Politics and always existed from ancient Greece to Rome, to the modern age, the marriage policy of the Habsburg and Bourbons was also political Moderna,: factions always existed only change over time , from the Blues to the Byzantine greens to the Jacobins and Girondins in the French revolution, to thehit is a set of political , historical economic factors that create and influence governments and nations . Especially within a nation that must be simulated, then this is reflected abroad , but it is the internal events that affect a nation
What should the Civ VII political system be like?
- Thread starter Graalknight
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vorlon_mi
Emperor
What I mean is that it is more important the internal aspect of politics and factions than the external aspect example: Russia and the construction of communism, politics, internal collectivization of the economy, industrial planning, etc then this has consequences on the foreign : through the 3 , international, the commintern and the politics of the popular front, in Germany and France
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Yes, you've explained that more than 8 times. Do you really believe that we don't understand you?
Why do you keep making the same points?
Why do you keep making the same points?
pokiehl
Deity
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It's actually dozens and dozens of times that he's reiterated himself. Practically every single post he's made over the last few months. 8 is just the number of posts with that peculiar phrasing "must be simulated."
GeneralZIft
Enigma
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Sometimes I feel like I'm swimming in an ocean of history majors in this forum 
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Most of them Carping about the game . . .Sometimes I feel like I'm swimming in an ocean of history majors in this forum
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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But I'm not a history major ?
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Technically not a history major, just a minor, but also, given the massive overlap in classes between History and East Asian Studies classes, I pretty much *did* meet the requirements of the History major - I just had to chose one of the two to put on the piece of paper they gave me and happened to chose the other. XD
(I had been studying for an actual double major program in Asian Studies and History, but that one had an additional requirement over either of the majors - a second-tier class in your chosen Asian language, and I was NOT good at my chosen Asian language, so I had to pivot to a minor/major combo)
(I had been studying for an actual double major program in Asian Studies and History, but that one had an additional requirement over either of the majors - a second-tier class in your chosen Asian language, and I was NOT good at my chosen Asian language, so I had to pivot to a minor/major combo)
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The Battle of Adrianople in 378 AD for example had important consequences for the development of history for the displacement of the Visigoths in Pannonia and for the purchase of barbarian generals in the imperial army . So the story is not Moderna cause and effect but a rock thrown into the sea that creates waves a modern game should simulate similar consequences!
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Sorry, but the consequences of Adrianopol have been much exaggerated. While it did allow the Goths to remain a separate group within the borders of the Empire, they left no imprint on the areas in the Balkans because they moved on within a century and due to later migrations into and through the area by Bulgars and other Slavic groups, much later control of the area by Eastern Roman and then Ottomans. You would be hard put to find any Gothic traces even 200 years later, let alone in any 'modern' period.
And as for Barbarians in the Roman military, that had already started over a century earlier, when the plagues of Cyprian and Antoninus caused a manpower crisis in the Roman army in the early and mid- 3rd century. In fact, in Valen's army at Adrianopol there were Sarmatian, Frank, and Iberian (Caucasus tribes, not Spanish) commanders present, none of them 'native' Romans.
The 'waves' from Adrianopolis have been long gone for over a millennia and a half and barely reached the Medieval period, even less the Modern Era.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Do you understand that this does not answer my question?
For dozens of posts, you have given many examples of what should be simulated. We understand.
Asking again... do you really believe that we don't understand you? Do you really believe that giving another example will make your point any clearer?
No I understand everything but I don't see a constructive discussion about a modern simulation : I only hear talk of random civilisations, random leaders, leaders' clothes, buildings, but no new mechanics, new advances in the ai, game issues such as change of government and dynamics, a revolution, and leaders and the fact that the player governs millennia, a dynamic realistic economy, from ancient to contemporary times, the means, the industrial revolution for example the loom, the steam engine to the first railway, the simulation of nationalism in 1800, the age of colonialism to the race for Africa
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FishFishFish
Warlord
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Civilization was, is, and probably always will be a strategy game that draws on history for its theme and mechanics. The notion that it's supposed to be a super in depth historical simulation is just not true.
The game can no longer function with the dynamics of 1991 new mechanics are needed
vorlon_mi
Emperor
That is an assertion, without any evidence other than your own strong feelings.
I would point to the evidence of millions of dollars in sales, thousands of users on Steam and other platforms, and widespread discussion and name recognition across many online meda as counter-examples. The game franchise does function quite well.
In an earlier post, you noted that you do not play Civ6. I would present the feature set of Civ6 plus all the content added is a significant increase in mechanics since Civ1. I do hope for some new mechanics in Civ7. I engage with others to have a DIALOG about them, not a MONOLOGUE which is dominated by my own throughts.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Going ALL the way back to the OP, on page 1, I had to smile a bit. First, the author gives a thoughtful, detailed treatment of how government systems have been implemented in the games in the Civ franchise. Next, a proposal which shares some (not all) of the key points that our verbose colleague has made: the will of the people expressed as demands for changes in policies or government elements. I hadn't read it thoroughly until today. I would welcome the "feedback" of the governed as a possible feature in the political system in Civ7. It should not be SO tied to real world history that it affects the fun of the game.
Way back in post 249, I articulated a similar idea with fine-grained attributes for each of the game's population points, where they might revolt or might need to be mollified/satisfied. All through this forum, many people have advocated for fine-grained choices in governments and policies. Several people noted the differences between civics, ideologies, economic policies & models, and leadership models.
Each of these items, indeed, each of these choices affects the fun that players have with the game. Sid intended the franchise to have the player make interesting decisions. Player agency is a key part of all video games. With too much complexity, new players whose first Civ game is Civ7 will face a learning curve. With too little variety in the civics or policies that may be chosen, the political system becomes much less important. My favorite example is Civ3, where most players make exactly one government change in any one playthrough.
Way back in post 249, I articulated a similar idea with fine-grained attributes for each of the game's population points, where they might revolt or might need to be mollified/satisfied. All through this forum, many people have advocated for fine-grained choices in governments and policies. Several people noted the differences between civics, ideologies, economic policies & models, and leadership models.
Each of these items, indeed, each of these choices affects the fun that players have with the game. Sid intended the franchise to have the player make interesting decisions. Player agency is a key part of all video games. With too much complexity, new players whose first Civ game is Civ7 will face a learning curve. With too little variety in the civics or policies that may be chosen, the political system becomes much less important. My favorite example is Civ3, where most players make exactly one government change in any one playthrough.
aieeegrunt
Emperor
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- Jan 8, 2021
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- 1,360
A super in depth simulator would have awful game balance. Often your spawn would completely screw you over.
GeneralZIft
Enigma
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2019
- Messages
- 262
>Spawn in South America
>Invaded by unforeseeable Spanish
>Disease wipes out entire continent
Damn. Gotta reset.
