C2C - Combining C2C and RFC - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization Mod

[rightfuture]

Combining C2C -Caveman2Cosmos with RFC -Rhye's and Fall of Civilization

Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization (project Development Forum)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=204
One of the most popular and official Civ IV mods

This Thread is for everyone who would like to see ideas from both mods come together.
Any idea from both mods can be discussed here:
- including porting an idea from one mod to the other.
- moving sections of code / worked out ideas.
- creating a partial or complete merge of the projects.
- bringing the communities together to tackle new ideas and overcome problems to improve Civ and both/either mod..
All for the goal of continuing to make the best Civ experience possible for the widest variety of players.

Talk about what you like and you may inspire someone to get those ideas moving.

Inspired by

Spoiler :

Just a question:
We already have a fully done GEM, so I wonder, maybe SOMEONE would come up to a "challenge" of making some version of RFC-style quests for C2C?
Despite what you could think, this WASN'T triggered by my experience with them recently - I rather have been thinking about ti for a VERY long time already.
It would entail making AREAS on the map, as well as some slight UI fixes and goal formulating - Python it is.
If anyone of you is familiar with the RFC Python (I did look through it, but I'm a total NOOB Python-wise), it doesn't look too complicated to adjust to C2C's ways of civilizations.
Again, if nobody wants to do so - then nobody wants to do so, and that's all.
But MAYBE someone would want, just wasn't motivated enough...
Just imagine, how GREAT can "C2C: Relive the History" become.

[MAP] Acularius' GEM for Caveman2Cosmos
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457501

and

Spoiler :

Wait, wasn't most of that already in Civ4 Vanilla?
Or am I playing C2C too much???
Like, Congress, aka UN and AP, having "stop trading with X".
Sure, some options are new, but are they really?
Also, stupid AI will keep being stupid.
I failed to understand some of their reasons ALL the time.
Like, REDing out some stuff I need, while they keep pretending we're friends (with some +5 relationship).
End note: I haven't actually played Civ5, but from what I'e read/heard about it - I won't EVER.
Or definitely not while I still can play RFC and C2C.

Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377892&page=438

Ultimately I would like to see ideas get developed across both mods, so we don't end up with a bunch of partial and fractured combinations of each mod.
I would love to see the ideas flow both ways, and the communities come together to work on challenges to improve Civ!

Feel free to start up and spark the ongoing conversation.

What do you like most about RFC?
What do you like most in both mods?
What would you like to see end up in either mod?
(You might also want to mention it in the RFC forum as well)

 

[rightfuture]

[reserved for idea organization]

We could setup a thread in both project forums and engage both communities for all those people who want to see this.

 

[Snofru1]

Now that´s an excellent idea - Rhye´s is the one mod that replays world´s history most realistic as far as I know. I tried to play it again recently but I simply found it was lacking in too many areas compared to C2C and gave up.

What I like? Mostly the events that give you that feeling that history is repeating - If you are Egypt you can be sure that there will be huge Arabian troops standing at your boarders after 640 AD...

 

[Hydromancerx]

I played it way back before even learning about Rise of Mankind. Such a scenario would be great to have. Especially with the whole Prehistoric era to simulate. It would be nice to see glaciers and climate chnage from that time simulated on the GEM map.

Likewise it would be nice to see Trans-Human and Galactic Era stuff playing out too.

 

[strategyonly]

Do you really know what your talking about on this mod, this is a COMPLETELY different "Monster" to do. You would have to START from scratch with this mod, sorry. . . SO

 

[rightfuture]

I'm talking about what people want to see, and starting to discuss bringing ideas together.
RFC has vastly different pacing and purpose, but some of ideas are not mutually exclusive or impossible to implement. It may take a lot of time people don't have, but it may motivate people to start trying.
This thread is a sounding board to discuss all the possibilities, and support for the ideas.

