C3C - SID - Rise of Carthage - as guided by Spoonwood

[AnthonyIII]

I have started playing. What do I do after we've revolted to Monarchy? Should I make all the trades I can?

"4-1150BC: Philosophy comes in. Check out the big picture. Japan and the Zulus will give us Polytheism, Pottery and 14g for Philo. I trade with Japan since they are cautious towards us and Shaka is polite. Take monarchy. Revolt. The mongols had CoL but it was out of reach for us, as we could not afford it. Khan wanted philo, all our gold and 14+++gpt, that would get him to "close". Head back to Shaka to trade Iron working and 29g for Philo, as he would have gotten it soon anyways. Trade philo to Khan for Horseback riding and 199g. We're up Polytheism and Monarchy on him, should I get CoL and Map Making from him now?"

If you guys are not happy with trading around Philo let me know as then I will replay this turn. If we give Khan polytheism he might get the ToA before us?

 

[Elephantium]

3. Keeping the Palace prebuild on the Palace prebuild until the advisor says we have 1 turn left in Anarchy. THEN AND ONLY THEN swap the palace to the Museum of Mausollos.

Why is this part important? Why not switch as soon as we enter Anarchy?

 

[Spoonwood]

Why is this part important? Why not switch as soon as we enter Anarchy?

If we have 200 shields in the box and complete the Museum of Mausollos in Anarchy we get... an Anarchy golden age! We have the Pyramids, and that's an Industrious wonder. MoM is Seafaring.

 

[Elephantium]

Ah, yes, it would complete in Anarchy because we overbuilt it. I'm not used to doing that.

It makes sense though.

 

[Spoonwood]

I have started playing. What do I do after we've revolted to Monarchy? Should I make all the trades I can?

"4-1150BC: Philosophy comes in. Check out the big picture. Japan and the Zulus will give us Polytheism, Pottery and 14g for Philo. I trade with Japan since they are cautious towards us and Shaka is polite. Take monarchy. Revolt. The mongols had CoL but it was out of reach for us, as we could not afford it.

I've checked and we can actually afford it. I should have explained this better, since it seem you're not familiar with the ideas of an n-fer (an example... though we probably won't need to go with gpt deals). Khan doesn't know Polytheism or the other two tribes, right? So, first trade Philosophy for Polytheism with one of the other two, and then second trade Polytheism for Code of Laws with Khan (you can pick up Pottery and some gold also). Then take Republic as the free tech. I would appreciate if you did this over, because I can't really overstate how slow we will research for all too long. That said, it does seem fair to know how everyone else feels on this.

Since the Zulu and Japanese know each other, after you've traded Philosophy away to Japan, you also want to trade the Zulu Philosophy... it looks like Iron Working and some gold.

I wouldn't trade Philosophy to Khan, nor would I trade Code of Laws to the other two. Delaying them in tech can make things easier. Though, if they demand anything, yield it to them.

We need Literature next. We won't get the Temple of Artemis, unless we get an SGL in time.

Addendum: 002 can revolt every other turn (every 2 turns) if you play carefully enough. This will give it more food for later on in the game. Just make sure it doesn't revolt 2 turns in a row, otherwise the temple might burn down.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Clever Spoonwood. I was not familiar with this "n-trade", will read up. And replay and go for the Republic! I think everyone here favours The Republic over Monarchy from what I've read of you guys in other threads, but I can hold on and let creamcheese and Elephantium have their say aswell.

 

[creamcheese]

I agree with Spoonwood totally, you should get CoL and we should go republic. This isn't a war based game in the first place, so republic is pretty much always the best choice if we can get it, which we can. A real turn of luck, I wasn't expecting CoL to be available.

 

[Spoonwood]

I agree with Spoonwood totally, you should get CoL and we should go republic. This isn't a war based game in the first place, so republic is pretty much always the best choice if we can get it, which we can. A real turn of luck, I wasn't expecting CoL to be available.

Neither was I! As I've said, I've done this before, but it doesn't happen all that often!

 

[Elephantium]

Clever Spoonwood. I was not familiar with this "n-trade", will read up. And replay and go for the Republic! I think everyone here favours The Republic over Monarchy from what I've read of you guys in other threads, but I can hold on and let creamcheese and Elephantium have their say aswell.

It's usually referred to as a "twofer" (two-for-one deal) or a "threefer", but you can extend it to "n" ways, not just 2 or 3

I'm normally opposed to reloading saves in Civ 3, but a) this is a training game, so I see some value in it for the learning experience, and b) we really do need Republic!

 

[AnthonyIII]

Alright! Will trade for Republic and revolt!

