C3C Deity level training game !

[Ambiorix]

Okay, I'm ll set up to play :
- downloaded the C3C reference guide;
- got MapStat running in the background;
- got my own AI Tech research sheet as well;
- opened an Excel-spreadsheet to take notes of my moves;
- Screenshot-utilities are always handy;
- Offa's town capture simulator is running as well.

In case anyone wants to have a go as well, I'm attaching the initial save below. I'll play 20 turns, then come back with the results and a detailed log of my moves for discussion. Please do not post spoiler info before then.

Edit : I think the initial 3 BG tiles make it already enough for a 4-turn settler factory, no ? Well, I'll find out right away...

 

[budweiser]

Ambiorix, I think you and I are at about the same skill level. I didnt see anyone else volunteer yet, so if you want I would like to play out the first 20 turns and post a save for comparison. I'll wait before I here from you before I make a post. Thanks.

 

[Ambiorix]

Ambiorix, I think you and I are at about the same skill level. I didnt see anyone else volunteer yet, so if you want I would like to play out the first 20 turns and post a save for comparison. I'll wait before I here from you before I make a post. Thanks.

If it's okay for everyone, I'll only put summaries of my actions in the posts here, and provide full details in attachment. I have the habbit of keeping my notes in Excel; I hope that's not a problem for anyone ? I suppose i could do it in plain text, but I just like the excel-template I use. Let me know what you think. (Want to keep the patrons in the Lounge happy ).

Okay, so we seem to be on a peninsula, with the English downstream and not much room for expansion. This is going to be tough.
Critical decision moments were :
1. build order; I took warrior-settler-granary
2. direction to explore after reaching the SE-end : go west, or check NE for land-bridges. I decided to go west.

The last turn (3000BC) is actually not yet finished : Bethy has a worker to trade. I usually buy those without a second thought, but this time she's really charging an arm and a leg (4gpt and 53g or something). Should I go for it ??

I'm interested to hear comments. I suppose if people play parrallel games there will be some spoiler info, but I hope it's nothing too dramatical, and I can always pretend not to know.

Oh, in an upspring of unusual patriotism I gave Flemish names to my cities. If that obscures comparison too much, I'll rename them back.

Edit : added screenshot.

 

[Ambiorix]

As mentioned in my first post, gameplay will often be interrupted by RL. Chances are I won't be able to play before the weekend; you may want to subscribe to this thread to get automatic notifications.

"Meanwhile, please return to your seats : tea and biscuits will be served shortly."
[Now who gets that reference ? ]

 

[budweiser]

SPOILERS - Dont read if you are playing along.

Here is my save. I cant post my comments until later, maybe tomorrow.

I didnt do any research to start. When I saw my only neighbor, I started full out on warrior code (archer rush). I think they are the only neighbor b/c they only have 3 more tech than me. I built 3 wars then a settler, no granary. My second city is two turns away and a settler is coming in three turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Budweiser_of_the_Iroquois,_3000_BC.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Iroquois_3000bc.jpg

 

[Pied Piper]

Ambiorix, looks like we are more alike than I thought. Did almost the same except I settled the hill next to the wheat in order to maximize territory. There are alot of bad tiles out there and this way I enclose all the good ones and discourage the AI from putting cities near me. Now I can add cities at my own pace to the fringes and share the good tiles. Also I did not want to waste the BG at the end of the river.

I would buy the worker and put as much money on the installment plan, just as insurance for peace. You can adjust your sliders before F4 to enhance your credit rating.

My dad is from Bergen op Zoom so I expect to eventually see that city by the fish.

 

[budweiser]

Now I have a couple of questions. I am at work and I dont have access to the game.

Pied Piper - Is that hill you founded on a river tile? If not, then you lose the agricultural bonus, right? I'm not sure I would put it there. It looks like this small starting valley can give two settler factories or a settler and a worker factory.

Second, should a granary be built in the capitol or will the inherant agricultural and cow bonus be enough to produce settlers every 4 or 5 turns.

Third, by not doing any research to start, I think I made a mistake. But, I'm not sure a minimum run to writing was right in this case either since we knew england was in the game right from the start and they are likely to get writing before we do. I wish I started warrior code faster, but is that always a good choice with Iroquios? I have never played Iroquois before. Thanks.

 

[SeVeS]

lurker's comment: I just found you can use these fancy lurker comment tags very easy.

@Ambiorix; I like de way you use an excel sheet for your turn log. Do you mind if I copy it and use it for my own?

I would settle on the river, the agricultural bonus is just to big to resist. Irigating the grassland and building a granery in both cities would create a settler and a worker factory. Two settler factories is going to be hard due to the lack of shields.

 

[Ambiorix]

@Ambiorix; I like de way you use an excel sheet for your turn log. Do you mind if I copy it and use it for my own?

Not at all; go right ahead.

I would settle on the river, the agricultural bonus is just to big to resist. Irigating the grassland and building a granery in both cities would create a settler and a worker factory. Two settler factories is going to be hard due to the lack of shields.

My main reason for settling the BG-tile next to the game forest was indeed to be next to the river, whilest staying close to the forest-game. The forest-game *must* be worked by the second city, since the capitol doesn't need it to be a 4-turn settler factory. There's not enough shields present for the second city to become a settler factory as well, so I plan to share the grassland wheat with my third city.

 

[Ronald]

I will stop by once in a while.

Ronald

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Hi Ambiorix,

Good luck taking down deity! Do you wish for lurkers to post advice in this thread, or is it just for game comparisons?

