C2C - UEM - Ultimate-Earth-Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

[Somebody613]

Okay, you're an arsehowl.
I literally roamed around for 300 turns to build up a strong unit (Combat SIX(!!!), because FREE PROMOS RULEZ, and some more bonuses).
Built the Neanderthal Culture.
Promoted the dude to N. Spiked Clubman.
Built a few more N.S.C.s to aid him.
DID NOT declare any wars on Egypt, because N.S.C.s are "Barbarians without nationality", mwahahaha.
Wiped out the Egyptian Tribal Guardian (only cost me 2 non-promoted N.S.C.s, lol, before The Dude struck his Mega Club on the hapless shaman).
Had to do some attack-heal routine to get rid of the other 2 Egyptian S.C.s (but lost no units to them, lol).
Well, then remembered that N.S.C. actually would convert Alexandria to Barbarian, so had to build a lesser N. Clubman who is not a "Barbarian".
Finally, brought all my units (1 normal N.S.C., 1 The Dude N.S.C., and 1 basic N.C.) to attack the city that only had 1 measly Clubman trembling in fear inside it.
Attacked it with The Dude...
And...
And...
AND!!!
***DECIMATED THE F-ING Alexandria TO NOTHING!!!***
What the FCK!!!
Ok, I can try next load (much later, because I'm literally fuming right now) to do it with the "non-Barbarian" N. Clubman, he's still (supposedly) stronger than the defender.
And if not, I can build him a helper and do it in 2 steps, still doable.
But, really, WHY THE FCK did you turn "Barbs (or ANYONE?) auto-RAZE city" ON?!
I'll repeat again:
Your "game rules" are HORSEDUNG.
The end, for now.

P.S.
Wait, or is this the "normal Civ" behavior that you CAN'T CAPTURE cities of Size 1 altogether?
Nice, now it's WORSE, because you are preventing me from ACTUALLY doing anything useful (like capturing ANY cities) for the first, ah dunno, COUPLE THOUSAND TURNS.
HORSE. DUNG. PERIOD.

 

[arihant]

for 6.000 turns

screenshot (save file) or never happened, I really doubt you played your scenario for 6k turns!! I dare you to prove it!

Wait, or is this the "normal Civ" behavior that you CAN'T CAPTURE cities of Size 1 altogether?

Its normal mod feature.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What an interesting observation that barbs always raze interacts with HN units capturing the city by razing the city always. Huh... fascinating. That's a rather interesting consequence of option blending I'd not considered. Kinda like it.

 

[Somebody613]

What an interesting observation that barbs always raze interacts with HN units capturing the city by razing the city always. Huh... fascinating. That's a rather interesting consequence of option blending I'd not considered. Kinda like it.

The question is, I do recall the reason why I started using "never raze cities" - because I couldn't capture Size-1 cities no matter what (nothing to do with Human Neanderthals).
But not sure whether this problem still applies in the general mod options - or is it now asking you to decide.
I'm yet to test the same situation with a non-pseudo-Barbarian unit (but probably gonna do it in the next 10-20 minutes, lol).
Anyways, if it's a MOD (or ex-Vanilla) feature... I hate it, because all the Pit's bragging means nothing, if I literally have no way of capturing Size-1 cities to begin with.
Waiting for AI to grow their cities to Size-2 is... boring and inefficient, to say it very mildly.

 

[Maltazard]

This happens very often... suicide attacks without a large size matters unit to top them off are hardly ever succesful. You want at least 5 to 1 units, preferrably more. I'm not saying it's not possible to do it, but it is very unlikely. Usually I wait at least until atlatls are available before even trying.
Without size matters, getting one of the ancient way of war wonders is incredibly helpful. Way of the fist and obsidian units ideally to achieve a decisive advantage.

 

[Somebody613]

This happens very often... suicide attacks without a large size matters unit to top them off are hardly ever succesful. You want at least 5 to 1 units, preferrably more. I'm not saying it's not possible to do it, but it is very unlikely. Usually I wait at least until atlatls are available before even trying.
Without size matters, getting one of the ancient way of war wonders is incredibly helpful. Way of the fist and obsidian units ideally to achieve a decisive advantage.

