Buce01: The Slavemaster

[Bucephalus]

As I mentioned earlier, I think we need to agree on the VC that we are going for before we go much further, as it affects strategic considerations.

This is the way preferences have so far been stated:

Buce : SS
CivA : SS
Phaedo : Conquest/Dom
Tusker : ?
MTeg : ?

I'll expand on my reasoning: my problem with Conquest is that the result becomes a foregone conclusion, long before the game is over.

Once you reach a certain point it becomes just a case of going through the motions, and interest wains and sloppiness sets in (Phaedo 01 was a classic example of this).

It would also detract from the variant, IMO, since by definition Conquest would give plenty of Slaves.

SS OTOH, would require a lot more skill; there would have to be more focus on trading and maintaining relationships with the other nations, while all the time needing to increase our supply of Slaves as needs arise.

We would be unlikely to be runaway tech leaders, so getting the SS off the ground first would be a challenge that would maintain our interest right to the very last.

Quite simply, I feel it would be more difficult, a bigger challenge and therefore more fun - and that is why I play the game.

 

[Miles Teg]

I'm going to say SS would be good. Haven't done that since chieftain.

 

[Elephantium]

I was going to suggest 100k, but it looks like the majority is up for SS. Do SGs ever use histographic as the VC?

 

[Bucephalus]

Do SGs ever use histographic as the VC?

I've never known one to.

Alpha Centauri it is then.

 

[Bucephalus]

Bear with me, guys; I'm part way through this set but I'm not sure if I'll be able to play any more tonight - my daughter is proving difficult to get to sleep, and the Missus is on a night shift.

 

[Elephantium]

Take your time. I've been working on my solo game (huge 'pelago, max civs, Emp, playing as England, peaceful trader/builder route up until modern times - then once all techs are in, gift all techs to trailing civs and start the warfare!

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre turn:

Cycle through cities, changing builds,

Make some deals:

Iron to Babylon for 13gpt + 124g;
Iron to Hittites for Incense, 15gpt + 49g;
Spices + 15gpt to Iroquois for Silks;
Upgrade Swords;
Shuffle units to the border or to be disbanded;

IBT:

The rampaging Zulu's have destroyed the Koreans;

1)

Worker turns only (still in Anarchy);
I'm not going to list Worker turns, neither do I expect anyone else to; we are all capable of assigning Workers properly, and it's not a training game.

Iroquois now have Invention - still no deal available

2)

Disband Cats;
Upgrade more Swords;
We are now a Republic;
Switch research to Chivaly (13)
Hurry FP in Rhodes;
Rush Temple in Marathon to get the extra Ivory;
Galley completes in Ithaca;

3)

Galley completes in Troy;
More upgrades;
More disbands;
FP completes in Rhodes;
Up Science to 70% - Chivalry in 9;

4)

Athens Mkt > Library;
More Disbands;
Science to 80% - Chivalry in 7;
Zulu's have Theology;

5)

Dutch complete Leo's;

Thessalonika Temple > Aquaduct;
Forest chop at Rhodes reveals BG - looking better and better;
Begin suicide runs;

6)

Delphi Mkt > Library;
Both Curraghs sink;
One source of Iron becomes exhausted
Zulu and Hittites beat us to Chivalry;

7)

Sell Ivory to Zulu for 15gpt;
Sell Ivory to Babylon for 5 gpt;
Note: on both these deals I could have taken a small amount of lump sum gold as well - to do so risks our rep; please remember this when making trades
Miletos Galley > Galley;

8)

Athens Library > Cathedral;
Sparta Temple > Aquaduct;

9)

Delphi Library > Aquaduct;
Begin new suicide runs;
Zulu and Hittites want Literature + silly money for Theology or Invention;
Learn Chivalry;

10)

One suicide Galley sinks, the second spots purple borders;
Sell Chivalry to Babylon for 17gpt + 5g;

 

[Bucephalus]

We've got some choices to make regarding research:

We are behind both Zulu and Hittites with Theology and Invention; Iroquois also have Invention.

I took screenies of all possible deals but my PC crashed and I've lost them, but I can remember roughly what they were;

Both Zulu & Hittites wanted Lit and all our treasury (540g) + gpt for Theology or Invention.

The Zulu gpt requirements were quite a bit lower on both techs - they wanted 42gpt-ish for Theology, 55gpt-ish for Invention; this suggests that Hittites are currently researching Lit, IMO.

We could self-research either in about 7-8 turns; at zero science we are making about 235g.

