Building Graphics: Concentration/Work Camp

[ducksoup]

whats it matter what the flag looks like?

 

[Ukas]

Originally posted by ducksoup
whats it matter what the flag looks like?

It makes a world of difference, man. But, to the point:

I was thinking about concentration camp building and how to use it, should it be an improvement or a wonder (this has been also asked from me)? The stats I gave to the building are: causes 2 unhappy faces, requires fascist govt, barracks, 3 maintenance and minor tribe (and possibly coal too) resource.

Because of playability I like to keep minor tribes quite rare, in a 16 player game there are about 12-14 minor tribes. Probably there is some excess in industrial times, since there are like 8-10 civs usually left. So, I can't check the 'required goos must be within city radius' box if I want more than one camp per civ. A camp per civ is too little portray the nazi madness and would be seriously too evil to have them in every city (though nazis had hundreds of camps). I would start to hate my civ and no govt changes could help.

My idea is, that it could be a multiple small wonder thing in a bit similar way I made my Olympic Games wonder to act. But with the difference that there will be three or four camps.

Camp 1 would require palace building and minor tribe in strategic resource box - it's only realistic to have a camp in your capital's area.

Camp 2 would require minor tribe within city radius

Camp 3 minor tribe in resource box and military academy.

Camp 4 minor tribe and intel agency (which is reasonable)

This way you can build at least three different camps, four if minor tribe exists nearby your cities.

Well, at least I'm gonna do it this way.

Ukas

 

[Risbinroch]

The buildings look great but what effects is it possible to give them? Is it possible that these buildings can have some negative effect on your reputation? Like other civs gets really angry at you...

I am no master with the editor: but is it also possible that building such an improvement can cause revolt, at least a higher chanse of that happening? Don't wan't to use this building if it ain't possible to having huge negative effects as well, allthough the unhappy think don't really work I believe, since they didn't cause the germans to be unhappy IRL - did they?

and btw, I don't think it is that cruel... the relly cruel thing about civ is that whole cities are getting destroyed: burned to the ground, THAT should rarely happen IMO... Should be worse than using a nuke, or at least just the same.

 

[Ukas]

I've explained my point earlier - that is I tend to think it's "realistic" to have a fascist govt in civ3. I balance fascism in my personal mod by wonders and improvements.

I give it problematic corruption (because of constant struggle of power different bureaus fought) and some war weariness but the effects can be reduced by building Gestapo Headquarters etc.

It's oversimplified to say all Germans were only happy about the camps and subjucation they faced. Of course unhappy citizens were often taken to the camps but there was still resistance against the system, for example by the military (Wehrmacht).

But again the unhappiness caused by the camps can be reduced by propaganda and military police (like the loyal SS). Camps also cause pollution and require high maintenance. That's about how much negative effects you can give to a single improvement, but the Fascism requires lot of nasty things to be build to be competitive with other govts so it's not a question of single wonders and improvements, or just about moving some sliders in civ3edits govt tab, but the system you have to create to make it work. For me that's realistic enough to portray the hideous fascism in Civ3.

 

[TVA22]

Ukas, unless I'm missing something, a lot of your buildings don't have city view pics, could you post some of them, so that we can replace original buildings with yours if we so choose?

 

[Ukas]

You're right TVA:

There's only one building I made which has city view graphics, and that's the Noah's Ark.

Main reason is there's no others is that it's a lot of work compared to the value, and at the moment I don't have much time to do buildings even as usual.

Making some building for city view demands new, larger drawing which then has to be adjusted to four different surroundings. That can be over a day's work. Maybe when this spring hassle is over, I'll start to work with city views for buildings people like to use in their scenarios and mods. I've even thought about making (was it Smoking Mirror's idea?) night time city view

 

[TVA22]

Didn't realize it was so much work, as I've never made any buildings. If you get the time in the future, that'd be great, and any effort is most appreciated!

