Bugs in Civilization 4

[pjdodd]

I wonder how many bugs will be in the first release of Civilization IV?

 

[warpstorm]

I'm sure there will be some. No software project of that size and complexity escapes with none.

 

[h4ppy]

Over ten, under fifty.

 

[lordex]

Are you saying "outsourced rush-job" could have produced a better CIV3? Come on, it's not that bad...

This also reminds me of that famous quote: "my code is bug-free as far as I know."

 

[Flak]

I do fear that this game is now officially being rushed. It's unfortunate. They've already had to cut a few corners (SDK, Multiplayer Pitboss, unmentioned features (?)). I just hope that they are concentrating on core non-SDK-level-or-higher type stuff, so that the game is manageable, meaning we can fix a lot fo the bugs ourselves. We'll see. The release of Civ III probably set a milestone in the gaming industry for exactly how not to let a game go out to the general public. The initial release wasn't even suitable for a free demo, much less a high end $50 game. I don't think the reputation of Firaxis has completely recovered from that fiasco. I'm hoping that they are seeing this as an opportunity for redemption.

We'll see....

 

[invoke41]

Not really an objective poll as the amount of bugs are no indication on how playable it is.

For instance you can have one bug that kills the whole application or you can have 100 bugs that have no impact.

 

[Stilgar08]

I still doubt Firaxis will do the same mistake with civ4 as they did with civ3. This project certainly isn't a "rushed job", IMO and therefore I voted for 1-10 (not including typo's ). It won't be perfect, because it never is...

 

[Ozymandous]

I wonder how many bugs will be in the first release of Civilization IV?

Bugs total? Or "show stopping" kinds? There's a difference but unless someone has actually put their money where their mouth is and coded an application, they wouldn't know that.

 

[SpikeIt]

Let's be realistic. Bug counts will at least be in the 10-50 range. Most bugs will be the usual grammar and/or spelling glitches. Let's just hope there are less than 5 major game affecting bugs and that they all can easily be fixed with a patch.

 

[Ozymandous]

I do fear that this game is now officially being rushed. It's unfortunate. They've already had to cut a few corners (SDK, Multiplayer Pitboss, unmentioned features (?)). I just hope that they are concentrating on core non-SDK-level-or-higher type stuff, so that the game is manageable, meaning we can fix a lot fo the bugs ourselves. We'll see. The release of Civ III probably set a milestone in the gaming industry for exactly how not to let a game go out to the general public. The initial release wasn't even suitable for a free demo, much less a high end $50 game. I don't think the reputation of Firaxis has completely recovered from that fiasco. I'm hoping that they are seeing this as an opportunity for redemption.

We'll see....

Hmm, Diakatana (sp?), MOO3, Pools of Radiance and a host of other games came out far, far worse than Civ3. As far as the game being "rushed" because every single bell and whistle isn't included in shipping... As long as they left the hooks in for the things to fit in later and ofer them for free download and they don't impact the basic underlying functionality then I don't see a problem with it.

Firaxus hasn't even come close to the soiled reputation that some other, even bigger/well kown development companies have for releasing shoddy products.

 

[Flak]

Hmm, Diakatana (sp?), MOO3, Pools of Radiance and a host of other games came out far, far worse than Civ3.

Were any of these game as big as any game in the Civilization series?

A LOT more fortunes are riding on Civ IV than any of these games, excepting perhaps MOO3, and that's debatable.

As far as the game being "rushed" because every single bell and whistle isn't included in shipping...

Sorry, I've got to disagree with this premise. Just because something is cut from a game doesn't mean it's a bell or a whistle. I know I'm not going to invest any significant amount of time into multiplayer until the Pitboss is in. I've seen that sentiment echoed here by many. The game is incomplete without full multiplayer support. In fact, just about any game released these days without multiplayer is incomplete.

But for me, the SDK was going to be my main focus for Civ IV. Well that's cut now. Also we don't know what other functionality was left out due to time constraints. What ideas did Firaxis have, that are now back on the drawing board or implementation back-burner waiting for an expansion?

As long as they left the hooks in for the things to fit in later and ofer them for free download and they don't impact the basic underlying functionality then I don't see a problem with it.

This is where Firaxis has a real opportunity to take advantage of a good design. If the game is designed into various layers with solid interfaces then, in theory, many of the kind of tragic bugs that were found in the initial release of Civ III could be fixed with mods that we the players can do ourselves. This means that the engineers/testers can concentrate at this point on just making sure the fundamental core and mechanics are sound, and make sure the every possible modding situation can be handled (both limit-wise and interface-wise). This would actually be fantastic!

Firaxus hasn't even come close to the soiled reputation that some other, even bigger/well kown development companies have for releasing shoddy products.

