build priorties

[civvver]

Specifically how to prioritize between buildings. I'm pretty good at choosing when to build workers/settlers (vs buy) and units vs buildings, but I struggle with what buildings to build first. I usually go monument, then water mill or granary. But is a granary that valuable if you don't have wheat/banana/deer? When do you grab a library? What about workshops? Picking and choosing those has always been harder.

Do you put shrines/temples in all your cities or just the first few to get your religion and then call it a day? Faith building is obviously a viable strategy but I usually prioritize food/production buildings, then science, then gold/culture and faith last with happiness as needed.

 

[Novalia]

every building has a direct benefit.. generally selections are game specific.. but granaries are a no-brainer.. +2 food in a new city helps build population.. you want your libraries to be finished by the time you research philosophy so you can build the national college in capital.. it may mean buying the last one.. by the time you reach workshop tech you should have most other relevant building built so build it.. as for shrines/temples it sort of depends on what your religion looks like.. definitely prioritize building it in cap (i build it after scout scout monument).. others build a granary before the shrine.. either way the first shrine is a must.. the next city shrine is dependent on your pantheon and general religion outlook.. if you have a good pantheon like desert folklore where you're receiving faith from tiles you dont prioritize a shrine.. if it looks like your religion is gonna tank or not even take off at all.. a shrine in other cities is lower priority..

i generally build scout scout monument shrine granary archer archer archer archer water mill.. in there somewhere is either a bought or built or stolen worker depending on situation.. etc etc... ("stealing a worker" means walking up to a CS that has a worker out.. declare war.. take the worker.. make peace).. only do that once if you're going to or you'll be on the cs sh$# list going forward.

 

[bdporter]

only do that once if you're going to or you'll be on the cs sh$# list going forward.

Not to mention being called a warmonger by everyone you meet after doing it once. Avoid stealing workers if at all possible if you're trying to avoid being attacked.

 

[Cahillicus]

When I first start a game, I go scout monument shrine. Faith is often important in my strategy, as even in the late game I can use it to buy Great People

 

[jungleman3955]

Think of it as an economist would think of it. If you were an economist, one of the things that would cross your mind is the opportunity cost of building of one building over another. "If I choose the spend the next 20 turns building X building and it would provide Y over the next 100 turns, is there another building that could provide more than Y over the next 100 turns than building X?"

With that in mind, the opportunity cost of not building the shrine early is very high if say you have a desert start along with some of the other AI. The faith that that desert would provide can propel you to an early religion with favorable beliefs(mainly happiness beliefs) that you would miss out on by not getting an early religion.

So just for buildings the priority in general during peace and not early game (for me at least): Happiness buildings (if your empire is not happy you cannot grow and the opportunity cost of not being able to grow versus being able to grow is HUGE in this game as your science is based off population and your economy is based off of how many tiles/specialists you can work), then growth buildings (granary, aqueduct, hospital, medical lab, etc.), science buildings, economic buildings, cultural buildings, and then everything else. Faith and military buildings are the exception. If early game the opportunity cost of missing an early religion can be higher than most buildings can make up for as I explained earlier. And during war time or when your empire is threatened, the opportunity cost of not building a castle at the choke point between your empire and the AI's could be astronomically high if the AI can take that city and threaten the rest of your empire.

This is how I think of it and it usually comes most in handy with wonders. If you spend X turns building a wonder and miss out on it, was the benefit of that wonder so great that you could spend X turns building it? The answer is usually no.

Edit: Production buildings are also somewhat of an exception as they allow you more hammers to faster construct the other buildings.

 

[Greslin]

Not to mention being called a warmonger by everyone you meet after doing it once. Avoid stealing workers if at all possible if you're trying to avoid being attacked.

Something that's been working for me lately is claiming stolen workers and settlers from barbs in early game. Scout, find the encampments, keep scouting, go back and check in on them once I have a couple of archers in play. There's usually a kidnapped settler or two to grab.

 

[Tabarnak]

I'm still playing with no monument starts when playing Tradition and no culture games. Starting with a scout or 2 is usually pretty good to enhance the mid game cs alliances and AI meetings. I prefer a fast worker built to sell luxuries and ressources faster. Otherwise it's monument first.

This is one of the biggest advantages of Tradition. Early scouting can make the difference between a portion of the map undiscovered because of barbs or AIs(because you scout too late) while some cs and AIs are waiting to be discovered behind...and therefore creating a lot more wealth.

 

[notam]

I'm still playing with no monument starts when playing Tradition and no culture games. Starting with a scout or 2 is usually pretty good to enhance the mid game cs alliances and AI meetings. I prefer a fast worker built to sell luxuries and ressources faster. Otherwise it's monument first.

