Builder's Bargain

I was half joking :p I only had dificulties in that game because I thought that we couldn't get grens and MGs before the AI . I just thought it was a interesting later complement for a game where your buildings are capped :D
 
Lol I'm no warmonger. I followed the rules, but instead of building more units, I just ended up beelining Alphabet so I could build research everywere...

Hmm. Usually the more correct answer would be to beeline Currency and build Wealth, but I hadn't thought about how the variant restrictions might play with the Wealth/Research trade off.

There are a lot of different things to produce when you hit the point that you cannot invest any more hammers in buildings. The variant was intended to force you to try at least one of them :)

Will you be donating a report to the thread?
 
You clearly understand the implications, so... good luck.

You make it sound so..... ominous..:shifty:

No - you can't have infrastructure on the queue unless you already have the budget. There are only 100 hammers (from your discretionary budget) available when your capital is your only city, and Stonehenge has an investment cost of 120.

Ahh, but a half built SH only has 60 hammers invested :D just kidding, I'll research agri and get up to happy cap sooner.....
 
Okay, sign me up. I need me some learning to bust some of my bad builder habits.
 
I just gave it a try.

Spoiler :
Well, right off the bat, my fog busting was more effective! I moved my settler 2 west to pick up the cow. I got a lot of usless land, too, but all my cities fit well around my spoke, and the early cows can always make a big difference.

I took a slightly winding path to alphabet, crashing my economy along the way (8 cities at 350 BC?) Then I picked up Currency really fast, making all my cities build research. Then I could let them build money, so I could get science or something else. Got CoL quickly, and started building courthouses everywhere. They and libraries were my sure builds.

Wonders were totally out of the question. I thought about trying for pyramids. However, only my capital had a chance of getting it, and thanks to 160 hammers invested in the palace from turn 1, it would put me over the limit alone.

I went to war farily early, before I got Constuction, but just bearly. I ripped Mutal from Pacal's hands, though I saw how far behind I was in tech, since my swordsmen had to hack though longbows. I sued for peace, got a load of techs to help me backfill, and then started trading around CoL and/or Civil Service to catch up. It worked pretty well, but João won the Lib race, by just a few turns.

I was still about his equal in tech, and I didn't really care about Theology or Divine Right, anyway.

AP went Hindu, and so did I, with Brenus and João. Both were friendly with me, but would not help me in my second war against Pacal. I took one city, it had some usless buildings, so I razed it. Then Shaka declared on me. He wasn't happy with me, so I am not sure if he was bribed, but his one elephant attack made it look quite unplanned.

I gave him 20 gold a few turns later to go away.

I was the first to gunpowder, as another Mayan city fell to me. It had some good things, like an academy, so I held on to it, in spite of the fact it had SH.

Unfortunately, I lost a city to João by culture at about the same time. It was a fairly usless ice city, since his culture had taken the wheat already, anyway.

Then Willem just can't take my hinduism anymore and decides war is the only answer. His buddy Fred soon joins him. The majority of my army was on the eastern side of the map, and they were obviously invading from the west. João wouldn't stop trading with either of them, saying he liked them too much.

Their numbers were just too much. I had superior units, but they had superior numbers. After they took about half my cities, I just gave up. I would have been able to take my cities back, but I was so far behind, João was just going to run away with it.

It was interesting, at least. I learned a lot. Buildings are more important than I thought. Not building the correct infastructure is suicide, and a big army can't make up for it (and that goes double if the army is too far away to defend.)

With that thought, the correct wonders work...wonders. I used to spam them, and now I am much more selective, but I never shy away from them. Not being able to go after wonders was a terrible pain. With so much water in so many cities, I can think of at least two of them that would have helped a lot...:lol:

Too many units and not enough buildings...not a good thing. Hopefully playing this game like this will help me move up (I have played Noble for quite some time and have won on Prince the first time yesterday), since I have learned a lot about just how vital they are to running your empire.
 
No - you can't have infrastructure on the queue unless you already have the budget.
And if you start one build, can you switch to another, allowing the hammers in the first to decay?

