BZ4 - A race to the Stars

[Snaproll]

I think it is folly to rely on the Great Library - as we saw in Bz3, even in always war we may not get a leader...

It will be awesome if we get it, but we can't rely on it.

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Snaproll
I think it is folly to rely on the Great Library - as wee saw in Bz3, even in always war we may not get a leader...

It will be awesome if we get it, but we can't rely on it.

True, we should not rely on it. Hence we should keep doing our trades etc. All I was suggesting is we could try to get a leader if we are sure we can prosecute a war without any significant loss.

TGL is not necessary at all, but it makes life so much simpler.

 

[NewDestroyer]

i was reading ur awd game betazed and i got 1 question, this paragraph confused me:

"Mao's first target was a gem city of Japan. Not only would he get a new luxury it should be a good launching point to attack Japan's core too. In all of Mao's attacks the Rider's movement three helped immensely. Culture size 1 cities could be attacked with riders from outside with minimal losses since they retreated when they were reduced to 1 hp. Then finally when the city was taken all riders moved in. The barracks from Sun Tzu healed them in one turn and they were ready to take the next city in another turn. When the riders left the city to attack the next city the current city was abandoned and razed to the ground. This was done since there were not enough riders to occupy every city and attack other cities too."

did u just do that w/ size 1 cities or all cities?

 

[betazed]

By the way, does anybody know what is the earliest known SS launch in Deity?

That way we will have a benchmark to measure our goal and performance.

IIRC, I saw a 1200AD something SS victory in one of the GOTMs.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

In regards to the Modern Armor Line: No can do
Synth Fibers give...3.. SS parts, if im not mistaken. I know its needed.

edit: i think it was 1150AD. DaveMcW. Fastest SS victory on the books

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
In regards to the Modern Armor Line: No can do
Synth Fibers give...3.. SS parts, if im not mistaken. I know its needed.

Of course

I an creating the save. Should post it in a couple of minutes.

 

[betazed]

Here is the start.

It looks like an excellent start (the 6th one that came up).

There is a cattle, a lux, BG and beside a river. What more do we want?

Earp you are up for 20 turns.

 

[Earp]

The settler is standing on a BG. Do we move him or settle on the first turn? We will not get the extra shield of the BG until we are size 7, but I hate losing a turn by moving the settler. There are two BGs visible(besides the one we are standing on) and a third one becomes visible when I move the worker to the cow. If we move, I would move one tile SE or one tile NW. We would still be on the river and have immediate access to the cow and wine.

I vote for founding were we are standing.

Here is another view of the world.

Thoughts?

 

[betazed]

I vote for founding where we are standing. With palace expansion we will have five better squares to work on before we start working on grasslands. So we have enough to work with. And in any case as you pointed out we will not be losing the BG by founding on it.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Where we are. As Betazed said, we got a wonderful spot to work with.

 

[Earp]

0 - 4000 BC
Move worker SW to cattle.
After much deliberation, found Seoul where we are standing. Another cow appears two tiles to the SE. It looks like we have another settler factory. Irrigate the SW cow and mine the SE cow for +5 fpt.
Production set to warrior.
Set research to Pottery at max.
Our opponents are the Spanish, Celts, Arabs, Aztecs, Americans, Zulu, Russians, Romans, Germans, Carthaginians, and Ottomans

1 - 3950 BC
Worker begins irrigation.

2 - 3900 BC


3 - 3850 BC


4 - 3800 BC


5 - 3750 BC
Worker finishes irrigation and begins road
Seoul Warrior --> Warrior
Move warrior E

6 - 3700 BC
Seoul grows. Increase slider.
Move warrior S

7 - 3650 BC
Move warrior S

8 - 3600 BC
Worker finishes road and moves to BG east of Seoul
Move warrior E

9 - 3550 BC
Seoul Warrior -->Warrior
Worker begins road
Fortify Warrior and turn off lux
Move warrior E. Spot two spice and a hut.

10 - 3500 BC
Move warrior NE to pop hut and get maps.
Seoul border expands and I see another hut 3 tiles NW of Seoul
MM Seoul. We only need 4 food to grow so I move citizen from second cow to wines to gain two gold this turn

11 - 3450 BC
Move warrior S
Seoul grows. Increase lux

12 - 3400 BC
Seoul warrior --> barracks(granary pre-build)
Move warrior1 S
Move warrior2 W
Worker finishes road and moves S to cow
Pottery is due in 8 and barracks are due in 10. Will we finish the researching pottery before building the barracks? Stay tuned and find out.