I said that Firaxis took a big reputation hit, and they did. And it's hurt them, but no so bad. There are other companies who through their own actions have gotten themselves into worse shape. If Civ IV mimics Civ III on release quality, then Firaxis may be joining that illustrious group shortly.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

I do fear that this game is now officially being rushed. It's unfortunate. They've already had to cut a few corners (SDK, Multiplayer Pitboss, unmentioned features (?)). I just hope that they are concentrating on core non-SDK-level-or-higher type stuff, so that the game is manageable, meaning we can fix a lot fo the bugs ourselves. We'll see. The release of Civ III probably set a milestone in the gaming industry for exactly how not to let a game go out to the general public. The initial release wasn't even suitable for a free demo, much less a high end $50 game. I don't think the reputation of Firaxis has completely recovered from that fiasco. I'm hoping that they are seeing this as an opportunity for redemption.

We'll see....

Your right about the pitboss feature that was to ship with Civ4, But the SDK was never going to ship with the game at release! They said from the begining that it would be available a couple of months after release.

From Civrules Pre-release info.

AI Software Developer’s Kit (or SDK): For even more advanced modders, Firaxis is offering the entire AI and Game Code of the game. Here, players can change literally everything about the game they want. They can even create and write their own game types to pretty much building their own game, loosely based on Civilization. Literally everything can be changed. It has been said that it is very, vary rare for such an amazing modding level to be released for a strategy game. The AI SDK will be available shortly after the game ships, in early 2006. Modders can do anything short of changing the basic graphics engine, the core Civ engine, or the network code.

 

[Pembroke]

Hmm, Diakatana (sp?), MOO3, Pools of Radiance

Oh my god! MOO3? What if it will come out as another MOO3!?!?

Bugs galore, games crash, research jams, diplomacy is unfathomable. Bugfixes follow bugfixes. Finally they run out of money and suspend the whole thing. Ozymandous, oh Ozymandous, why did you do this?? Now I will have nightmares of researching the wheel forever...

 

[mossmonster]

Oh my god! MOO3? What if it will come out as another MOO3!?!?

Bugs galore, games crash, research jams, diplomacy is unfathomable. Bugfixes follow bugfixes. Finally they run out of money and suspend the whole thing. Ozymandous, oh Ozymandous, why did you do this?? Now I will have nightmares of researching the wheel forever...

You have spelled out my greatest fear, as I truly loved (and still play) MOO2 and had high hopes for MOO3, only to have them brutally crushed by an unplayable, bug-ridden, micro-management hell that didn't deserve to bear the MOO name.

Please let's all hope our trust in Firaxis to produce a quality game is warranted and that the civ series doesn't go down the MOO path. Being fair so far the previews look good and we do deserve to wait until we've actually played it...

 

[WildWeazel]

Who cares, I probably won't play more than half a game before modding it

 

[josephstalin]

A lot, probably more than most people expected.

 

[Commander Bello]

10 - 50, and I don't count misspelling and graphics glitches....

As somebody already mentioned, there IS a difference between bug and bug, though. Some may make the game unplayable, some may make it unedifying to play, and some will be just minor disturbances of a (hopefully, although I don't expect too much in this direction) streamlined game.

Anyhow, IF they would release the game in a similar state as they did with C3C, they don't deserve any money anymore from the fandom. Unfortunately, there will be enough people who are going to buy the game then, anyhow.

 

[ew0054]

Theyve had plenty of time to work these thigns out, but as having been said, there's bound to be SOME in any program of this magnitude

 

[dragontail]

Well it actually depends on what qualifies for a "bug". No 1920x1200 resolution support, is it a feature/limitation or a bug? How about no 1280x960 support?

 

[Harrier]

10 - 50, and I don't count misspelling and graphics glitches....

As somebody already mentioned, there IS a difference between bug and bug, though. Some may make the game unplayable, some may make it unedifying to play, and some will be just minor disturbances of a (hopefully, although I don't expect too much in this direction) streamlined game.

Anyhow, IF they would release the game in a similar state as they did with C3C, they don't deserve any money anymore from the fandom. Unfortunately, there will be enough people who are going to buy the game then, anyhow.

How was C3C a problem?

With C3C, another software house was trying to update ancient and badly written sotware. (Badly written due to the departure of key personnel early in the development cycle of civ3 and the fact they were trying to mod an old game engine{Getisburg - I believe}).

When they tried to implement changes - it caused other parts of the game to malfunction - as witnessed on this site. IMHO they did a good job with what they were given.

Maybe you were thinging of PLW. Which I never owned.

CIV4 is different, as it has been written from scratch.

Yes this will mean there are some bugs. But with a game this complex you have to expect that - even after the beta testing.

I am sure that the professional programmers or systems designers who frequent this site will agrree with me on that point.