 

[Sims2789]

concentration camps are evil :flamedevi , but u did a nice job on the design. i might download it and use it as a work camp, with +1 gold, +1 food and +1 shield.

btw, minor tribes AND barbarian camps magically disapear once they are in your cities radius.
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[Ukas]

Sims: "btw, minor tribes AND barbarian camps magically disapear once they are in your cities radius."

I know, but you can make a _minor tribe resource_ which you can use for buildings like slave plantation, slave trade center, concentration camp, trading post (for nice civs) etc.

 

[Ukas]

I could add that I'm using that small village looking graphics you can find from GIDustins compiled resources. There is a 'slaves' resource too, but since I like to mod my game so that I can have different ways to interact with the minor tribe. For example if I want to be all democratic or republic there's trading post to increase trade etc. (planning others too for "nicer" govts). In monarchy you'll have an option to (slavery tech takes long time to research and its not needed to continue to next era) build slave buildings and wonders and with fascism you have concentration camps, you actually need to build them to increase production to a comparable level with non-fascist civs and reduce war weariness effects. I am making a mod about all this but it takes a long time before it's going to be ready.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Lately i've been messing with my own personal *mod*. I've been making a Germanic empire from scratch. I've been miss matching units from all over (replacing all of them for my civ just so it looks original) and adding in a few new techs/buildings. I just added in your concentration camps as follows:

It comes with a new tech called National Socialism which can be researched after Fascism. The concentration camp is a city improvement that is kinda expensive (still working that out during game play). It raises your cities production by 25%. Here's the catch though. It gives you 6 unhappy people in your city and 1 happy person in every other city. I'm still testing it out but i'm hoping it works out where it only worthwhile if done in all your cities at the same times ...

I'm currently playing the five city challenge maps I randomly make so with all cities owning a CC it should work out as one unhappy person.

Also, I made it so that every 10 turns it spits out a new unit: Forced Labour. This unit has all the same stats as a worker except Join City and it only works at 50% production as compared to the normal worker (I just used the captured worker graphic for this).

 

[Leonel]

Perhaps the Concentration/Work Camp should have Corruption reducing abilities. There weren't Berlin Concentration Camps or Gulags in the outskirts of Moscow.

 

[Ukas]

Originally posted by leonel
Perhaps the Concentration/Work Camp should have Corruption reducing abilities. There weren't Berlin Concentration Camps or Gulags in the outskirts of Moscow.

How about Sachsenhausen Camp in Oranienburg, 60 km north of Berlin?

There were not Gulag system work camps per se near Moscow, but there were transit camps and concentration camps, where people were collected especially when famous prisons such as Lyublyana, Mavrino, Krasnya Prest were just too small to hold all convicts. Also there were temporary work camps in the outskirts of moscow building roads, railroads, waterways etc. The system was using great masses of forced labor so IMHO it is quite safe to build a camp in the capital in a civ game.

 

[Corey]

This building is great for some wwII scenario!

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

idea: Why not use Concentration camp for double sacrifice bonus? It could be a symulation of the hebrews assassinations in this camp. The problem is that you must insert in the game a "Prisoner of war" unit with sacrifice flag enabled, that will be created as enslaved.

 

[Juka The Dumb]

it's a good place for people to conentrate on work.i love it ukas

 

[Ukas]

idea: Why not use Concentration camp for double sacrifice bonus? It could be a symulation of the hebrews assassinations in this camp. The problem is that you must insert in the game a "Prisoner of war" unit with sacrifice flag enabled, that will be created as enslaved.

That's a good idea. With C3C these old buildings find new uses.

I'm modelling my govts with buildings etc, especially fascism. Fascism as a system is so black&white and restrictive - as such it will never last long. It will not work without huge effort by the govt: propaganda, agitation, brainwashing, mass meetings, persecution, spying etc in strongest forms. Probably it is powerful during the wartime as it's focuses on physical strongness, but as a very simple & stupid system it neglects to understand the complexity of humanity and progress. So, how I see it player has to build lot of stuff in hurry and use all available means to make fascism work, and then it is only good for wartime. So, it's not just about better military police and better workers.