13 - 3350 BC
Move warrior1 S
Move warrior2 W
Worker begins road

14 - 3300 BC
Move warrior1 S
Move warrior2 N

15 - 3250 BC
Seoul grows. Increase slider and pottery slips one turn.
Move warrior1 S
Move warrior2 NE. Pops hut and gets barbs

IBT barb attacks warrior across river. We redline, but win.

16 - 3200 BC
Worker finishes road and begins mine. Pottery regains one turn on barracks
Move warrior1 W
Move warrior2 NW to mountain.

17 - 3150 BC
Move warrior1 W. Spots more wine
Move warrior2 fortifies on mountain.

18 - 3100 BC
Move warrior1 S
Pottery due next turn. Decrease research slider to 50%.

IBT Ottoman Spearman appears out of the fog SW of Seoul

19 - 3050 BC
Finish pottery. Set research to CB and turn research slider down to 0%.
Switch Seoul from Barracks that are due next turn to Granary, which is due in 5 turns.
Seoul grows. Increase luxury slider.
Move warrior1 S
Move warrior2 W
The bearded man who calls himself Osman knows the secrets of Masonry and Warrior Code. He is unwilling to trade Mas and WC for Pott, Alpha, and 15 gold. He has 10 gold and 3 cities. His best offer is Masonry and 7 gold for Alphabet. He seems to place a high value on alphabet but a very low value on pottery. I hold off on trading Alphabet this turn because I would like to meet another civ and be able to trade it to both of them. I have a feeling that Osman may have already met someone else and may be able to trade Alphabet to them.

20 - 3000 BC
Move warrior1 W
Move warrior2 W
Trade situation with Osman is the same. Is this a good deal? Should we take it or hold off and try to meet another civ? I think maybe we should take it. I think that if Osman knew another civ, he would have more techs than just Mas and WC.

Here is the World as we know it.

To the mighty Snaproll:
1. Seoul grows every four turns. Watch closely so that you can increase the luxury slider and keep it from rioting. Of course it will grow every other turn after the granary is built.
2. You can see one barb from the hut I popped to the north. There is another barb in the fog to the north. Sorry about that.
3. Mine/road the 4 BGs on the river before the 3 BGs not on the river.
4. I would wait until we are ready to found city #2 before building a road on the wines. I think I would mine the BG with the road next, followed by the BG on the river two tiles SW of Seoul before crossing the river to build a road on the wines. A road on the wines will only save us 1 gpt right now. 1 gpt can be gained faster by building a road on the BGs. It is 1/2 of the turns to build a road on grasslands than a road on hills. I do not think we should mine the hill until we are out of despotism. It takes too many worker turns to mine the hill for only one shield of improvement. It is much better to mine grasslands than waste turns mining hills when in Despotism. I point this out because I think 95% of the players would connect the wines almost immediately. Can anyone find fault with my logic?

I think we should pause after Snaproll's turns to do a dotmap. We are going to be producing lots of settlers and need to think about city placement. I think we should rapidly expand to the South before sending any settler north.

The SAVE

 

[NewDestroyer]

damn we got some nice land . Glad we won't have to worry about the onslaught of archers and swordsman . I hope this game will turn out to be alot less stressfull while doing turns .

 

[betazed]

Snap, you are up for 20 turns.

EDIT: I think we should do the trade. It is a fair deal and if Ozzy meets another civ and gets the techs that we already have then we will have lost the deal.

I see your logic for not connecting the wine. But when we have two cities the cost of connecting should start to pay for itself, right?

 

[Snaproll]

Ok I see it, but I just got home, and I can't play until tomorrow. Sorry to hold things up right at the start, but I'll play within 24.

 

[Earp]

Originally posted by betazed
I see your logic for not connecting the wine. But when we have two cities the cost of connecting should start to pay for itself, right?

I think we should go ahead and connect the wines when we found our second city. I think this will be about the time we finish mining the two BGs on this side of the river. With the luxury tax required for the capital, the second city will not need the wines until it is size 3 or 4.

