Buying Settlers -- why is this soooooo good?

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I know this is going to seem like a stupid question but what the hell, right?

If I've got 500 gold to burn, why does it make more sense to buy a settler than to take 5 or 6 turns, build the settler, settle him, and then use that $$ to buy a library, or lighthouse, or whatever that new town needs that it will take 15 or 20 turns for it to build on its own?

My suspicion is that the answer is that capitols are the lifeblood of a Civ, and you want it growing at all times, but something in me thinks it just seems a little wasteful, buying something in the most productive city and having to take 20 turns to build something in your least productive city.

Thanks ... and be nice

 

[slo]

actually a great question.
slo

 

[raatmarien]

Because if you buy a settler you don't lose out on growth. At least, that's why I rather buy a settler than build it if I have the money.

 

[Browd]

The most common response is that settler production stagnates your capital at the very time you want it to grow, grow, grow. So, where you've taken Tradition, you want (all things being equal) to buy settlers and keep growing while you build granaries, water mills, lighthouses and such.

In contrast, where you've taken Liberty/Collective Rule for the faster settler production in your capital, settler production takes half the turns (e.g., the 5 or 6 turns you mention in your post), so rush-buying granaries, etc. can make more sense.

 

[evilcat]

Advantage of buying settler when on tradicion is that it dont stop growth in any of your cities, and you have the settler now, instead 6 turn later. With liberty it is a little different since when anybody else builds 1 settler liberty have 3. And poping one more is not hard, while getting library missing to NC may be the better idea.

 

[Glexarn]

Time and growth penalty are important downsides early game when you have a lot of stuff to deal with and cutting out time for hardbuilt settlers can set you behind. Early game a settler will generally take a fair bit longer than 5-6 turns unless you're liberty (in which case just hardbuild settlers in the capital if you don't need to grow, or out of your second city you got with the free settler if your capitol can't spare time, and it's whatever).

Also, what else are you gonna do with the extra gold if you aren't getting in early wars? Unless I need a building immediately (like rushbuying libraries to get NC asap), I'd rather have a city for 500g than a shrine or lighthouse or granary or whatever. Relative to what you get out of your purchase, buildings are expensive and settlers are cheap - a colliseum is the same price as a settler, for example.

 

[Catan_Settler]

It's really all about the growth. You see, the reason one would pick Tradition is because you are pursuing population growth as the backbone of your empire. As opposed to Liberty which is focused on land aquisition or horizontal (wide) growth. So yeah, growth growth growth is what it's about. Essentially if you're pursuing Tradition it means you are pursuing a growth strategy. So pursue it, full stop, don't stagnate your growth, and the only way to do that when it comes to settlers is to buy them. As for whether it's best all the time, well no. Definitely not. Hell, Tradition alone is not the best in many cases. Nevermind dumping gold into civilians. It's a single player tactic, and it will get you killed in MP, so use with caution. Comp bow upgrades are better investment of early gold 9 times out of 10.

 

[chazzycat]

if you can build a settler in 5-6 turns, then yeah. Buying with gold wouldn't be the best investment. Usually this is done earlier in the game when it still takes much longer to hard build them.

 

[tommynt]

more expensive things are cheaper - i e u got more hammer per gold - settler most expensive thing to build.

Also its not sooo good ..

 

[noonex]

If you lack food and have a lot of hammers or is in unhappiness right now - sure it is better produce settler.

 

[Martin Alvito]

more expensive things are cheaper - i e u got more hammer per gold - settler most expensive thing to build.

Also its not sooo good ..

Not entirely. Worker is 70 for 310 , or 4.43 /. Settler is 106 for 500 , or 4.72 /. The lower the ratio, the more efficient the purchase.

When you buy a Settler, you're really buying a growth step. You have to balance that against the accelerated development an earlier Worker would buy you.

I'm still experimenting with openings to figure out the conditions under which one should buy a Worker over a Settler, and vice versa.

 

[tommynt]

Not entirely. Worker is 70 for 310

1 exemption doesnt brake the rule

Building Settlers isnt as bad as some make it to be - in my last game i built one at size 2 and with few chops it got out fast and gave me a great 2nd city turn 25

I'm still experimenting with openings to figure out the conditions under which one should buy a Worker over a Settler, and vice versa.

well the 1. worker to work the lux will allways be worth it - but it ll also allways be worth stealing workers

 

[Martin Alvito]

Building Settlers isnt as bad as some make it to be - in my last game i built one at size 2 and with few chops it got out fast and gave me a great 2nd city turn 25

Yeah, I've been doing that more often of late as well, though you'd have to be pretty lucky with an idiot of an AI to be able to chop that early. 2x Scout -> Worker -> Settler seems to work relatively well if you have a good reason for it.

well the 1. worker to work the lux will allways be worth it - but it ll also allways be worth stealing workers

In general it seems that buying a Worker at 310 is still a good move. The only problem is getting that quickly without hard building a Worker early.

 

[Tich]

Yeah, I've been doing that more often of late as well, though you'd have to be pretty lucky with an idiot of an AI to be able to chop that early. 2x Scout -> Worker -> Settler seems to work relatively well if you have a good reason for it.

Prolly need a Shrine in there before the Worker if you want a decent Pantheon on Deity. Otherwise I agree.

In general it seems that buying a Worker at 310 is still a good move. The only problem is getting that quickly without hard building a Worker early.

The way I see it is this. You have the choice of buying 1 Settler or 2 Workers (not exactly but that's basically the trade-off in practice). Those 2 Workers are going to get the sellables upgraded in my expos asap and start improving food tiles to get growing. I can then sell those luxuries to rush buy my Library in my 4th city and grab other Workers. I like having like 6-7 Workers for 4 cities and just start spamming farms and upgrading everything and selling it all asap. I'm fine with producing Settlers from my Cap because pretty soon it'll be working pure farm tiles and it'll grow to 30 pop or whatever still.

Rush buying Settlers, on the other hand, doesn't do me much good. If you don't have a bunch of workers to upgrade everything then they just kind of sit there. Every luxury is worth a Worker (things like embassies and meeting CSes and such will cover the rest) so I'd rather get a ton of workers early to get my cities going fast than have 4 fast cities with nothing going on in them.

 

[Moriarte]

I'm still experimenting with openings to figure out the conditions under which one should buy a Worker over a Settler, and vice versa.

Good hammer tiles early on. Buy worker on (say) turn 17, improve mines, produce settlers.

No good hammer tiles, but 4 cottons? Same thing: get worker, improve cottons, buy settlers.

 

[Tich]

Good hammer tiles early on. Buy worker on (say) turn 17, improve mines, produce settlers.

No good hammer tiles, but 4 cottons? Same thing: get worker, improve cottons, buy settlers.

How do you buy a Worker on turn 17 O.O? I'm thinking like turn 35 if you steal one on turn ~25 from a nearby CS, walk it there and immediately improve + sell a luxury to someone who DOF'd you that early. For 17 to work you'd need to like steal a Worker from a nearby civ and improve a mining resource.

 

[Moriarte]

Just an example, Tich.

Perhaps, too optimistic. I like early workers. It is still possible to get one on turn 17 one way or another.

 

[Tich]

Just an example, Tich.

Fair enough.

 

[joshua43214]

In my mind, buying a settler is the same as buying 2 pop for 500G. In the early game you will add 1 or 2 pop to a cap in the time it takes to build a settler, and the settler is 1 pop by itself. Getting two works by buying/stealing gets me stuff to sell to buy a couple of pop