1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Byzantium Sacred Sites Culture Victory Guide (T170 pangaea all standard)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sadato, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,283
    SS piety strat is quite difficult on deity, and I could never get it to work. I either miss the buildings, or get reformed too late and lose SS. Even if you manage to get it, getting past the massive cultures of deity ai is a challenge. I think I only seen it done once.
    About that Songhai map, I went 5 city trad and still got Dow from Liz, pretty crazy neighbors. I was only lucky because my city was easily defensible and she made peace easily.
     
  2. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Beograd
    Liz and Attila are pretty much always like that. Your best bet would be to have them go kill others, but despite all my bribes they simply didn't want to go away all game. It was a struggle
     
  3. Plumfairy

    Plumfairy Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    355
    FYI: If you're willing to savescum, you can always reload if an AI chooses SS; the AI don't seem to be following a strategy when they choose their reformation belief. So as long as you have the "reseed random number" option selected when the game starts, they'll choose another reformation belief after the reload.

    BTW, even using the savescum technique, I haven't gotten SS to really work, and I only play on Immortal. Even if you generate lots of early faith, you need to found a religion, enhance that religion, and only *then* can you start buying the religious buildings. By that time, at least one of the AIs has usually generated enough culture that my early tourism doesn't really have a hope of culturally dominating them. It doesn't help that choosing piety policies + focusing on early faith means I often expand kinda slow, which means I don't have that many cities where I can put the religious buildings.
     
  4. consentient

    consentient Domination!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    I think that if you have only warmongers in your game then SS on Deity is quite feasible, though I've not achieved it yet myself. But it's the Morocco/Egypt/etc. types you have to watch out for
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,635
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    This diplomatic penalty can (sometimes) happen as soon as you hit 5 cities if you do them really fast, if you have more than 1.5 the average (of other civs) it triggers.

    It's called the reckless expander and is a huge diplo hit to all your neighbours, giving almost as much negative points as a backstab.

    This binary, all or nothing, diplo modifier is VERY annoying which is why I overhauled it in my mod to give it 4 stages instead of 1.
     
  6. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Romania
    So basically you need to wait for the AI to have 4 cities before building your 5th?
     
  7. holyvin

    holyvin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9
    Spoiler :
    Yeah its from the DCL. I reeditted to include it as spoiler. I forgot to hide it. Mistake :X. Also from what I learn the geopolitics I read around is really important and affects the build which is why i got backstab in such manner. I still can't predict the ai and I slack of at times so yea, poor ai diplomacy. Yeah I really dont have much idea of the total limit of city spammed.

    My 4th city was kind of close like 7-8 hexes away from attila expansion but it was separated by the mountain. I couldnt grasp sometimes how its consider "coveting ur lands" when its on the other side. So yeah I was kind of confused but I still went with it and this is what happen lol. Theres another thing where AI's are at war at times and I had my scout looking that they were not even engaging, just sitting in their base. Paid them to war and they get ur spoils and do nothing lol and it becomes weird when those warmongers i paid instead decided to attack me when their at war with another one? Anyone experienced this? [I had no army]

    Another question - Is there a penalty for waging longer wars with AI? It seemed so cause most of the time AI's seemed more and more hostile and I am confused why
     
  8. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,635
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    If you don't want the penalty ever, yes. Or have a huge military

    The logic is as such:
    Every turn the AI makes the following tests for a Player

    1. Calculate the average number of cities owned by civs (Player excluded)
    2. If player far then false
    3. If player cities < 4 then false
    4. If player cities < 1.5 average then false
    5. If player strength > civ strength then false
    6. Else true

    Then during its diplo calculation it applies penalties if the above returns true.
     
    beetle likes this.
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    5,892
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    Ouch! I have definitely triggered this often playing wide! This is disappointing news, and it explains much of my problems with that Songhai map. But better to hear the bad news than to be ignorant I suppose...

    I have to assume that the < 1.5 test uses a floor function, and that the average number of cities owned is rounded down too. I probably know how many cities my neighbors have, but the average number would be just a guess. I have little chance of player strength > civ strength -- and nor did I realize the penalty was so harsh. Definitely means I need to work Liberty differently!
     
  10. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,635
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    No the average is a float (decimal number).

    As a side note it explains why early conquest can get you this penalty. You will increase your city number while decreasing the average.
     
  11. Beorn-eL-Feared

    Beorn-eL-Feared Idiot riding pedals

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    5,777
    Location:
    R³ x T's nbhd of North singularity
    Player strength countering it is a very interesting tidbit though. Never would've guessed that part.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    5,892
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    Oh, that explains too why I have sometimes seen this red warning 100 turns after my last founded expo. Most recently, I was not conquering that much either. Really surprised me, but I am certain circumstances would have met your filter.

    That bit does not surprise me, but isn't score a good proxy for player strength relative to civ strength? I frequently find myself kicking the tar out an AI, but they still think I should be giving up cities for peace (I guess because my score is lower, and they are producing units as fast as I am killing them). So I don't see the player strength check helping much.
     
  13. Codered999

    Codered999 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    I found a way to beat this cheese directly with counter culture. Polynesia, Large Islands map, spam Maoi heads. Spam island cities before Byzantine does.
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    5,892
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    @Codered999, is that with Sacred Sites, or are you just talking about CV / anti-CV generally?

    At the risk of being off topic, if you like Polynesia for Deity CV (and who doesn’t), check out DCG26.
     

Share This Page