 

[AnthonyIII]

0-1250BC: Look around, science from 60% to 50% making +2g pr turn instead of -1g pr turn, philo still in 4. Enter.

1-1225BC: 001 settler-settler. Settler moves to BG on coast next to wheat. We could settle by the lake as well, as creamcheese suggested and I don't have very strong feelings about either spots. I guess it's the same for you creamcheese so I just go for the wheat as Spoonwood suggested. Worker finishes road on hill outside 002, moves to roaded reg g next to it to start mining as this takes less time than the hill. Should I have mined the hill? Warrior and curragh scouts.

2-1200BC: 002 hits size 12. Spices connected! Japan takes a Zulu city. Workers mine each their roaded hill outside 002. Worker chopping spice forest towards settler in 001. Scouting. Because of our curragh beeing near, I get to watch the battle of Isandhlwana.

3-1175BC: Found 004, starts worker. Philo in 1.

4-1150BC: Philosophy comes in. Check out the big picture. Japan and the Zulus will give us Polytheism, Pottery and 14g for Philo. I trade with Japan since they are cautious towards us and Shaka is polite. I take it. Ring up Khan and trades Polytheism for CoL and 195g. Call up Shaka and trade him Philo for IW and 29g. Take The Republic. Revolt. We have iron on our island.

5-1125BC:Zzzz.... Japan is building the Hanging Gardens and the MoM. Scouting.

6-1100BC: Worker mine spices. The Mongols have completed the Great Lighthouse. Mongolian galley is approaching.

7-1075BC: Worker from mined, roaded reg g to hill to mine. Oh crap... Khan just landed 1 veteran swordsman and 1 veteran archer next to 001 and 002. I fear this might be the end.

8-1050BC: Khan dow'ed us and took 001. WLTK-day. 1 turn left off anarcy, swap to MoM.

9-1025BC: We're now a Republic. More mongol galleys coming. We complete the MoM and enter our Golden Age! Khan, you bastard...

10-1000BC: Make no moves.

 

[Elephantium]

7-1075BC: Worker from mined, roaded reg g to hill to mine. Oh crap... Khan just landed 1 veteran swordsman and 1 veteran archer next to 001 and 002. I fear this might be the end.

When this happens, the AI is ALWAYS planning a sneak attack. Dial them up in diplomacy and issue the boot order "Remove your troops or declare war!"

That lets us take the initiative and attack their forces before this happens:

8-1050BC: Khan dow'ed us and took 001. WLTK-day. Move scout warrior into 002. 1 turn left off anarcy, swap to MoM.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!

 

[AnthonyIII]

Yes, but it was two vet sword and archer and our two regular warrior would have almost certainly died and then they would take 002 instead of 001. But yes, in general I do as you!

 

[Spoonwood]

1. Why did you clear a forest in territory not in the fat X of any city? Creamcheese didn't clear it, but roaded it for the luxury, which I can understand.

2. We needed a max run on Literature, not a min run. It's 20k, we want to build wonders. How will we get to build wonders if we don't have the techs for them in time?

3. Why didn't you do as creamcheese suggested:

Workers on the hill should combine to build mines when they finish roads

? In any 20k, you generally want as many shields for the 20k city as soon as possible, and with roads down stack mining makes sense.

4. I don't want to continue this map at least since Khan took 001. But, were we planning on continuing you would have wanted to switch the builds in at least 003 and 004, as well as probably also 002 to military to try to retake 001.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Since I've learnt not wasting worker turns is so important - I wanted to start another job on the tile our worker was standing, forgetting to check if the forest was in 001's fat X. Bad mistake. Regarding Lit, I just wanted to check how much money we were making by going 10%, then I saved, if we are going to continue it's no problem bumping the slider up where it was. I would go max as well. It's really bad of me to miss your advise creamcheese, I'm sorry about that. I got focused on the dotmap-discussion and forgot to go back and read your post again. I also agree that this map may be too hard now...

 

[creamcheese]

Um, who is up? Elephantium?

 

[AnthonyIII]

Yeah, I don't know - do we continue this map? Will be VERY tough with 001 captured. And there are more galleys coming.

 

[Elephantium]

I think the order the last time around was:

Spoonwood
elephantium
creamcheese
AnthonyIII

I thought Spoonwood wanted to abandon this map because of the capture of 001.

 

[Spoonwood]

Edit: I have a terrific map. I actually just completed it and submitted it to the HoF with it crashing 1 turn before I finished, as I did some funny things. Do you guys want to play that map with me just advising you along, since I already have an idea of where the AIs lie?

 

[Spoonwood]

If you guys want to do that, no peeking at "spoilers" of mine in the "Interesting Screenshots" thread.