As I repeatedly stated in Bz3, I think we should use the capital to produce settlers every four turns and use our other cities to produce workers and MPs. Producing a settler every four turns allows you to expand almost as rapidly as the Deity AI. IMO, it is impossible to expand too quickly in Civ III. We should have 15 or 16 towns by 1000 BC.

 

[NewDestroyer]

offtopic: lol i played an always war as the chinese on regent lol, its so easy i have about 3x as many cities as the ai and its not even 1000 bc yet. i deicided to stop playing it because curroption was taking away too much city production since i was over the optimal number of cities.

btw don't forget i will be gone from tommorow morning to the 14th.

 

[Snaproll]

I couldn't wait until tomorrow:

Turn 0 – 3000 B.C. – Things look good. I agree with mining the BG – we need to have all of Seoul’s workers on improved tiles. As it stands we are producing 6 spt – we need at least 8 (actually 7.5) on average to get a settler every four turns. That means more mines. I go ahead and make the trade, as Betazed and Earp suggest. We’ll see if it backfires. Depends on contacts.

BT – nothing

Turn 1 – 2950 B.C. – It’s too bad we don’t have a forest – I could get the granary a turn earlier. As it sits Seoul will grow before the granary completes. Oh wait, if the mine completes next turn it will.

BT – Mine completes. Both granary and growth are due next turn. Our highest priority is to get the settler out before Seoul goes to size 7.

Turn 2 – 2900 B.C Mine completes and granary completion and growth due next turn. Worker moves back to BG and mines. Tundra to the North, deserts to the SW.

Turn 3 – 2850 B.C. Granary complete and food box also emptied. I could have delayed the growth by a turn to keep the food box half full, but all that would have meant is that the city would grow to size 7 before producing the settler, emptying the food box anyway. I start a settler before an escort to keep that very thing from happening. We are at 8 shpt and 5 fpt at size six, so we will indeed get a settler every 4 turns, but only if we are at size six! Therefore, still need at least one more mined BG, I think. Fortunately, don’t need more lux tax at size 6.

Turn 4 – 2800 B.C. – Pop a hut, deserted.

Turn 5 – 2750 B.C. Pop another hut, deserted. Osman pulls in Wheel this turn. We can’t trade for it. Normally I would’ve researched BW before turning things off. If we are stuck alone with Oz we could be in trouble having to buy everything at monopoly. Oh wait we have BW. Sorry my

Turn 6 – 2710 B.C. Nothing…

BT – Ottos start the Pyramids! Settler due next turn…

Turn 7 – 2670 B.C. - Since the city was due to grow and build a settler at the same time, the settler pops and the city is a size 5 with half it’s food left! Perfect! If it runs 7 shields for 2 turns and then 8 after it grows back to size 6 it will get the settler in 4 turns. After the mine currently under construction is complete we can keep it on this cycle forever. Lets see where to send him… I decide to send him north, towards the wheat. The road leads south so I thought about sending him that way, but I want that wheat. Note he’s unescorted for now – I don’t want to break up the settler cycle in Seoul. That city can produce a settler 4 turns forever – don’t touch it!

Turn 8 – 2630 – B.C. – Well I know Earp wanted me to mine the BG before connecting the wines, but Seoul is already at a settler every 4 turns so there really isn’t any need. I move worker to connect the wines. It will save us some cash. Hope that’s ok. Osman isn’t dealing AT ALL…

Turn 9 – 2590 B.C. – Os must be popping some huts, because he’s now got CB. We really need another contact. Monopoly is killing us.

Turn 10 – 2550 B.C. I trade Osman pottery + 100 gold for CB. It’s the only tech he has that he will even consider selling, and if we keep the huge treasury he’ll just demand it from us. Could be We give him no gpt though.

BT – Seoul builds another settler. Next one due in 4 with no MM. Goes south towards spices.

Turn 11 – 2510 B.C. - P’yongyang founded on a river within reach of wheat and 3 BG without expansion. 4 more BG on expansion! There is an ottoman settler pair heading for our territory – I think it must be heading for a resource on that strip of unrevealed terrain just to the SW of us.

Turn 12 – 2470 B.C. – Not much this turn. Trying to decide if I should send scout to reveal terrain close to us or try to make another contact.

Turn 13 – 2430 B.C. – Found Wonsan south of Seoul. It doesn’t have spice in range yet, but will on expansion. Two BG within range immediately, and will get a flood plain on expansion. I think this city should build a temple soonish.