By the way, I used your AI research tendencies spreadsheet for the first time the other day, and it was most helpful. Thanks!

 

[Ambiorix]

Do you wish for lurkers to post advice in this thread, or is it just for game comparisons?

Please, do post advice ! I'm very interested in hearing different opinions.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

There is another option regarding the game tile if you chose to pursue it: you could use it in the capitol to have a 4-turn warrior/settler factory at size 4.5-6.5.

With the above arrangement for the capitol, Bruges could still be set up as a 2-turn worker factory fairly easily. I am not sure if it will need to be size 4.5 or a bit larger, because I don’t have corruption values memorized and I am currently at work. Also, that 2-turn speed is with a granary, of course, and with the English so close you may or may not want a second granary.

I believe Bruges could also become a 5-turn settler factory, but that would require some additional tile development and a good deal of micromanagement of the two cities.

 

[Ambiorix]

Interesting thoughts. I don't think I'll want a second granary, since space seems to be quite limited. also, with both cities producing settlers (4-turn and 5-turn), I'd be lacking warriors for patrol and barb-chasing. So my idea is to keep Ghent as 4-turn settler factory, and chop-irrigate the game for food-bonus in Bruges. Bruges would also be at +5f then, which in turn would make the wheat available for the 3rd city. What do you think ?

Meanwhile, I sneaked in another 10 turns, and things seem to be going well.
We met Sumer and did some trading. Ghent has produced its first settler already, which is headed for the grassland wheat. Furs were discovered in the north (details attached).

I'm bit lost regarding the best build strategy for Bruges : workers ? settlers ? warriors ? A second granary, when they're running at +5 ? A temple perhaps ??

 

[bradleyfeanor]

I'm a big fan of warrior/settler combo factories, but it sounds like you have a good plan to me: it certainly maximizes your food. A barracks in Bruges might be good. Then it would make a nice 4-turn warrior/worker factory with no granary needed. It would be nice to be ready just in case Sumeria and England decide to duke it out--or you encourage their confrontation.

 

[SeVeS]

lurker's comment: It looks like you are doing very well. I have one question. Are you going to wait till the other players have submitted their turns before playing and choose the best game to continu of are you going to finish this game.

 

[Ambiorix]

lurker's comment: It looks like you are doing very well. I have one question. Are you going to wait till the other players have submitted their turns before playing and choose the best game to continu of are you going to finish this game.

I don't know how many people are actively following this game, and how many want to play along.
Currently, I'm just playing whenever I get the time (every couple of days or so, but that tempo may drop), and check comments or saves as they come in.

If people want to play a parrallel session, let me know and I'll wait until you've posted your save.

 

[Ambiorix]

I just discovered Writing, and new strategies need to be developed, but first an update of what happened :

bad news : I lost a settler+warrior party to barbs; horses are nowhere to be seen (yet); and everyone got writing a turn or 2 before I did.

good news : we met Rome and China and after some trading were even tech leader for a few turns (but now they're ahead again); I now have 6 towns; iron is right next to Ghent and is already hooked up ; England is the weakest opponent, is right next to us, has incense near us, and has just finished Colossus.

What do you folks think :
- next research : Literature at minimum ?
- how many swords should I have before taking on England ?

Details below.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

lurker's comment: Hi, I'm just chiming in - good luck with your game. The jump from Emperor -> Deity is harder in C3C than PTW or Vainlla. Some coments:

* I'd place your next city SW of the northwestern Sugar. You'll be able to make it to size 3 population due to being Agricultural, and mining 2 hills and the Sugar hill, you'll get 7 production (including the center square). You won't be able to get past size 3, but you'll have some nice production. A Spearman every 3 turns, or a Swordsman every 5.

* Try to bring the irrigation from Bruges down to the southern plains. Plains with irrigation and roads bring in 2 food, 1 shield, and 2 gold. This makes them workable, and they give a decent amount of production combined with a hill (since you have an odd amount of food from the city square being Agricultural, the hill will even out your fpt).

* I would do Literature at whatever gets you there quickest. I find that (at Demigod), it's much better to do self research. The ~100 gold that you get from minimum research when you can do better will get extorted away by the AIs, and it's not enough really to buy your own techs - some are expensive. However, if minimum is the 'most' you can do, then do it. The AI tends to neglect Literature, so you might get there 1st, if not close to it.

* York should be your main goal; incense for happiness (you don't have any luxuries yet), and you'll have 2 extra to trade. The AI will pay some nice money for the luxury. For England, I'd say maybe around 15 Swordsmen. I'm not sure though, I haven't looked at the save. That'd be a good amount to take a couple of cities and get peace for some nice stuff.

* One last thing I thought of: if you station a warrior on hills and see the 20 surrounding squares, barbarians can't appear. Barbarians don't appear in terrain you can see what is happening. A couple of warriors in the fog could allow you to send your settlers out unguarded, knowing they'll be safe, and allowing you more production on swordsman rather than escorts.

Good luck!

 

[bradleyfeanor]

next research : Literature at minimum ?
- how many swords should I have before taking on England ?

Is the philosophy slingshot a no-go due to the AI research rate?

On swords, if you get someone else (like Sumer) into a war with England and send your troops in after they start to fight, then you can probably take several cities with around 8 swords (although I love to take around 4-8 catapults along when I play C3C). If only you and England are at war, you will probably need much more than that--unless you just want to take York and then give them peace. Since York is a hilltop city, catapults will be particularly useful.