree with getting immeadiate peace with both Babylon and the Iros to get us into the MA, and then starting research on Lit. We get cheap libraries, too. Our starting tech might not be enough to get us Republic though - everyone else has been in the MA for a while.

It rather depends on what our free tech is, but whatever it is that is one more reason to go for Literature.

- I would go Rhodes for the FP - less of a conflict with the Hittites (and Marathon has a 2.3% flip chance or thereabouts).

OK, noted.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, Phaedo, you are up.

We have decisions on everything except the placing of the FP.

Peace with Babs and Iroquois - you can get the techs as I suggested, or work it another way if you find a better alternative - I do suggest you use lump sum though.

Set research to Literature; once you have it, try to trade it as best you can but the priority would be to get Republic. The alternative would be to use our free tech to get it - add gold if need be.

I think you will need to use your best judgement regarding placing new cities.

Maybe it's best to leave the FP until we are a Republic - it might be easier to reach an agreement at that time.

Strategically place our military to cover any eventualities.

Switch builds to Markets, Temples, Libraries - whatever is appropriate - we need to prepare for Republican Govt.

 

[Phaedo]

Okay, I got it (in both ways). Probably will be able to play tomorrow.

 

[Phaedo]

So I sat down to play and some stuff came up. I'm pretty sure it's a good option but it involves a lot of trades and some commitments so I thought I ought to get team approval before continuing. Here's the log and save thus far:

T0 250AD
Peace it is. Attack and kill the Bab settler pair before peace.
No change in the price of things. It was 2 more slaves though
Do Buce's trade suggestions. 604g in the bank and 93gpt

We got Mono.
We can get Rep from Hittite for Mono and 10g!
We can get Feud 217g and 2gpt from China for Mono
We can get Engineering from Zulu for Mono 3gpt and 561g
We can get 420g and silks for Mono from the Iros
And that doesn't include what Hammy will pay for Rep.

So we paid 620g. We could pay another 571g and 3 gpt, receive 637g and 2 gpt to get to parity. So we profit from this deal by 46g without including what we get from the Babs. So we'll end up with about 650g with 93gpt (before research). 3gpt to Zulu isn't so bad. GPT isn't affected by trade routes and I don't think we'll be going to war with them in the next 20 turns with them. It all has to happen before the IBT though so there is no inter-trading of goods or information.

I'm pretty confident about the trade but I wanted to check with the team before I made it.

 

[Elephantium]

Go for it!

 

[Bucephalus]

So I sat down to play and some stuff came up. I'm pretty sure it's a good option but it involves a lot of trades and some commitments so I thought I ought to get team approval before continuing. Here's the log and save thus far:

T0 250AD
Peace it is. Attack and kill the Bab settler pair before peace.
No change in the price of things. It was 2 more slaves though
Do Buce's trade suggestions. 604g in the bank and 93gpt

We got Mono.
We can get Rep from Hittite for Mono and 10g!
We can get Feud 217g and 2gpt from China for Mono
We can get Engineering from Zulu for Mono 3gpt and 561g
We can get 420g and silks for Mono from the Iros
And that doesn't include what Hammy will pay for Rep.

So we paid 620g. We could pay another 571g and 3 gpt, receive 637g and 2 gpt to get to parity. So we profit from this deal by 46g without including what we get from the Babs. So we'll end up with about 650g with 93gpt (before research). 3gpt to Zulu isn't so bad. GPT isn't affected by trade routes and I don't think we'll be going to war with them in the next 20 turns with them. It all has to happen before the IBT though so there is no inter-trading of goods or information.

I'm pretty confident about the trade but I wanted to check with the team before I made it.

I'm not sure it will happen as you think; the first time Mono is traded, it will lose it's monopoly value - the trade is instantly 'known' even in the IBT.

I would trade with China for Feudalism first, unless Zulu have a monopoly on Engineering; if they do, I'd trade Zulu first, then you have two second-hand techs to trade to China or Hittites.

But you're in the chair.

 

[CivActuary]

Do we want to tie ourselves to the Iros for 20 turns in a deal for silks?

 

[Phaedo]

I was just giving the situation where they would give all they could. Things have already changed but it was a benchmark. The silk thing was just meant to show that they wouldn't trade any more tech and couldn't even come up with 1gpt.