I deleted the post, because the stupid Clubman has the Anti-Melee promo of at least Level 2 (that's +45% STR) on top of Combat 3 (that's +30% STR).
How and where FROM, though - that's dunno how much EXP needed for all of this, and I never saw any non-Wanderer AI units walk around in the first place, let alone killing dozens of animals.
It's a dumb [STR 2] Clubman, hello - he's FOOD for 60% of animals to begin with!
AI F-ING CHEATS.

Also, NOT the problem.
Go back and read how I complain that I *did* capture the city... but it simply BROKE at a touch.
I'm now trying to test whether this is a VANILLA issue, or a HUMAN NEANDERTHAL BARBARIAN issue.
But for that, I need to use WEAKER units - and those SUCK.

Anyways, that's it for tonight, gonna continue tomorrow.
Maybe. It does nothing but enrage me now. Like, since when do I even need to ignore half of the mod features in order to satisfy someone's whims? WHATEVER.

 

[Maltazard]

Yeah I read that about the city being razed... normal behaviour is that size one cities are automatically razed, unless they're a capital city, in which case they should be captured. That was weird.

Also yes the tribal guardman is designed with promotions and modifiers so as to make early rush nearly impossible... not so much a cheat but a design choice... which doesn't work too well when there are 5-6 civs right next to one another at the start of the game

 

[Somebody613]

Yeah I read that about the city being razed... normal behaviour is that size one cities are automatically razed, unless they're a capital city, in which case they should be captured. That was weird.

Also yes the tribal guardman is designed with promotions and modifiers so as to make early rush nearly impossible... not so much a cheat but a design choice... which doesn't work too well when there are 5-6 civs right next to one another at the start of the game

NOT the Tribal Guardian.
Him, I killed quite easily (with a mere loss of 2 Neanderthal Spiked Clubmen, each of STR 4 with zero promotions - and my The Dude landing the finishing blow with his Combat SIX club, lol).
Nope, the deleted post was about a NORMAL Clubman of STR 2 having a bunch of promotions out of nowhere, despite me having walked around Alexandria many times and NEVER seeing a single non-Wanderer unit outside of the city borders, EVER.
Now, MY Clubman has traveled a long journey and killed a whole bunch of animals (often barely surviving), so yes, HE has a nice list of (FREE) promotions.
But this CHEATER was never seen walking around, nor have I seen ANY similar units ever walking around anywhere - only Wanderers or Barbarians.
So for HIM to have such a buffed list of promotions... really looks like a CHEAT.

 

[Maltazard]

Hmmm... could be reckless animals suicide attacking him and netting free promotions?

 

[Somebody613]

Not if he stays IN the city all the time, which is the point I made before - I haven't seen any non-Wanderers OUTSIDE of cities, and I've been walking around quite a lot.
Not to mention that at STR 2, he's food for most animals anyways, and his promotions DON'T help him much with animals (unlike mine).
Again, not exactly impossible to gain... for a smart HUMAN PLAYER, that is.
But for AI to manage such a hoard - nope, seems like a cheat.
And, yes, I know that AI doesn't actually cheat - I'm just saying that this makes no sense anyways.

 

[Pit2015]

Okay, you're an arsehowl.
I literally roamed around for 300 turns to build up a strong unit (Combat SIX(!!!), because FREE PROMOS RULEZ, and some more bonuses).
Built the Neanderthal Culture.
Promoted the dude to N. Spiked Clubman.
Built a few more N.S.C.s to aid him.
DID NOT declare any wars on Egypt, because N.S.C.s are "Barbarians without nationality", mwahahaha.
Wiped out the Egyptian Tribal Guardian (only cost me 2 non-promoted N.S.C.s, lol, before The Dude struck his Mega Club on the hapless shaman).
Had to do some attack-heal routine to get rid of the other 2 Egyptian S.C.s (but lost no units to them, lol).
Well, then remembered that N.S.C. actually would convert Alexandria to Barbarian, so had to build a lesser N. Clubman who is not a "Barbarian".
Finally, brought all my units (1 normal N.S.C., 1 The Dude N.S.C., and 1 basic N.C.) to attack the city that only had 1 measly Clubman trembling in fear inside it.
Attacked it with The Dude...
And...
And...
AND!!!
***DECIMATED THE F-ING Alexandria TO NOTHING!!!***
What the FCK!!!
Ok, I can try next load (much later, because I'm literally fuming right now) to do it with the "non-Barbarian" N. Clubman, he's still (supposedly) stronger than the defender.
And if not, I can build him a helper and do it in 2 steps, still doable.
But, really, WHY THE FCK did you turn "Barbs (or ANYONE?) auto-RAZE city" ON?!
I'll repeat again:
Your "game rules" are HORSEDUNG.
The end, for now.