For example, if I start on a Barracks, but then find a more ideal unit pump location, can I drop the Barracks in favor of a Stable, for instance.

Further, what's the stance on fail-gold? If I can afford the hammer cost of a wonder, but fail to produce it, it's no longer in the queue, so I take it I've "freed" the hammers for something else (another wonder?:rolleyes:). Fail-gold from a wonder you have the resource for could be a major difference given the relative lack of modifiers you'll have.

I'm more concerned with the larger issue, if only because it's more specific to the flavor of the bargain (city specialization). I have no problems passing on intentional fail-gold.
 
I tried the Unibuilder rule set, achieving victory in 1928. In retrospect I did this quite stupidly as I could have built more infrastructure than I did and a bit more planning would have helped the finish date, but oh well. Too tired to sort through all the saves, pull out pictures, and do an actual write up tonight. So here's the 1AD, Lib, and just prior to victory saves along with the end stats screenshot. Hopefully I interpreted the rules correctly.

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0000-17.jpg



I numbered my cities in the order I settled them for my own sanity. Matching up Sippur with Dur-Kalasdasdkl was just a tad hard to keep track of.

Edit - I have notes and such so I will post a write up in the future, just not tonight. That is as long as I didn't inadvertently violate a rule - e.g. Academy = 0 hammers I hope!
 

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Is the Palace included in the infrastructure amount for the capital?

I'm going to assume no, and continue for now.

Your assumption matches my intention - I completely overlooked it in setting up the rules. Rules have been updated to make this point explicit.
 
Edit - I have notes and such so I will post a write up in the future, just not tonight. That is as long as I didn't inadvertently violate a rule - e.g. Academy = 0 hammers I hope!

Oh, I think you should post your notes even if you did violate a rule :) But you have correctly measured the cost of an Academy (actually, strict reading of the rules might make it 1 hammer, but it's intended to be allowed).

Shrines, Scotland Yard, Military Academy likewise.
 
1AD
Spoiler :
Played out to 1AD so far.

I have to say, it's kind of fun ignoring all those buildings.

1ADBabylonWestEmpire.jpg


1ADBorsippaEastEmpire.jpg


My pairs so far are Babylon and Akkad, Dur-Kurigalzu and Nippur, Borsippa and Sippar, and finally Mari and Opis, with two more settlers on the way. With some of these cities, I'm already intentionally looking for junk sites to settle earlier than usual so as to maintain a decent number of points for each pair.

1ADbuilds.jpg


Pretty much beelined for Mathematics->Currency->Code of Law, so that I could swap to CS and run artists for border pops. Path went Mining->Bronze Working->Fishing->Pottery->Hunting->Animal Husbandry->Sailing->Archery->Writing->Mathematics->Currency->Code of Law, then up Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood, Monarchy. I passed around Currency for Alphabet, Masonry, Iron Working and some f&f trading modifiers.
 
Rather than constantly count up how many hammers I was putting into my cities, I started this game with a simple plan: I would not construct anything. No buildings, no wonders, just units. I did make an academy in the capital, since that didn't cost me any hammers, but that was it.

I gotta say, it's a pleasant change to play on noble level. Everything is so much more forgiving here- you don't get crippled by maintence costs for having 5 cities early on, for example.

Spoiler :
I started by settling on top of the rice, since it gave me a 3 food capital for a faster worker, and non-irrigated rice isn't that great.
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My first problem was culture. Since I couldn't make buildings, and Hammurabi's not creative, that meant that I needed an early religion if I wanted to expand borders. However, Hammurabi doesn't start with mysticism, so I had no chance of getting buddhism or hinduism. I decided to go for Judaism, after first teching pottery and filling my capital with cottages.