 

[civfan613]

@rightfuture
I think your second spoiler meant THIS:

Spoiler :

rightfuture
I already posted an idea on the GEM MAP thread up there - though nobody replied yet.
I'd LOVE to see RFC-style scenario for C2C.
It's not even that hard to program, I guess, but it WILL take a lot of imagination to make all those QUESTS for so many civs.
(I'd really love to see ALL available civs in it, definitely.)
And with so many new concepts in C2C compared to even RFC - this would be HUGE hit..!
Ah, sweet dreams...
Maybe, just maybe...
I'd SO do it myself - but I'm confused even by RFC's conditions, even more so to make any from scratch AND make it in Python...
Especially to make it real-time checking, like in RFC Dawn (much better quest UI, with detailed ongoing fulfillment info, like 5/10 resources captured or 500/1000 gold gathered, etc - not just the blunt NOT YET, which suddenly turns into NO).
And so on and so forth...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377892&page=438

No?

On-topic.
I like RFC for UHV (Unique Historical Victories).
With the vast span of C2C's additional abilities, we're open to much MORE (quality and quantity wise) UHVs.
Who said there must be only THREE???
Let's make TEN per civilization, spanning from Prehistoric to Galactic Eras.
You're Greek? What about having a Level 20 GREEK Hero before ending the Era that enables him?
You're American Indian? What about killing off 100 wild animals while in Prehistoric?
You're Chinese? What about being the first to reach a Size 50 city?
You're African? What about eating up 50 enemies through Cannibalism in 200 consecutive turns?
You're American? What about being the first to have 10 Culture resources in all your cities?
You're Arab? What about having no other religion than Islam in 50% of the world cities AND civs 10 turns after the last religion spawns?
You're Indian? What about getting 10 subdued animals before building your first Wonder OR your second city?
You're French? What about having a continuous war with English AND Russian for 300 consecutive turns before either of you builds their 3rd city?
You're German? What about destroying 5 civs in Europe AND razing 10 cities before building your 50th military unit?
And so on and so forth, I didn't even SCRATCH the possibilities...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@civfan613

Interesting ideas. But I think we should focus less on the civ you picked and more on the cultures you gain. For instance you have Mongolian and Sioux cultures. Achive an uber nomadic empire that has the best breeds of horses and a land empire that spans an entire content but all with nomadic camps instead of cities.

Or you have the Xiongnu and Chinese cultures. Become a large and united China. Collect other Asian cultures to become even stronger.

If it was not for the specific leaders I would say C2C would be better off with civs named after colors, than civilizations. It would be alot easier to understand that The Red Empire is made up of English and Russian cultures. Rather than the French civ is made up of English and Russian cultures.

 

[civfan613]

I disagree.
If you have both civs and cultures, and you actually choose civs when you start, the quests should be based on that.
OR!
Remove the actual civs altogether and leave merely the choice for European/EastAsian/WestAsian/African/NorthAmerican/SouthAmerican/Australian basic cultures as your "civs", with generic no-name "leaders" as well.
Which then should lead to you actually CHOOSING your (new) leader(s) AND actual nations based on the cultures you get later on.
Pretty much like it automatically works for AIs in RFC - the same civs get different leaders based on the time period.
You would also either choose the civ's name, or it would depend on your actual citizens.
Would actually make a nice twist in the quests:
Become the Spanish Brasil or Arabian Egypt or even American Australia.
Interesting, this would actually make C2C much more into an RPG-style game, cause you'd actually choose who you "look like".
But don't forget the actual quests, which COULD be attached to cultures, or even UNLOCKABLE.
This would become a race for the AMOUNT of quests, not just doing them as actual civs.
Yup, I even like this idea MORE.
This would both reduce the number of civs you'd NEED on the GEM (and the strain on your PC effectively), and also make your own game style AFFECT what quests you get.
Interesting indeed!!!

