Despite putting in well over 100 hours into the game I am still very much a noob when it comes to any difficulty above Warlord. I am slowly improving, my last Prince game I was about 15 turns away from a cultural victory.
My main problem is being early rushed by warlike civilizations and then having to spend the entire game and a lot of my time that I could have spent on wonders and buildings defending my borders.
How do I solve this and what is a good build order for the beginning of a game?
Edit: Err, I mean't Prince in the title
On Emperor / Immortal here are my standard build orders in G&K this is with Tradition (these will also work at lower difficulty levels) :
4000 BC: Start a Monument while researching Pottery
If Monument completes before Pottery, build a Scout
Next two builds: Shrine followed by Granary. (Writing followed by the needed worker techs for the local terraign)
Next two builds: Library and Worker (order depends progress of techs) (Following above worker techs, Archery and then the National College tech
Next three builds: Archer, Archer, Settler
The new city will have a library cash rushed so National College can start in capital as soon as possible.
My order is slightly different than jons. Assuming a tradition start: (1) scout; (2) half-build worker; (3) shrine; (4) finish worker; (5) granary if you have deer and/or wheat; (6) archer; (7) library; (8) archer. Buy settlers asap instead of building them. If you're going liberty, build 2 should be a monument and you can hard build settlers after getting a free settler.
For a tradition start, your new cities should start with archers and then libraries.
Jon, why are you hard-building monuments with a tradition opener? Are you delaying legalism? It seems like a waste of momentum to me.
I play on Immortal and I usually go scout->scout->worker->settler(if I have enough population). If I'm going for a culture game, I'll build a monument after the two scouts so that way legalism will get me a free amphitheater when I research it.
Actually the opposite: The monument built gets to the tradition opener faster than without (in addition to expanding borders faster than without). My next pick is legalism and next two the ones behind legalism.
(In G&K A free amphitheater appears in cities you already built the Monument for when you get the tech for it)
Actually the opposite: The monument built gets to the tradition opener faster than without (in addition to expanding borders faster than without). My next pick is legalism and next two the ones behind legalism.
(In G&K A free amphitheater appears in cities you already built the Monument for when you get the tech for it)
Ok, I see what you're doing. I'd rather spend my early hammers finding ruins, other civs, and CSs (a scout), but I can see the virtue in pushing culture and getting an amphitheater later.
I tend to play Prince/King, but played a great deal on Warlord.
Build order - Scout, Monument then, (order depending on the situation) scout/archer/shrine.
SP's - Tradition Opener (speed up culture) Liberty Opener, Citizenship, Republic, Collective Rule (You may switch these last 3 around so you get the settler first)
Then go through the Liberty and Tradition trees, making sure you have at least 3 cities & 3 monuments before you take Legalism from Tradition. This will get you free Amphitheatres.
This isn't as focused as some of the starts on higher difficulties, but it worked every time for me at this level.
Tech's - Get the techs necessary to get your local lux's, plus archery - very important !! Go for Masonry, build the Pyramids, get the two workers.
Build another settler. Get Writing (Library) then Construction (CB's), then Philosophy for the NC
By this time you should have at least 3 cities, 3 or 4 workers and be progressing nicely.
I've had a tendency to wait until Iron before laying a 4th City. I like going for a cultural VC so try not to build more than 4 cities in total, but do occasionally drop another one on a resource such as oil or uranium later in the game if I don't have any.
Some will say this isn't the most efficient way, but it's certainly worked well for me.. Just keep your eye on the size of your army compared with the AI, make sure you are above average, and you should be fairly safe.
Get used to beelining techs and making a list of things to build in your cities. Focus on the wonders that you need, it's quite easy at this level to build loads of wonders, but that will get you into bad habits - believe me I know !!
If you want to get a good idea of how the Naval stuff works, run with England or one of the other marine based Civs.
Techs - Like to research techs for luxury if reasonable, then Pottery, Writing
A possible build order with a technology focus would be roughly like - Scout, Worker, Shrine, Warrior*, Settler**, Great Library, Oracle***
* Could be bought with gold; main reason for this is Settler escort
** Could be bought with gold, or put off until GL depending on how good your production is, and how aggressive AI is
*** Use free policy for whatever tech is needed for Oracle
I change stuff around depending on my gold income and production capabilities, and how desperate I am for Great Library and Oracle
SP's - Tradition Opener (speed up culture) Liberty Opener, Citizenship, Republic, Collective Rule (You may switch these last 3 around so you get the settler first)
As far as I understand it taking the Tradition opener just for a culture boost to policies will not help you attain policies faster (actually slower) because of the giant increase in new social policy costs. You'll finish Liberty faster by going only Liberty than you would by going Tradition opener then Liberty. The Tradition opener will speed up your border expansion, though.
Spoiler:
Liberty's Synergy with other Policies
Tradition
A hybrid tradition/liberty approach can be highly beneficial for civilizations that can abuse Tradition's Legalism, such as Siam and Songhai. Due to exponentially increasing social policy costs, it takes significantly longer to finish both branches than to finish one, so with other civilizations it's generally advisable to just go for one branch or the other.
As far as I understand it taking the Tradition opener just for a culture boost to policies will not help you attain policies faster (actually slower) because of the giant increase in new social policy costs. You'll finish Liberty faster by going only Liberty than you would by going Tradition opener then Liberty. The Tradition opener will speed up your border expansion, though.
Spoiler:
Liberty's Synergy with other Policies
Tradition
A hybrid tradition/liberty approach can be highly beneficial for civilizations that can abuse Tradition's Legalism, such as Siam and Songhai. Due to exponentially increasing social policy costs, it takes significantly longer to finish both branches than to finish one, so with other civilizations it's generally advisable to just go for one branch or the other.
Indeed, but at this level that isn't a major issue. Taking the Tradition opener gives you faster access to the next 3 policies. Liberty opener next, then, depending on your situation, take the free worker, or go for the settler. Finish the Liberty tree, which will give you time to get 3 or 4 cities up and running with monuments, before you take the cultural buildings from Tradition.
Like I said in my OP, it probably isn't the best way to open, but if you are looking to go with a 3-4 city base, and run at the lower levels, it works well. If you go for the "Tradition 4 City Start" at this level, you struggle to get all 4 cities with monuments before you get the free culture buildings, as usually the AI has less money to spend (so you can't trade lux's and buy workers/settlers). So unless you can steal your workers locally, the standard Tradition method is hard to "abuse".
Believe me, I played a lot of games at this level and I still only play and Prince/King, so I have tried many variations of the hybrid start. One thing to ask yourself is "Which bonus is more important ?". Again at this level, the 4 aqueducts aren't as important as your growth should be fairly easy anyway. Completing the Liberty SP branch first will give you a free GP, which you can use to kick start your religion, a GE to complete a wonder, or lay down a landmark/academy to give you a culture/science boost in the early game.
It's not the greatest strategy, but at this level it works very well, and I never lost a game using it.
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