Spoiler :
I succeeded in getting Judaism, and proceeded to spam cities everywhere. Without buildings, there was no way for me to make large cities, so instead I focused on making as many as possible, and working as many cottages as possible. I even put cottages on most of the hills. This actually worked much better than I expected (it helped that Hammy is organized), and resulted in this tech situation in the early ADs:

301oylz.jpg


Spoiler :
Here's a picture of my empire, after all of my city-spamming. I built all these cities myself, peacefully. I pretty much gave in to all AI demands, in order to avoid war.
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Spoiler :
And here's a picture of my home island, just after getting liberalism. I took nationalism, so that I could go for democracy.
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Spoiler :
Switching to US made a huge difference to my MFG lol. That should tell you how many towns I had. Not that MFG really mattered here, since I used rush-buy to make my army, anyway.
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Spoiler :
with all these cities and no courthouses, maintenence was killer. I switched to state property as soon as I could. It would have been nice to have the Kremlin, but, sadly, that was forbidden to me.
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Spoiler :
At last, the time had come for war! I didn't want the other civilizations corrupting my people with their decadent city lifestyles, so I burned all enemy cities and replaced them with my own, free of buildings.
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Spoiler :
You know the game is going well when you're fighting longbows with infantry...
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Spoiler :
I actually built so many cities that it ran out of Babylonian city names, and had to start taking names from other civs. Here's Rome, one of the last cities I made.
2gte0sw.jpg


Shortly after that, I won a domination victory. I had vassalized everyone except Shaka, and he was being brutally massacred. This game was a lot of fun, and I teched much faster than I expected to with this handicap. It really changed the value of certain techs- printing press and liberalism were both hugely valuable, whereas aesthetics, metal casting, and education were completely worthless.
 
Well here's the write up for a Unibuilder victory circa 1928. In addition to the explicit rules I avoided buildings I deemed not entirely needed for most of the game and never started a war. In fact no one on the map ever actually declared war. A few AI's went into prep mode but for whatever reason (I blame defensive pacts I signed mostly) nothing ever came of it. I am sure the launch date could be much sooner as looking back over my notes and screen shots a lot of my decisions, build dates, and "micro" was highly questionable.

To 1AD

Spoiler :

Total buildings to date –
One library

Civ4ScreenShot0004-15.jpg


The tech path went-

Mining - BW
Pottery
Masonry – Myst – Poly – Monotheism (claim Judaism for culture)
AH
Fishing
Writing
Sailing
Alpha
IW/Hunting/Med (via trades)
Theology (claim Christianity for culture)
Currency

Civ4ScreenShot0001-14.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0000-18.jpg


The cities are named in the order I founded them so pairs should be fairly easy to identify, however after the first 4 I stopped paying a lot of attention to trying to make good pairs. The capital, One, I settled in place as riverside with irrigated rice/corn post CS through the city square seemed plenty fine by me. Seeing as how infrastructure will be at a minimum the plan was to make the capital as strong as I could in terms of research – all of my “high end” research infrastructure will end up here. To further this goal I settled Two directly to the south. Here it shared the corn with the capital and started working cottages to later pass back. This city will get no buildings – ever. All 500 shared hammers are book marked for the capital as Oxford alone requires 400.

Cities three and five were settled in the central hub area. For those of you unfamiliar with the map script the center tends to be the desolate tundra region that contains deer, silver, marble, crabs, and other such cold area resources. With the lack of buildings for happiness/health and relative safety of claiming my own immediate area making sure to claim as large/diverse a group of resources as possible seemed like a good idea. These cities claimed wheat, deer, clam, marble, sheep, 2x crab and were all in food surpluses allowing specialists to be worked down the line.

City four has a strong food resource (pigs), some flatland forests, and a solid number of hills. Since I have to go to space this city is bookmarked as my production center. Leaving the forests for mills provides free health I cannot so easily get later. In the short term it will just do what all cities seem to do, build research and soon wealth.

City Six is working cottages to the west of the capital for the same purpose two is, however once these are given back it will also have 3 grassland silk to work. City Seven is built just because not working a corn tile is wrong. City Eight not built quite yet will be placed on the island to the east to utilize the fish and set up overseas trade. The island also coincidentally has horses, which comes as a nice surprise.