P.S.
Wait, or is this the "normal Civ" behavior that you CAN'T CAPTURE cities of Size 1 altogether?
Nice, now it's WORSE, because you are preventing me from ACTUALLY doing anything useful (like capturing ANY cities) for the first, ah dunno, COUPLE THOUSAND TURNS.
HORSE. DUNG. PERIOD.

Never attack a enemy city before it reached 3 pops if you want to conquer. Only if you want to try to destroy them. By then the AI is a bit stronger.

(When you destroy a civ you will not get ahead of the AI or stay up with the AI as you dont get a extra city.)

Its realistic, if you attack a small city no one will survive. Yep, its a bit harder now as on your easy stuff.

Capturing a city is profitable only if it reached 3 pops, so you got pops and a working city, for every 2 pops you raze a city you will get one captured pops that you can settle in your cities, so only attack a city 1 for destroying a civ as is gives nothing, a city with 2 for capturing a slave pop or a city of 3 or higher for capturing a profitable city, cool feature as it makes it even harder to capture more cities to early and you have to wait a bit and the AI will use the time to build up. Makes the AI harder.

 

[Pit2015]

screenshot (save file) or never happened, I really doubt you played your scenario for 6k turns!! I dare you to prove it!

Yeah you are right i meant 1600 turns (Edit), you can see it here:

C2C - UEM - Ultimate-Earth-Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

@Thunderbrd Nope, mansa has alot and enouth gold, (60.000 + 200 each turn) AI is building less citys after latest AI changes as it looks like screenie... i think they cant build the guard troops fast enouth to build a city they wait for guard units but they build pimary buildings now. Is there a...

forums.civfanatics.com

Far away bases in indonesia then attack towards australia to save the aussis:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/civ4screenshot0385-jpg.513328/

Page 73 has more cool screenshots and the story of this game.

Damn the good old game with the expedition to australia to save the aussies from the aboriginal extinction attack. (But was to easy with field commanders generals, so i restarted then.)

I had some longer games but cant find and save will not load, i think about 2500 turns was my longest game.

But this time i will go to 6000.

 

[Somebody613]

@Pit2015
Weren't YOU the one bragging about "how it's impossible to go ahead of AI without early conquest"?
And now I have to WAIT until THEY grow to Size 3, despite me ALREADY being able to capture their cities ON YOUR TERMS?
Look, ARSEHOWL, should I outright IGNORE your stupid "rules" from now on and just ENJOY the game, *MAYBE*?
Or NOT *MAYBE* altogether?

Also, HOW are you that big by Turn 1600, if I see enemy cities not even turning Size 2 by Turn 400 - and I need them to grow to Size 3 to even capture any?
Meaning, I won't be able to do so until at least Turn 700 or so, if not much later - and that's just to capture cities AT ALL.
Whereas you have already TRAVELED THE OCEAN less than 1000 turns later.
CHEATER much, really now?
Or is it Settler CHICKEN instead?

 

[Pit2015]

@Pit2015
Weren't YOU the one bragging about "how it's impossible to go ahead of AI without early conquest"?
And now I have to WAIT until THEY grow to Size 3, despite me ALREADY being able to capture their cities ON YOUR TERMS?
Look, ARSEHOWL, should I outright IGNORE your stupid "rules" from now on and just ENJOY the game, *MAYBE*?
Or NOT *MAYBE* altogether?

