Building a city in the desert/tundra/etc.

[Teedman]

Did some looking around the forum, and all I could find was something that applied to Civ4 regarding building cities on desert/tundra terrain. What about Civ5? Does it really matter? The reason I ask, is because I've played China a few times and I seem to always be dumped near a huge desert. If you have to build on these tiles, what’s the best strategy? Thanks!

 

[revelation216]

IMO restart if it's forced for any of your first 5 cities. After that just plonk cities anywhere to get resources and land.

 

[Schalke 04]

well it depends.

1. Production. Hills are always good. It doesn't matter if it is a desert, tundra or grassland hill. It always gives you good production for less food. Same for forests. Well I don't think you get forests in desert, but in tundra you will have plenty of them.

2. Food. Sometimes you have an oasis or two in the desert, which is a good tile that doesn't need to be improved. However, it is highly important to have a river. No river = don't settle in desert in the most cases. With a river OTOH you have a lot of flood plains that give you a nice food amount. In tundra you may get food from the sea or from deer.

3. Resources. Even tundra or desert terrain can make up for a good start, if you have enough resources at hand. In tundra you get a lot of deers normally. Plus: a tundra city is very likely coastal. Fish or whales resources can give you food an gold as well. In desert you may have an oasis or if lucky, several copies of incense.

4. Do the math. How large do you want your city to grow? Just look how many "good tiles" you have there. Several floodplains/deer plus several forests/hills? If you have enough tiles that deliver production and food, you may want to settle there.

Pure flatland tundra or desert without a river is almost always a bad idea.

EDIT: uploaded a screenshot from my game to show a good desert city with resources and river

Spoiler :

 

[kamex]

well it depends.

1. Production. Hills are always good. It doesn't matter if it is a desert, tundra or grassland hill. It always gives you good production for less food. Same for forests. Well I don't think you get forests in desert, but in tundra you will have plenty of them.

2. Food. Sometimes you have an oasis or two in the desert, which is a good tile that doesn't need to be improved. However, it is highly important to have a river. No river = don't settle in desert in the most cases. With a river OTOH you have a lot of flood plains that give you a nice food amount. In tundra you may get food from the sea or from deer.

3. Resources. Even tundra or desert terrain can make up for a good start, if you have enough resources at hand. In tundra you get a lot of deers normally. Plus: a tundra city is very likely coastal. Fish or whales resources can give you food an gold as well. In desert you may have an oasis or if lucky, several copies of incense.

4. Do the math. How large do you want your city to grow? Just look how many "good tiles" you have there. Several floodplains/deer plus several forests/hills? If you have enough tiles that deliver production and food, you may want to settle there.

Pure flatland tundra or desert without a river is almost always a bad idea.

EDIT: uploaded a screenshot from my game to show a good desert city with resources and river

Spoiler :

I agree completely. Would also like to add that in my experience, there tends to be lots of Iron deposits in tundra / dessert too, especially 6 iron tiles.

 

[Fluffball]

I agree completely. Would also like to add that in my experience, there tends to be lots of Iron deposits in tundra / dessert too, especially 6 iron tiles.

For the later game there is often a lot of oil in desert/tundra areas also.

Desert areas in particular can be very good, although not often prime city spots, if there is a river to plant upon and can become quite lucrative gold producing cities due to the river trade and if you gain access to resources that can be sold via building a city there.

 

[Bamboocha]

well it depends.

1. Production. Hills are always good. It doesn't matter if it is a desert, tundra or grassland hill. It always gives you good production for less food. Same for forests. Well I don't think you get forests in desert, but in tundra you will have plenty of them.

2. Food. Sometimes you have an oasis or two in the desert, which is a good tile that doesn't need to be improved. However, it is highly important to have a river. No river = don't settle in desert in the most cases. With a river OTOH you have a lot of flood plains that give you a nice food amount. In tundra you may get food from the sea or from deer.

3. Resources. Even tundra or desert terrain can make up for a good start, if you have enough resources at hand. In tundra you get a lot of deers normally. Plus: a tundra city is very likely coastal. Fish or whales resources can give you food an gold as well. In desert you may have an oasis or if lucky, several copies of incense.

4. Do the math. How large do you want your city to grow? Just look how many "good tiles" you have there. Several floodplains/deer plus several forests/hills? If you have enough tiles that deliver production and food, you may want to settle there.

Pure flatland tundra or desert without a river is almost always a bad idea.

EDIT: uploaded a screenshot from my game to show a good desert city with resources and river

Spoiler :

Its still a waste that you'll expand into some uselss desert terrain in time.

 

[Tabarnak]

Luxuries and ressources is what you want, anywhere.

 

[timtofly]

It is harder in the desert and tundra, but it is the surrounding resources that matter for city placement. One of my best games was started in the Egyptian desert. You are forced to plant farms and spread elsewhere to survive. Of course if you do not like to expand, then that is a different story.

They are also good for planting those Great People.

 

[Schalke 04]

Its still a waste that you'll expand into some uselss desert terrain in time.

I don't think it's really a waste. All that matters is that you have enough good tiles to work for your city. If you get some more tiles by cultural expansions that you don't need it is not a problem in my book. It's not that you have to pay for this cultural expansion. Plus: you may find some later era ressources there, eg oil in desert or uranium in tundra.

The question is: how many good tiles do you need to justify a city? Keep in mind, that some of your citzens can and will work as specialists. And irrigated flood plains give you enough food for that matter. So, for a size 13 city it may be enough to have 9 good tiles. Mined hills, irrigated floodplains and some ressources of whatever kind. It's not rare that you find plenty of those in a desert. Farmed grassland and mined grassland hills vs. farmed flood plains and mined desert hills. In terms of these "basic non ressource tiles" a desert is as good as a grassland start. All you need is a river and some hills. But you want that on grassland too, don't you?

Don't get me wrong. I am not super fan of desert cities. But some of them, under right circumstances, can develop better and faster than a plains city with less ressources or without a river.

 

[timtofly]

IMO deserts, especially those six tiles around an oasis, for survival tend to be farms instead of trading post. Thus they will cause the city to grow faster for those who just put down trading post on the normal plains and grassland tiles.