City One - Also one turn to currency and a GS for the academy. After this all cities swap to building wealth to push up the slider.
Civ4ScreenShot0003-14.jpg



To 1010AD

Spoiler :

Building update:
4 Libraries, 2 more in queue
1 Granary (capital - One)
1 Academy (capital – One)
1 Forge (production city – Four)

Civ4ScreenShot0003-15.jpg


Tech Path and Screen:

Civ4ScreenShot0005-12.jpg


Monarchy/PH/Math (via trades)
CoL – CS (missed religion - damn Joao)
Calendar
Philosophy (missed religion - damn Joao again!)
Paper
Archery (via a map trade hah)
MC – Machinery – PP
Construction (via trade)
Education – partially

Not sure why I delayed Education until after PP since a University and Oxford earlier in the capital would have made a lot more sense. Chalk that up to idiocy! The religious tech chasing was to try and prevent one AI from getting most of them, though after claiming Theo/Mono I did not hard beeline any others due to Pacal and Joao splitting the remaining 4 anyway (Brennus snagged Buddhism).

Civ4ScreenShot0001-15.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002-12.jpg


City Nine went on top of the Dye due to more idiocy! I thought it would give me a 2 commerce city tile for some reason at the time meaning I only “lose” 3 commerce and gain a hill to work. Either way it’s mostly just to claim the Dye anyway. Cities Eleven and Twelve are likewise founded just to claim resources in the central area – More crabs (amazing trade fodder in just about any game) and Silver in particular. Also snag more fish and iron. Thirteen is en route to claim Cows, Fish, and Fur in the same region.

City Ten goes to the far north claiming 2 fish and horses. This city has a couple hills, decent food and can run specialists to help pop out the slow as molasses stream of great scientists.

Current Civics - HR, Bureaucracy, Caste, Default, Paganism (NSR OR would have been smarter to suck up to Brennus)

City One – Bureaucracy Commerce City

Civ4ScreenShot0004-16.jpg


City Four – Future Production City starting to come into form

Civ4ScreenShot0000-19.jpg




To 1280AD - Lib

Spoiler :

New Building update:
4 Universities
2 Universities enroute

Civ4ScreenShot0000-20.jpg


Tech Path and Screen:

Civ4ScreenShot0008-10.jpg


Education
Compasss/Fuedalsim/Aes (via trades)
Optics – Astronomy – SM
Lit/Drama (via trades)
Lib
Communism (up next turn from first to Lib)

Research increase with an observatory, when I stop being dumb and put it in queue, and Oxford once the last two cities finish the requirement builds for the capital. Communism and Lib will open up State Property/Free Religion for production, research, and happiness boosts. Could have delayed Lib even further, but not if I wanted Communism

Civ4ScreenShot0006-13.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0007-11.jpg


Cities Fifteen and Sixteen are to create mini production cities with workshops and forges to build some of the lesser ship parts while Four does the heavy lifting. City Fourteen is to claim more food and work more specialists. Still only 3 GS’s to date since I’m producing them concurrently with no bonuses. Woohoo! All great people unless noted are settled in the capital.

Current Civics – Same until next turn as noted.

City One – Bureaucracy Commerce City

Civ4ScreenShot0009-10.jpg


City Four – Production City

Civ4ScreenShot0010-10.jpg




To 1660AD

Spoiler :

New Building update:
5 Forges
1 Granary
1 Observatory
1 Oxford University
1 Ironworks (in queue)

Civ4ScreenShot0001-16.jpg


Tech Path and Screen:

Civ4ScreenShot0011-9.jpg


Music/Engineering (via trade)
Physics (first for the GS)
Guild-Banking-Economics (first for the GM)
Gunpowder (via trade)
Replaceable Parts – Rifling
Nationalism – MT
Chemistry
Electricity
Constitution – Corporation
Steam Power
Steel – Railroads – Assembly Line

I was way too late researching Constitution and Corporation. The GS was settled while the GM is still sitting in the capital. The next turn I start my first Golden Age to swap to Representation and speed along The Ironworks. I had to wait for a few forges to start on it and wanted to use the golden age to get it up more quickly and I had to delay swapping out of Hereditary Rule until I secured Defensive Pacts with Joao and Pacal anyway. If it were not for them I would have swapped into Representation much sooner.