This is one of the biggest advantages of Tradition. Early scouting can make the difference between a portion of the map undiscovered because of barbs or AIs(because you scout too late) while some cs and AIs are waiting to be discovered behind...and therefore creating a lot more wealth.

I have been playing lately only 2 scouts first if its pangea. If you are smaller, like continents, even then the 2 scouts is quiet strong. If you are playing watermaps, i never build scout, what is imo a no brainer(atlest for me). You build shipts to find out civs so you wount be stuck in.

One game i did not prio shipts at first and found out, that i am stuck to one civ. That really hammerd my early developemnt. No CS to discover and no other AI-s.

First AI early DOW-d me aswell.. any ships i sent, were killed off, fast.

 

[Primadog]

I dislike the concept of blindly building a set build order in every single city. If you look at the numbers, it doesn't add up.

For example, let's just take a look at Granary:

Granary - cost 60H, Maintenance 1G, +2F (+1 to each WHEAT BANANAS DEER)

If you have a wheat, bananas, or deer in your first ring, building it makes a lot of sense. But what if you don't have any of those nearby?

Watermill - cost 75H, Maintenance 2G, +2F +1H

In that case, the Watermill and Granary both provide both the same Food bonus, yet just for 15 more Hammers up-front, you get +1H for rest of the game. The Watermill pays for itself in 15 turns!

What if the city is coastal and you have some fish nearby?

Lighthouse - cost 75H, Maintenance 1G, +2F Fish / +1 Ocean

Same cost as Watermill. If you plan to work more than 1 ocean tile in that city, you get more food out of the Lighthouse than the Watermill, and it cost 1G less in maintenance!

Now, what if you have Goddess of the Sea pantheon?

Work Boat - cost 50H, +1F (+1H GotS)

Cheaper than the Granary hammer-wise, yet it gives almost as much bonus, and no maintenance once expended! Moreover, units are cheaper to rush-buy than buildings, so it's a significant saving to rush a Work Boat rather than a Granary ( Granary - 340G for 60H = 5.7G/H, Work Boat 240G for 50H = 4.8 G/H).


Now, all these buildings requires specific its own circumstance to outshine the Granary, but that's the point! Civ5 would not be a very good strategy game, if you can blindly follow a build order every time you plant a new city and ignore the terrain. It becomes a richer game experience, once you stop thinking about buildings and start thinking about what the buildings do instead.

 

[Ninakoru]

Also there's the static vs dynamic benefits, and city specialization. Culture buildings do not depend on pop, Science buildings do. Production buildings are a mix, they give static addition and a dynamic bonus to building production. Science buildings depend mostly on population, even if they give static bakers. On low pop high production cities you want static and production benefits (and possibily troops)

Library is inmensely important, but it won't pay its cost at all until you get 4 pop, so is better to get first one/two of a monument/shrine/granary, witch benefits doesn't depend on city size and benefit tile/growth on a great way from te beggining. Then, library.

The general priority I use is production -> growth -> science -> culture (while keeping happiness positive), but may depend in many things. Generally speaking a first tier building is usually better than a second tier. If you have happiness issues you lower growth priority.

There's a global demand depending on your victory type and currect deficiencies. As example: I sometimes get too low on culture. Only culture from monuments and few conquered wonders. Then I change all priorities and build amphiteaters and opera houses with highest priority to make up for it. Also on high difficulties, science health is a must. You should aim for phylosophy - education - scientific theory - plastics when other key techs are covered. The best practice would be to plan a little ahead and boosting an aspect before you enter in a severe deficiency.

There are some buildings that I don't find that useful. Water mill has a high maintenance for the benefit, and the wind mill is nice but the cost is quite disturbing for low production cities. I also skip ironworks and stable if there's only one workable tile because trading 1 gold for 1 production is not that great (even with the production bonus for units), plus the turns those buildings need to be done is a problem. I rarely do harbor and seaport if the city only has one sea resource at range, only if I want a trade route / build ships. Both Stoneworks and Circus are great and acquire high priority unless I have too much excess happiness.

Lastly, If I spend money on building, production and new acquired buildings (theaters/universities/public schools/factories are usual targets) are my target, the more the building cost, more benefit that you will get for your spent money.

There's a lot of thinking, planning and adaptation involved in building priority, also mixed to when to do troops and when to not. That's to me, one of the most challenging and interesting part of the game.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Is the watermill really a good bargain?