EDIT:
Just thought about reducing the "civs" number effectively, still covering the entire Earth.
Cultures by location (some examples, definitely will include more).
EUROPE
West Europe (England, France)
East Europe (Russia)
North Europe (Vikings)
South Europe (Greece, Rome)
Central Europe (Germany)
AFRICA
North Africa (Egypt, Carphage)
South Africa (Zulu)
West Africa (Mali)
East Africa (Ethiopia)
Central Africa (Kongo)
ASIA
North Asia (dunno, Inuit? maybe Uzbek and Mongols, if not)
East Asia (Japan, China)
South Asia (India, Indonesia)
West Asia (Israel, Arabs)
Central Asia (Persia, Babylon)
AMERICA
North America (America, Indians)
South America (Brasil, Indians)
Central America (Mexico, Indians)
AUSTRALIA
Australia (Australia, Aborigens)
TOTAL:
19 "civs", way less than 30+ of the original GEM (and it was lacking some for sure).

 

[Hydromancerx]

@civfan613

If you want to keep a large number of civs while still being generic you could go like this ...

Alpha = African
Beta = European
Gamma = Asian
Delta = Middle Eastern
Epsilon = North American
Zeta = South America
Omega = Oceanian

And then have each of those groups have a color such as Red Alpha, Blue Alpha, Green Zeta, etc.

If we add in more regions such as Central American it could become Kappa type. And this would also allow us to use existing civs just renamed and new flags (color with the greek symbol).

Some examples ...

Beta Purple = Roman
Beta White = English
Beta Blue = French
Epsilon Cyan = Maya
Epsilon Lime = Aztec
Alpha Orange = Carthage
Alpha Gold = Egypt
Alpha Yellow = Zulu
Gamma Magenta = China
Gamma Red = Japan

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@rightfuture
I think your second spoiler meant THIS:

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377892&page=438

No?

On-topic.
I like RFC for UHV (Unique Historical Victories).
With the vast span of C2C's additional abilities, we're open to much MORE (quality and quantity wise) UHVs.
Who said there must be only THREE???
Let's make TEN per civilization, spanning from Prehistoric to Galactic Eras.
You're Greek? What about having a Level 20 GREEK Hero before ending the Era that enables him?
You're American Indian? What about killing off 100 wild animals while in Prehistoric?
You're Chinese? What about being the first to reach a Size 50 city?
You're African? What about eating up 50 enemies through Cannibalism in 200 consecutive turns?
You're American? What about being the first to have 10 Culture resources in all your cities?
You're Arab? What about having no other religion than Islam in 50% of the world cities AND civs 10 turns after the last religion spawns?
You're Indian? What about getting 10 subdued animals before building your first Wonder OR your second city?
You're French? What about having a continuous war with English AND Russian for 300 consecutive turns before either of you builds their 3rd city?
You're German? What about destroying 5 civs in Europe AND razing 10 cities before building your 50th military unit?
And so on and so forth, I didn't even SCRATCH the possibilities...

Exactly what I was thinking almost but not quite going far enough. Unique Historical Victories is actually what I thought Cultural heritage might be about to start with. This will require much new stuff in the dll and the UI.

I was thinking that depending on difficulty level you would have to get 10 (easiest) up to 50 of these "achievements" to get this particular victory and that number would increase as you progressed through the eras!

I would have ones based on your base culture, your chosen civ (if we still have it) and each of the cultures you build. For example prehistoric/ancient (note all of these refer to stuff on my to build list for myths and trade goods that have other benefits by themselves.)

• - for African Culture (base) get Nok Sculpture (trade resource) before you get Iron - you don't build the wonder that give this just trade for it
• for European culture get "Beakers" before you get copper
• for Middle east - get "Stone Vessels" before you get copper
• for Asian - use subdued peacock to build "Peacock Throne" story
• and so on for some simple trade ones.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Yeah the Cultural Heritage mod proposal was awesome. I liked it because it was less about what civ you picked in the beginning and more about how you play the game and evolve your empire/culture.

This whole notion of Cultural Heritage is independent of your Civilization / Leader, and the other "Culture" Wonders / Units in the game. Cultural Heritage shapes your Civilization (whatever Civilization that may be) depending on your actions throughout history, and the start the game gives you. If you start near lots of Forest, your Cultural Heritage will be more likely to be influenced by that, if you start near Desert, again your Culture will adapt, as your citizens learn the ways of the Desert. If you start near lots of other players, you may be more likely to invest in espionage or diplomacy, and the game will reward you. If you start near lots of Barbarians, you could get a defensive trait, and so on.

