[NFP] *BUG* - filtering reveals hidden tech/civics.

[Lily_Lancer]

Today I learn a trick from @DanQuayle . I think this deserves a separate thread. I don't think many people know this. I myself don't know this before.


Wise use of filtering-- Filtering will filter out unrevealed techs, revealing them.

For example, selecting "food" will filter "seasteads" in the future era even before you reveal it!

Spoiler :

By using this, we can easily conclude the location, prereqs of "seasteads" at T0, although it is not revealed at that time.

Spoiler :

Filtering "improvements" will highlight both predictive systems and seasteads for you, as we already know the location of seasteads, the other one must be "predictive systems".

Filtering "Production" will highlight cybernetics, predictive systems and smart materials. As we already know "predictive systems", the other two must be Cybernetics and Smart Materials.


This trick can also be used on civic trees, and in "tech & civic shuffle mode".


Moderator Action: Interesting find - moved to Bugs forum --NZ

 

[criZp]

Didn't some guy on here throw together a mod that reveals all the random techs right at the start?

 

[pokiehl]

Isn’t the game easy enough for you?

Didn't some guy on here throw together a mod that reveals all the random techs right at the start?

That was me, yep . If you’re going to go so far as to use this exploit, you may as well just use the mod.

 

[Minou]

Interesting find. One of my least favorite things about the game is that the randomness of the late game tech tree can add or subtract 10 turns from your victory time. The "surprise" part is fun, but it would be better if the Lasers were always last so it didn't ruin the ability to compare times.

I suppose this is a bug, but it feels kind of like using the Settler lens to spot AI or CS borders....

 

[Minou]

Tested this out. Really interesting discovery by @DanQuayle. I guess though there is no way to decipher where Offworld Mission is, but (I think ) you always need Smart Materials to unlock Offworld Mission so you have a pretty decent idea of at least the best case and worst case scenario for the end of the tech tree.

As far as I understand there are 14 techs you may or may not need to get to Offworld Mission, which break down as follows:

These five can be boosted (significant because they can be essentially "skipped" by Babylon.
Electricity
Advanced Ballistics
Combined Arms
Computers
Robotics

These nine cannot be boosted (technically they can with a Spy, but I find the AI never has them in time on fast runs). I don't think I have never had Predictive Systems be a prerequisite in my games, but I assume that is random chance).
Nuclear Fission
Nuclear Fusion
Guidance Systems (technically can be boosted but never once have I seen an AI fighter in a fast game)
Lasers
Advanced AI
Advanced Power Cells
Predictive Systems
Cybernetics
Seasteads

Telecommunications and Stealth never needed (which is why I always end up getting them with bad luck by Oxford!)

This leads me to wonder for purposes of fast Babylon games is it possible to boost a tech that can only be boosted by Spy or Great Scientist from a hut? I often try to save 3-4 huts in remote parts of the map for the end game hoping for this, but always end up getting something like +1pop, 50g, and XP. I have never gotten a boost to something like Nuclear Fusion or Advanced AI but I am not sure if that is just random luck or if such techs are ineligible for hut boosts.

 

[DanQuayle]

Tested this out. Really interesting discovery by @DanQuayle. I guess though there is no way to decipher where Offworld Mission is, but (I think ) you always need Smart Materials to unlock Offworld Mission so you have a pretty decent idea of at least the best case and worst case scenario for the end of the tech tree.

Offworld Mission is always the tech in the second last column.
Smart Materials is not necessarily a prerequisite tech of Offworld Mission

 

[Minou]

Ah, thanks. Never really paid attention to that. I just checked my current game and looks like I every Atomic pre-req plus 3 of the Future techs for Offworld Mission then. Bummer!

I tried playing around with this some more and it seems the number revealed by clicking on Offworld Mission doesn't really tell too much without looking more carefully. I have seen it be up to 70 and as low as 35, but the 35 value was misleadingly low since I could see 24 other techs not on the beeline to Offworld Mission that would be needed to get to Satellites (including Satellites itself). So it would really be 67, still a minimum three turn difference assuming you hit 1 tech per turn near the end of the tree. This assume Smart Materials is a pre-req in the 35 tech path, if not the path would be a little longer.

So I am thinking what is important is not the number when you click Offworld Mission but how many of those 14 potentially skippable techs are included in the paths of the two Smart Materials candidates and Offworld Mission?

 

[DanQuayle]

The fastest tech trees will always be those where Smart Material and Offworld Mission only require Nanotechnology (and not Nuclear Fusion and Robotics).

 

[HiRezAudio]

Isn’t the game easy enough for you?



That was me, yep . If you’re going to go so far as to use this exploit, you may as well just use the mod.

Or even simpler, just leave it alone?