2 gold per turn is significant when the watermill becomes available. I usually only am bringing in around ~8gpt at that point. For a quarter of my income I get a tiny bit of food and a hammer? It doesn't seem to add up to me. Can someone explain why I'm wrong? I'm not sure one hammer is worth 2 gold, especially before +% modifiers come into play.

I usually go scout->shrine->monument, just for the chance to get a good pantheon. I wonder if scout->shrine->scout would be better for a tradition start? That free amphitheater is so tempting.

 

[kirbdog]

You want more food and you will be "converting" gold into hammers anyway, so yes, the water mill is a nice building. I often build it first in non-capital cities if it provides as much food as the granary.

 

[joncnunn]

Specifically how to prioritize between buildings. I'm pretty good at choosing when to build workers/settlers (vs buy) and units vs buildings, but I struggle with what buildings to build first. I usually go monument, then water mill or granary. But is a granary that valuable if you don't have wheat/banana/deer? When do you grab a library? What about workshops? Picking and choosing those has always been harder.

Do you put shrines/temples in all your cities or just the first few to get your religion and then call it a day? Faith building is obviously a viable strategy but I usually prioritize food/production buildings, then science, then gold/culture and faith last with happiness as needed.

Monument: If going Tradition, I think your better off skipping. (Yes; in G&K you'd eventually get a free Amphithere, but I think your better off having a worker a few turns earlier). But if going Liberty, it is a very important build.

Water Mill / Granary: Going tall, they are both extremely important. Even if not interested in faster growth at the moment, you relocate workers to tiles producing more hammers. You can build a Shrine first to get the religion founded sooner, but that's about it.

Library/Workshop/Shrine/Temple: Going tall, these are all also always build buildings. In fact, going tall, just about every building is an always build everywhere just for the national wonders; its just the timing that will very.

Wide is quite a bit different.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

You want more food and you will be "converting" gold into hammers anyway, so yes, the water mill is a nice building. I often build it first in non-capital cities if it provides as much food as the granary.

Water Mill / Granary: Going tall, they are both extremely important. Even if not interested in faster growth at the moment, you relocate workers to tiles producing more hammers.

Again, I'm not quite sure I understand why 1 hammer is so valuable. Granted, the two food is decent, given that you can get it early. But is the water mill worth 2 gold in the early game? When I'm going tall (which I prefer), I usually rushbuy my second settler, and sometimes my third. It seems to me that the watermill is situational, at best.

The granary is a great value if you have at least 1 affected resource. The watermill doesn't get any modifiers...

 

[Cahillicus]

Again, I'm not quite sure I understand why 1 hammer is so valuable. Granted, the two food is decent, given that you can get it early. But is the water mill worth 2 gold in the early game? When I'm going tall (which I prefer), I usually rushbuy my second settler, and sometimes my third. It seems to me that the watermill is situational, at best.

The granary is a great value if you have at least 1 affected resource. The watermill doesn't get any modifiers...

In the early game, I often find that any hammers are useful, as then you need less hammers to make stuff, so they are worth more. And think of the percent modifier for hammer from the workshop.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Didn't mean to hijack this build priority thread- please reply on this watermill centric thread. Thanks!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=494007

 

[bdporter]

Something that's been working for me lately is claiming stolen workers and settlers from barbs in early game. Scout, find the encampments, keep scouting, go back and check in on them once I have a couple of archers in play. There's usually a kidnapped settler or two to grab.

This is a good idea, but the only problem for me is that I rarely find any barb Workers and Settlers.

 

[Jelster]

my general build list in my capital depends on which Civ I'm playing, whether I go Tradition or Liberty, and the amount of local Barbs. In general my build order tends to be:

Scout - Monument - Shrine - Granary - Library. There may be an archer or two thrown in there if I have Barb trouble, and a worker after Granary if I'm going tradition.

I may well go 2 scouts on some maps, or if I'm playing Spain. The Library will be built earlier if I'm playing Babylon or Korea, and I do a single city NC start.

Once the "base" is in, I look towards my production, and possibly a wonder (In my current game I had so much production I got the Oracle in 12 turns, and I had 3 Archers, two scouts and a warrior, so felt safe from a military perspective.

Watermill is important, as it adds growth and production. Military buildings mean your units are built with some experience.

Culture buildings have a major purpose even if you aren't going for a culture win. They let you get through the SP paths quicker, and they're needed for border growth. Even when I'm going for a Science CV, culture plays a major part of my strategy.

The problem with this game is that after the "base" build, your strategy is so dependent on your circumstances. It's down to experience, who you have around you, and whether you have managed to get your economy going.