Burning 1st game questions

[MisterBarca]

Ok, so I just bought the game last week played almost a full game of Marathon/standard map/Emperor level, and I had two "burning" questions:

1. Research Agreements:

What is the point of Research Agreements? I had the first two I entered cancelled and thereafter I never entered into them again. It almost seems like a gimmick to help the AI exclusively?

2. Crossbowmen Promotions after they are upgraded to Riflemen:

When I upgraded my 1100 XP (yes, 1100 XP) Crossbowman into Rifleman, most of his Promotions seem inapplicable in combat. For instance, even though he had a +1 range Promotion and thus should have been able to attack targets 2 hexes away, he could only attack adjacent hexes. Is this a bug? Or is it designed? If it is designed, then what in the world is the point of getting a high XP ranged unit? Even with gazillions of Promotions, they cannot compete with Industrial era units as while remaining as Medieval ranged units, so the whole thing doesn't make sense.

 

[spider1]

The path from archer-crossbow to rifle makes no sense, I agree. There was another thread around here somewhere that discussed that. The suggestions was that the archer-crossbow would be promoted to some type of other ranged unit suitable for it's period. Which makes a lot of sense. All those ranged promotions are lost when promoting crossbows to rifles and that's such a waste of combat experience.

 

[Becomedeath]

Research agreements - Give you a random unknown tech when they're completed. They serve multiple purposes, not least that the AI is highly unlikely to start a war with you during the 30 turns that the agreement lasts. It's also a cunning way to deplete your enemys cash reserve before you start a war! Debateable if they're actually worth it though, there's a seperate thread on the matter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9742760

Crossbowmen upgrades - I class this like the Cavalry/Gunship issue in Civ 4, the promotion thing however I think is just badly thought out, but given the fact that you're effectively upgrading to a far superior unit in terms of sheer strength, it's a negligable loss in my view.

 

[anandus]

Research agreements - Give you a random unknown tech when they're completed.

Research only give a full tech if you have both Rationalism and the Porcelain Tower, otherwise a 50% tech boost.

 

[Becomedeath]

Ahh, I wondered why my "random" tech was always the one I was currently researching!

 

[Camikaze]

I'd be very surprised if the consensus was that RAs were not worth it, even after the nerf in the last patch. They are exceptionally useful, and necessary for higher difficulty levels (or so I've been led to believe...).

 

[MisterBarca]

The path from archer-crossbow to rifle makes no sense, I agree. There was another thread around here somewhere that discussed that. The suggestions was that the archer-crossbow would be promoted to some type of other ranged unit suitable for it's period. Which makes a lot of sense. All those ranged promotions are lost when promoting crossbows to rifles and that's such a waste of combat experience.

Do you have a link to that thread?

The problem changing the upgrading path is that Cannon/Artillery tree would be the only ranged alternative to Rifleman, and Cannon/Artillery might be a bit over-powered with 1100 XP worth of Promotions

I also do not understand why they made separate Ranged/Melee Promotions on many Promotions that can work for both: For instance, why have Blitz and Logistics, when you can simply have 1 unified Promotion that gives an extra attack?

 

[Becomedeath]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416221

 

[Johan de Witt]

The problem changing the upgrading path is that Cannon/Artillery tree would be the only ranged alternative to Rifleman, and Cannon/Artillery might be a bit over-powered with 1100 XP worth of Promotions

You can achieve that by not building archers but catapults. Catapults upgrade to trebuchets who upgrade to cannons.

I also do not understand why they made separate Ranged/Melee Promotions on many Promotions that can work for both: For instance, why have Blitz and Logistics, when you can simply have 1 unified Promotion that gives an extra attack?

If it would be the same promotion, a ranged unit with a bonus against rough hexes would get a defense bonus while in a rough hex.

I would very much like to get the promotions converted when upgrading to a musketman, get a refund of all the XP or (preferably) a mobile ranged unit for the industrial era+

 

[King_Course]

Anyway. It's a good idea to get the promotions that carry over, like March and Cover and Logistics.

 

[Misterboy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure high-level players don't build archers and they tend to avoid crossbowmen like the plague.

There are exceptions of course, but siege weapons are where it's at.

 

[ColinTH]

Ok, so I just bought the game last week played almost a full game of Marathon/standard map/Emperor level, and I had two "burning" questions:

1. Research Agreements:

What is the point of Research Agreements? I had the first two I entered cancelled and thereafter I never entered into them again. It almost seems like a gimmick to help the AI exclusively?

At high levels post patch, they are being cancelled on a regular basis, we have just spent our remaining gold to get one, and the AI civ who has 50,000 gold just declares war on a whim. I feel the same as you, I am going to play dual player games until the next patch, or maybe until someone on this forum enlightens me! Maybe go back to playing Archipelago maps where they declare war less often.

2. Crossbowmen Promotions after they are upgraded to Riflemen:

This needs sorting.

 

[ColinTH]

To MisterBarca

Experiment last night. - Yes you can still make RAs playing Archipelago, the date is 1440 and so far 17/18 succesful, the only failure was when the Japanese got wiped out just before completion! Oh! and it's not due to the strength of my army because all I have is - 1 caravel - 1 artillery and 1 rifleman.
I havn't got a hope in hell of winning this game, it was purely a Researh Agreement experiment.

1 - I havn't allied with any City States.
2 - I swapped or sold open borders every time I was requested.
3 - Traded in different ways with all the AI civs.
4 - Never made a friendship ageement (you sometimes get drawn into wars if you do).
5 - Never denounced any civs.
As a consequence of the above, all the remaining seven civs would like to be friends with me.

I hope this helps....GL

 

[Bezurn]

The path from archer-crossbow to rifle makes no sense, I agree. There was another thread around here somewhere that discussed that. The suggestions was that the archer-crossbow would be promoted to some type of other ranged unit suitable for it's period. Which makes a lot of sense. All those ranged promotions are lost when promoting crossbows to rifles and that's such a waste of combat experience.

Not entirely correct here. The promotions aren't lost, they still have an effect on the unit as a rifleman ect. However, the promotions only apply to attacking on the given terrain and not to defense. If you're in enough wars and get them upgraded soon enough they can be devastating on offense, especially once they grab the promotions for terrain as riflemen. When I have a archer get some good combat action I typically take him up 2 ranks in either rough or open, then grab march with the 3rd promotion. It's rare to have one get to the 4th ring. I my current game I have 2 scout archers that are going to be very deadly if I can keep them alive long enough.

I think they are fine as is after playing some more and realizing how to use them more effectively once rifles come into play. Just make sure when you attack you'll have some mounted units to jump ahead of them to prevent a counter attack killing them.

 

[RuntimeError]

If i remember correctly the RA cancel and completion animations are the same. The AI never cancelled a RA on me

There are mods that replace the ranged promotions to melee promotions when you upgrade to rifleman