That means that each tech would cost us about 2,000g if self-researched.

Clearly it would be cheaper to trade for them; do we want to give Hittites/Zulu the money though?

We have a Suicide Galley in sight of Portugese and Ottoman borders; it needs one more turn to reach them, but is currently on an Ocean square. If it sinks, we have another nearly in place to try and another off the Babylon coast.

So what course are we to take?

Thoughts and opinions, please.

 

[Elephantium]

Can we sell Invention to the Iro?

I think we should wait one turn, hoping to get contact with the Portuguese and the Ottomans with the suicide galley. If it makes it, we're in a better trading situation.

If not, well, we can still trade with the Zulu.

Also, would it be viewed as unfairly exploitive to trade with the Hittites for gpt, then goad them into declaring war on us? (if that's even possible, given our troop deployments, etc)

Edit: I guess I'm up next, so "Got it". However, I'll wait for more discussion before playing.

 

[Bucephalus]

Can we sell Invention to the Iro.

No, they have it; I'm sure I mentioned it.

Also, would it be viewed as unfairly exploitive to trade with the Hittites for gpt, then goad them into declaring war on us? (if that's even possible, given our troop deployments, etc)

I wouldn't consider it so; however, it would be easier said than done to goad them in to a fight, and we would be stuck with a poor deal.

Also, we need a period of stability to build our infastructure; we need Aquaducts, Mkts and Libraries.

Finally, we currently have no Iron; I traded two then the third exhausted.

 

[CivActuary]

You mentioned that the Iros have Invention, but do they have Theology, and could we trade that around to them to get back some of our money?

Are we still paying unit support?

Let's play builder for a while. (I guess without iron we don't have much choice, unless we would build units to be upgraded once the deals are up)

Where is the save posted?

 

[Bucephalus]

You mentioned that the Iros have Invention, but do they have Theology, and could we trade that around to them to get back some of our money?

My thoughts exactly; buy Theology from Shaka, then trade with Hiawatha for Invention.

Are we still paying unit support?

Some, but the economy is in good shape now, and will only get better as more Mkts, Ducts and Libraries come online.

Let's play builder for a while. (I guess without iron we don't have much choice, unless we would build units to be upgraded once the deals are up)

Oh, we have a choice alright; you don't think I'd leave us defenceless, do you? However, building is the correct choice at the moment, IMO.

Pointy stick research is always an option, but it's important to have a choice, and building infastructure gives us that.

Where is the save posted?

Er........here

 

[Elephantium]

Oops, I meant to ask about Theology, not Invention.

Also, I guess my "got it" was premature (I was going to download the save this morning, but now I see that it isn't posted!) - but I'll be able to download a posted save tonight.

 

[Bucephalus]

Oops, I meant to ask about Theology, not Invention.

Also, I guess my "got it" was premature (I was going to download the save this morning, but now I see that it isn't posted!) - but I'll be able to download a posted save tonight.

We cross-posted - it's in the post before yours.

 

[CivActuary]

Oh, we have a choice alright; you don't think I'd leave us defenceless, do you? However, building is the correct choice at the moment, IMO.

No, with the upgrading you did I doubt we are defenceless, but if we were going to war sooner more military spending would probably be good.

 

[Bucephalus]

No, with the upgrading you did I doubt we are defenceless, but if we were going to war sooner more military spending would probably be good.

Babylon and Iroquois are still busy beating up on each other (on our turf) and would be easy targets if we so chose, and Hittites would be similarly easy to deal with since we have the financial muscle to ally Shaka - and vice versa.

But this game is all about timing, and right now it's time to build and contact the other continent(s), IMO.

 

[Elephantium]

Why are we building so many temples?

 

[Bucephalus]

Why are we building so many temples?

Take a look at the Culture graph; with so little culture in comparison to the others, we already have a flip risk in several cities.

They are also a prerequesite for Cathedrals, which we will also need if we are to work all of our tiles without using the lux slider.

I am well aware that in some quarters building them is frowned upon; it is not a view that I necessarily share.

 

[Elephantium]

Sound reasons. I think we should generally give precedence to Libraries, though:

* Most cities are small enough that the boost from the Temple won't be needed for 20-30 turns.
* Libraries cost us 40 shields (Scientific), Temples cost 60.
* Markets currently give the same happiness boost that Temples would give.

In the long-term, of course, we'll want both to avoid culture flips. For now, I think a few Libs are the better bargain for many cities.

 

[Elephantium]

The galley sank, but the local deals haven't changed at all. How much of a hurry are we to trade?