Also, in most cases (depending on pre-requisites) more than one Civilization may choose the same Cultural Heritage as you so long as they meet the criteria (though with all the choices available it would be quite unlikely for two Civilizations to get the exact same traits throughout history).

If your Civilization's Unique Unit happens to be a certain type that a mission wants, you may be more likely to build this unit, and thus have more chance of completing the mission, so your Civilization (e.g. England) may influence you towards certain traits, but it is your actions which will give you these different traits, not prescribed options due to having a particular Civilization/Leader combination.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I like the Cultural Heritage idea as it is real rewards and challenging based on game play styles.

The Unique Victories allows a new type of victory one that you may not know of before you start the game.

 

[philipschall]

I propose a lighter solution: Ancient era start, so the major cradles of civilization are present (sumer, babs, egypt, india, china)

Civs emerge through 3 ways:
Preset spawn dates, that would only be allowed for civs that emerge from seemingly remote areas (Japan, Rome, Siam, Indonesia, Inca, Maya, Aztec, American indian tribes, mongolia, korea, persia, greece, vikings, germany, arabia, ethiopia, mali, etc.)

Civs that spawn when barbarian hordes conquer an area (France, russia, spain, england, turks, etc.) to simulate migration.

Civs that revolt when your national instability becomes too high (using Revolutions, not the archaic RFC model of stability via historicity). Examples being Carthage, Byzantium, Netherlands, Chinese substates, Indian substates, Mesoamerican substates, Substates of the Arab Caliphate, Colonial Civs, etc.

Cultural wonders are divided even more, most being unique buildings of your civ. However, present spawns of city states may also build cultural wonders. A South-Indian city state would spawn with the Tamil wonder at a certain date.

This approach is by no means deterministic in the conquests of certain
It would be rather hard to make preset spawn points for the variable civs so you can play as them after a certain turn, so it may require more than 2 scenarios. Due to the giant scope of this mod, especially in regards to the amount of buildings and properties, scenario work can be a real drag. If I choose to undertake help building the scenarios, I would probably cut out many buildings that I find extraneous (barber shop, candy shop). I will extrapolate on this later.

 

[civfan613]

So, is there a chance it WILL be done some day some way???

 

[rightfuture]

I think there is alot we can all do, if we encourage more discussion. I am glad to keep it up.

The first thing we should do is keep talking about it, we get more of what we encourage.

We could also break down the useful features of RFC and it's mods and list them here.
We could encourage some crosstalk with the RFC forums, having more people visit here, will likely encourage more conversation.
Pick the best feature of RFC, and start problem solving what could be done to implement it in C2C.
Ask questions. - not only can you learn more about how things are done, but it could get the integration of ideas moving.
Partner up, find people who agree with you and get them talking. (you can consider me interested)

I think the more we care about bringing RFC features to C2C, (and vice-versa),
the more we will see people from both communities here.

What do you think would be a good first step?

DH and Hydro - we should definitely keep exploring the Cultural Heritage ideas. What else from RFC do you find of interest at the moment?

Does anyone else want to see more ideas between RFC and C2C?

 

[civfan613]

I only want to see Unique Historical Victories (C2C-revamped obviously), the rest either was already implemented, or is less interesting compared to what C2C already has.
(The best being Revolutions mod, I guess. It's fun to mess with rebirthing civs, even if it annoys you when it's YOUR civ that keeps falling apart. )
UHVs are one thing that RFC trumps over ANY other mod, so why not combine that with THE greatest mod as well?

 

[stfoskey12]

Did this ever get anywhere? It seems like a pretty cool idea and something I've also wanted to have happen. The only problem is I don't have the time or the skills to do much modding.

 

[JosEPh_II]

No it didn't. Most of the ppl commenting here have little input anymore either.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Did this ever get anywhere? It seems like a pretty cool idea and something I've also wanted to have happen. The only problem is I don't have the time or the skills to do much modding.

Time is the big stopper here. Most of the current modders are working on other projects.