Turn 14 – 2390 B.C. – Nothing. Another settler due next turn.

BT – complete road to wines.

Turn 15 – 2350 B.C. - Move worker south to improve a BG for use in Wonsan. Pyongwang should kick out more workers after its warrior. Lower lux tax – we are at +12 gpt. Actually, scratch that worker plan, as it would have to move across the river. Move him W – will build a road (and ONLY a road) and then mine a BG for Pongyang. Going to move newest settler toward the remaining wined and flood plains. Hopefully we can keep Oz from getting wines. Os gets Mysticism this turn. Of course, no trades available.

BT contact with the Spanish! With a SoD coming for us consisting of 6 warriors!! Oh crap!

Turn 16 – 2310 B.C. This is crazy. Can we even defend against this upcoming attack? I buy warrior code from the Spanish for 7gpt. Maybe they’ll break the deal, and it will give us the option to rush archers if we need to. The Spanish have Wheel, Mysticism, IW, and WC over us while the Ottos are missing IW.

BT – they are still coming.

Turn 17 – 2270 B.C. - I feel bad about this, but I’m not sure what I could’ve done. Seoul was on settler mode and I didn’t want to take it off. The other two cites just haven’t had time to build any military or grow yet. Lux back up to 30 as Seoul is size 6 – watch this as you can run 20% when it’s at 5!

BT – The Spanish stack diverts and goes for the barbarians! Whew!

Turn 18 – 2230 B.C. – I find the coast out to the West. Another settler due next turn.

BT – Yep those Spanish are just killing barbs. I wonder if the gpt turned them back, or they were never coming after us at all. We will have to pay the full gpt deal though…

Turn 19 – 2190 B.C – Pusan founded with some overlap with Wonsan, but it pulls in 5 flood plains and two plains graps with expansion. Next settler is heading towards red dot. This will get us several more first ring BG in use.

Turn 20 – 2150 B.C. Ok that’s it. The next settler is one turn from it’s spot I think, although once a real dotmap is made that may change.

SITUATION:

Growth: A+ Keep those 4 turn settlers churning!
Economy B – Making quite a bit of money (although we are giving 7gpt to Spain). The two Eastern BG around Seoul need roads more than they need mines, and should get those soon. As long as Seoul stays on it’s cycle however, adding mines to those tiles will just waste more shields.
Production – C - Our cities are still too young to be producing much. Pyongyang could be switched from a second to a worker, but that would put it back at size 1. Wonsan should go barracks after this warrior methinks, or temple to pull in spices. Pusan is fairly high food although it does have some plains for shields. The next city, along with Wonsan should churn military.
Tech – C – Otto is up Mysticism and Wheel. Spain is up those 2 plus IW. Unfortunately, I can’t get either. IF we get a chance to get IW before Otto, then by all means do it and trade it to him for his two techs. That’s unlikely, however. Unless we find some more people, we’ll be stuck buying from these two at 3rd like I did with WC. Expensive.
Military – D – Basically we have one warrior per city. This is what happens when you crank a settler every four turns!
Scouting - C - I pulled back one of the scouts when that stack showed up. As such, we have a lot left to reveal.

MM notes – Seoul is a 4 turn settler factory all by itself. Don’t touch it. Like I said you could road the two Eastern BG. The important thing: 20% luxes at size 5, and 30% at size 6! At least until it gets another MP (hopefully soon) at which point we can sit at 20%.

Whew! I hope that was good. I don’t have time for a real dotmap tonight. I trust someone will put one up while I’m asleep!


The Game

 

[Snaproll]

Settler is heading for red dot. There is a warrior just N of him heading for guard duty.

 

[betazed]

Snap and Earp.

We have a settler factory rolling and lots of good lands and rivers. Things are looking up. Now all we need is to make more contacts.

Here is my dotmap.

Current settler should settle red-dot. Then pink and white and read and white are priority. North and North-west are our backyard, so we can fill it up after these three.

Purple-in-white-bar is a harbor town. So is Yellow-dot. I see land in teh direction of the arrow. So once MM is there we should shoot a galley to do some exploration and get some contact.

 

[betazed]

@SAAM: You are up for 10 turns.

Read Snap's notes to plan your turns.

I just want to add one thing. For scouting our warrior should be heading south since that seems to the direction of both the civs and we see coast on everyside apart from south.