Civ4ScreenShot0004-17.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0005-13.jpg


City Seventeen claimed a small island with a crab outside of Willem’s immediate area that he never claimed. This city eventually got some workshops and a forge to serve as another secondary space ship part city. Cities Eighteen and Nineteen are the type of filler cities that with late game buildings and corporations are very profitable, but in this case were just settled for the +100 hammers in the pot rule. At best they are neutral to my economy after a few improved tiles and wealth building.

Current Civics – Same until next turn as noted.

City One – Bureaucracy Commerce City

Civ4ScreenShot0002-13.jpg


City Four – Production City

Civ4ScreenShot0003-16.jpg




To 1927AD – 1 turn prior to victory

Spoiler :

New Building update:
I finally had to build some health/happy stuff, especially when fur/ivory/whale all obsoleted.
1 Forge
1 Granary
2 Harbors
1 Factory
1 Theater
1 Garden

Civ4ScreenShot0004-18.jpg


Tech Path and Screen:

Civ4ScreenShot0005-14.jpg


Industrialism
Artillery – Rocketry
Democracy (Emancipation unhappiness caught up)
Biology – Refrigeration – Superconductors
Radio
Satellites – Combustion – Plastics – Composites
Ecology
HBR/MS/DR/Medicine/Fission (via trade –Joao actually bee-lined techs, remarkable)
Genetics
Computers – Fiber Optics – Fusion (first for the GE)

This path makes a bit more sense other than going Superconductors too early considering I did not have the spare hammers for an observatory/lab combo in Four. I used the GE along with a GS to start a golden age to speed along the one engine I built. No point building two engines when each takes 15ish turns and 1 of 2 engines is only a two turn arrival penalty. Also swapped to US just in case an AI got tricky and tried to ruin my fun despite 3 defensive pacts and fairly solid diplomacy.

Civ4ScreenShot0002-14.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003-17.jpg


City 20 was simply for the 100 hammer pool that I did not end up needing. Lost the spread sheet I was using to keep track, but I believe I ended up 220 hammers short of using up the total empire shared pool.

Current Civics – US/Bureaucracy/Eman/SP/FR

City One – Bureaucracy Commerce City

Civ4ScreenShot0000-21.jpg


City Four – Production City

Civ4ScreenShot0001-17.jpg


City Sixteen – Secondary Production City

Civ4ScreenShot0007-12.jpg



Victory Screen - The only threat was Pacal just finally turning up the culture slider 10 turns ago. Too little far too late.

Civ4ScreenShot0000-22.jpg

 
Pardon me if I'm being dense. We're supposed to play the whole game out under these constraints? And possibly win?
 
1AD

I'm using the General Ruleset.
Spoiler :


Built my first academy this turn. About to get Civil Service.

Tech path was pretty much go for BW and then beeline Alphabet so I could build research and not be forced to build more units or buildings. Went straight for Currency after Alphabet. Was able to do a lot of tech trading after that. I researched Monarchy, adopted HR straight away then went for Code of Laws and founded Confucianism.

Rather than building a bunch of courthouses like I'd usually do, I've only built one so far.

Have entirely cottaged the capital now and have cities around it assisting in the cottage-growing process. :D


Spoiler pictures :
civ4screenshot0006e.jpg


civ4screenshot0008z.jpg


civ4screenshot0009.jpg


statsvh.jpg


civ4screenshot0010.jpg


civ4screenshot0011s.jpg

 

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Pardon me if I'm being dense. We're supposed to play the whole game out under these constraints? And possibly win?

Yes.

Going to give this a go myself as I usually build way too much infrastructure. Leaving all that out and just building units means you should be able to steamroll your way to a Domination victory soon enough.
 
1000AD
Spoiler :

Liberalism in 720AD. Took Nationalism with it.

Beelining Military Tradition so I can start building cuirassiers en masse. I might mix a few catapults in with them because I'm still a fair way from Engineering for trebuchets.

I've got 6 cities building the necessary universities but city 11 is going to take a while - it will use the whip when it's big enough.

I'm probably going to attack Brennus first.

Spoiler pictures :
civ4screenshot0020.jpg


civ4screenshot0021.jpg


graphs1000ad.jpg


stats1000ad.jpg


civ4screenshot0024.jpg


civ4screenshot0025.jpg
 

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