Also, HOW are you that big by Turn 1600, if I see enemy cities not even turning Size 2 by Turn 400 - and I need them to grow to Size 3 to even capture any?
Meaning, I won't be able to do so until at least Turn 700 or so, if not much later - and that's just to capture cities AT ALL.
Whereas you have already TRAVELED THE OCEAN less than 1000 turns later.
CHEATER much, really now?
Or is it Settler CHICKEN instead?

Lamer you have to get better. But now you get the taste of a challenge slowly as it looks like.

You dont have to wait until a city has pop 3 but it may be better, depends on your strategy, but it will affect your success, if you have any success.

I like all these lamers that complain about the AI but if the AI gets harder they get a bit disgruntlet and upset.

You always can improve your self "Grunty" Jagged Alliance 2 Wildfire. So dont give up, get better and see on which place you can get in 1000 turns.

"TRAVELED THE OCEAN less than 1000 turns later"

Old game set up, was more easy and lame field commanders generals game option was in. The scenario has costal and sea ways now, early sea travel still in but is harder now, some ways are blocked and you may need to declare wars if you want to go around the world early by the coastal way. So if you plan a expedition early you may get the +1 movement point for naval units by traveling far around the world. Well, if you are faster then the AI. Tech tree was changed also and put ocean travel to be much later. You have to go long ways by coast or the secret sea ways, ocean travel will take longer to get. A lot of strategies are possible if you dont game like a lamer and only build in your region. On the other side it will cost you some resources and is expensive.

But if you game elite then you can grow faster, but you still have to learn that. And you need some luck.

The early coastal and sea ways simulate the early ocean contacts like Vikings to north america and Incas with Thor-Heyerdahl Kon-Tiki to the pacific islands, australia and indonesia and far more...

And who knows which more coastal contact where there in history. Hopefully you already know that Columbus did not discoverd north america as the first. Like stone age/ice age movement over the Bering Strait.

 

[Somebody613]

Never attack a enemy city before it reached 3 pops if you want to conquer. Only if you want to try to destroy them.

You dont have to wait until a city has pop 3 but it may be better, depends on your strategy, but it will affect your success, if you have any success.

How about YOU show us YOUR success with SCREENSHOTS every, say, 100 turns?
Or are you only capable of puffing your bubble with empty air and insulting others who actually try?
If you show us no pics - then it didn't happen, PERIOD.

 

[Pit2015]

How about YOU show us YOUR success with SCREENSHOTS every, say, 100 turns?
Or are you only capable of puffing your bubble with empty air and insulting others who actually try?
If you show us no pics - then it didn't happen, PERIOD.

Yep, when i get time to game soon i report here.

 

[Somebody613]

CONFIRMED.
Even normal units still RAZE the city.
Cool, so I'll just wait for our Great Loud Boaster to show us how EXACTLY does *HE* manage to *WIN* on these conditions.
Until then - I'll play the way *I* like to play.

@Pit2015
Admit it - the only LIAR and LAMER around here, is YOU.
Or a CHEATER, maybe.
Because there's NO WAY for you to grow that big ON YOUR OWN.
Whereas AI will grow to Size 3 maaaybe on Turn 1000, if they are LUCKY.
So, stop BULLSHITTING us and admit that *YOU* are not playing by *YOUR* own rules.
Because it's OBVIOUS.

I still like your map very much, and big thanks for making it - but that by itself is NOT a good enough excuse to insult people for something that you are at fault even more so.

Waiting.

 

[Pit2015]

CONFIRMED.
Even normal units still RAZE the city.
Cool, so I'll just wait for our Great Loud Boaster to show us how EXACTLY does *HE* manage to *WIN* on these conditions.
Until then - I'll play the way *I* like to play.

@Pit2015
Admit it - the only LIAR and LAMER around here, is YOU.
Or a CHEATER, maybe.
Because there's NO WAY for you to grow that big ON YOUR OWN.
Whereas AI will grow to Size 3 maaaybe on Turn 1000, if they are LUCKY.
So, stop BULLhorsehockyTING us and admit that *YOU* are not playing by *YOUR* own rules.
Because it's OBVIOUS.

