"C2C Concepts" of Civilopedia Re-write?

[cammcken]

I'm sorry, a lot of this information I would know if I spent more time lurking in these forums.

But I should point out that this menu could use a lot of revising.

First off, Leader Traits have their own entries in the Civilopedia, so they don't need to be listed in the Concepts menu.

Some small modpacks (Better Clock, Attitude Advisor, etc) that are inessential to game mechanics can be moved to a different category, or listed all together under an "Accessories" page.

Some very important game concepts are missing or need better explanation. For example, the new "Heal As..." mechanic isn't in the Pedia. Other concepts, like the Myths and Stories (made three times more confusing with the new rework) need more detailed explanations. (I've been placing these buildings randomly so far. I have no clue what effect they might have for unlocking wonders, city specialization, etc. )

The best part is, you don't need a coder to write these entries. You only need someone who reads the forums and understands the mechanics (and then a coder to put them into the Pedia). I would offer to do it myself, except I don't often get a break from rl to read all these posts.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are two files that define what the headings are in the two concept pages. These are CIV4BasicInfos.XML and CIV4NewConceptInfos.XML held in Assets/XML/BasicInfos. The text is held in GameText files (mostly) in the XML/Text folder.

There are two others that we don't currently use but may be able to use if we need to.

CIV4BasicInfos.XML contains all the stuff from Civ IV. I have done a little to update some of these where they have been superseded by C2C concepts.

CIV4NewConceptInfos.XML contains everything new in BtS and C2C. Although we may have moved the BtS stuff into the other one. If not we should.

All these files contain is a list linking the heading and the text that goes with it. The code in the pedia and dll make sure it comes out in alphabetical order.

edit It may be possible to use the two extras we have available for other stuff eg Screen Interface (what you called Accessories perhaps) and Credits. It was to difficult to remove those before.

Pointing out things that could be better, are missing, or need moving into another document will help us a lot.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

First off, Leader Traits have their own entries in the Civilopedia, so they don't need to be listed in the Concepts menu.

This one is a pain because

1) it changes all the time and

2) options make the actual traits in the game almost certainly different to the ones in the Concepts page. Then the ones in the pedia may not match the ones in game until after you have started the game due to the way the cache like mechanism works.​

 

[damerell]

As some of you know, I've recently been playing up to the Modern era; I've just reached the point of cognitive dissonance because things are (correctly) Modern when I still think of them as living in the future because we didn't have any of this steam locomotive, er, iPad nonsense when I was young, etc.

I've been most mystified by Crime and Punishment, even after asking. Early on it seemed simple; a criminal was detected, then one of my coppers could arrest them and maybe win or lose. Then I figured out because high crime makes it hard to spot the instigators, you have to get the crime level down and then catch them. Then later getting the crime level down seemed to be enough and I never had an opportunity to arrest them, the problem just went away. I did have some units set to hunt and border patrol but didn't get combat reports. Then some of these crime units stuck around - I'd send the flying squad to the city, shove the crime down to -1,000, get multiple detection reports every turn, but never see them or be able to arrest them, except occasionally (to me randomly) I'd be able to attack them with loose Special Forces units. (I resorted to World Builder to find out what they were and that it wasn't just a fresh spawn of 3-4 crime units every turn from... somewhere). Furthermore they were of types (eg Mobster Car) where I'd never built a building that spawns them and I had a good enough idea of the AI's tech level I didn't think they could either. I think it might all tie in with Visibility and Stealth Combat somehow.

I'm not asking for a detailed explanation in this thread, I seem to have killed them all... somehow. But I certainly looked in C2C Concepts and was not enlightened, and this is the most glaring case I am aware of.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It sounds like you're playing with Hide and Seek. On this setting, different invisibility types begin to emerge for criminals and unless you do what you can to keep up with these new types (making older promoted units not always enough since they're likely dedicated to the old ways criminals 'hide') their 'new tricks' can throw you a bit. This is intended to be an evolving challenge. It sounds like the units you were dealing with weren't coming from you but from a neighboring nation sending them in and you simply weren't seeing them because what you'd been relying on to spot them was no longer the way they were primarily hiding out.

They progress around that point to primarily utilizing Political invisibility. They'd pulled strings and bribed ranking officials to ignore their presence basically. Getting on top of this is not easy for a while which gives these more advanced criminals a touch of an upper hand for a bit if they are equally as promoted as the units you're using to spot them (though buildups can still trump them just slightly when capped out although they do have more movement speed so can often be inside the city before you see them coming.)

Police helicopters become very useful for getting an upper hand on this matter.

 

[damerell]

It sounds like you're playing with Hide and Seek

I am, but in this thread, I'm trying to describe what did mystify me whether or not it still mystifies me, to suggest C2C Concepts entries.

That said, I got on top of the different invisibility flavours and (being Top Nation, so presumably able to match the AI) built maxed-out spotting units; this was about when the "so we find out about these guys in Roskilde and Nottingham every turn, but we can't see or attack them" head-scratching was going on. So I'm still a bit confused there, especially since after that the problem went away (apparently) without me changing my approach.

ETA: I mean, I was in a situation where every city had three police cars and a helicopter assigned, the former with different promotion trees, and I'd send the flying squad with a policing-track promotion maxed police car, an investigation-maxed police car, a crackdown-maxed police car, a political-visibility maxed judge (why not?), my special agent (why not?), a Police APC, another police chopper, a Special Forces unit promoted for stealth combat as best as I could, and a partridge in a pear tree. Crime would plummet to huge negative values. Every turn I'd be told wanted suspects had been detected. But I'd have no idea what to do, and in the spirit of this thread I'm asking not what I should have done but suggesting it would be lovely to see the Sevopedia entry I needed to read.

I have a second suggestion, also; C2C is full of ways to kick the other nation without declaring war where vanilla has very few (culture push, spies, some diplomacy, not trading with them... er...). I would have found a discussion of them a valuable addition to the Sevopedia.

 

[Thunderbrd]

this was about when the "so we find out about these guys in Roskilde and Nottingham every turn, but we can't see or attack them" head-scratching was going on. So I'm still a bit confused there, especially since after that the problem went away (apparently) without me changing my approach.

Ok, I get your point that you were trying to say things need to be in the pedia.

If a criminal unit is inside a city, simply seeing it is not always enough. It really needs to be 'wanted' to be able to arrest it there. Unless you want to take them down with your own criminals (which is also an option).

 

[damerell]

If a criminal unit is inside a city, simply seeing it is not always enough. It really needs to be 'wanted' to be able to arrest it there. Unless you want to take them down with your own criminals (which is also an option).

I had the opposite problem. If I could see one, I soon worked out how to kill it. But given messages about one that I couldn't see or dispose of by covering the city in coppers, what then?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Wanted status on Hide and Seek doesn't completely eliminate all invisibility for them. They can continue to become 'more wanted' though as further successful investigations against them take place and this should diminish their invisibilities to the point where eventually you can spot them and take them down.