I still like your map very much, and big thanks for making it - but that by itself is NOT a good enough excuse to insult people for something that you are at fault even more so.

Waiting.

You dont understand that a pop 1 city is always razed? Normal mod feature. A city with these less population, then the population will die in the attack. Read my previous postings... i told you attack only cities with 3 or 2 pops.

I never cheat, i told you that old game was more easy in the set up. A lot has been changed in the mod and scenario since then. The AI city pops are still growing pretty fast, as the AI builds more and more food buildings.

Now dont talk so much, go try to survive or game easy like a lamer.

And looks like you edit out the tribal guardian to be able to attack easy on your screenshots? Or you lost already a part of your army earlier?

 

[tmv]

Urban Dictionary: Gatekeeping

Gatekeeping: When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have [access] or [rights] to a community or [identity].

www.urbandictionary.com

Or if you prefer it in German:

Die Torwächter. Über Gatekeeping in der Spiele-Community - Videospielgeschichten

Wie kann es sein, dass die Liebe zu den Sims-Spielen weniger wert ist als zu der Elder Scrolls-Reihe? Beobachten lässt sich: Teil einer erlesenen Elite zu sein, pusht das Ego.

www.videospielgeschichten.de

 

[Somebody613]

Urban Dictionary: Gatekeeping

Gatekeeping: When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have [access] or [rights] to a community or [identity].

www.urbandictionary.com

Or if you prefer it in German:

Die Torwächter. Über Gatekeeping in der Spiele-Community - Videospielgeschichten

Wie kann es sein, dass die Liebe zu den Sims-Spielen weniger wert ist als zu der Elder Scrolls-Reihe? Beobachten lässt sich: Teil einer erlesenen Elite zu sein, pusht das Ego.

www.videospielgeschichten.de

That's only half of the problem.
I have posted "challenges" in the past, that were also "gatekeeping" for specific playthrough conditions.
Someone could have easily find any of those "stupid", and be right about it subjectively.
The point is, that Pit currently boasts "winning the game on scenario conditions", but my actual testing shows that it makes too little sense to be true in the first place.
Not to mention how he contradicts himself in describing "The Right Way To Play".
First he said: "You need to conquer your neighbors as soon as possible."
I tried that (because I know how to raise good strong units, given enough luck) - and lo and behold, I literally *CAN'T* conquer ANY neighbors, until THEY grow to Size 3.
Which I can do zilch about, and also will take forever, because AI is relatively stupid anyways.
I bet I will have several (or even if "just one") self-built cities by the time AI manages to grow to Size 3 (and become capturable).
I can see it based on my own city - and, unlike AI, I actually know how to hunt effectively (with some luck).
And then Pit shows us a "screenshot" of him around turn 1600... having traveled around the world by WATER.
As in, okay, he NOW told me that "he made new pathways in the ocean (a very WTH decision in the first place)", but unless those are COAST, he'd still need Seafaring to enter SEA.
Yet he not only had traveled world-over, but managed to capture/build a bunch of cities overseas as well.
Yet in the ACTUAL screenshot (the same one that show his "overseas travels"), what do I see?
OUTRIGGERS and CATAPULTS!
WHAAAT?!
Take a look yourself (a few posts above, but I'll link the SCREEN here):

https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/civ4screenshot0385-jpg.513328/

This is CLEARLY cheating in some way (not sure which, though).
Oooh, and I just realized that this same dude who told ME to "never use Field Commanders, those are cheats"... is USING ONE in the very SCREEN (the purple promos).
He's so ROTTEN in his lies, that I'm not sure I'd have enough TOMATOES.
Also, I just read his last post again.
He's such a "great player" that he can't realize how I took out the Tribal Guardian by sacrificing 2 [STR 4] units and finishing it off with a [STR 4] unit that has [+75% Attack].
Some luck helped, probably, but it wasn't such a big "miracle".
But to him: "you edited out the T.G.", because *HE* wouldn't know how to deal with it.
RIGHT?
The end.