C3C - SID - Rise of Carthage - as guided by Spoonwood

[Elephantium]

That doesn't make sense to me

Why won't we have any use for that BG? Are you thinking we'll keep 001 constantly at size 1? Won't we need to be building settlers there before Engineering?

 

[Spoonwood]

That doesn't make sense to me

Why won't we have any use for that BG? Are you thinking we'll keep 001 constantly at size 1? Won't we need to be building settlers there before Engineering?

I thought another city planted around there might use it later. 001 will produce settlers and workers, for quite some time. There may come a point when it would come as valuable much, much later on (supposing things go well enough) to disband it and have out Palace freely swap to 002. That said, I hadn't thought of using the cow for 001 for a bit and if we have enough food for that, but that should come after we have the hills for 002 fully developed, and it stands at size 12, since we'll overbuild the Museum of Mausollos at this rate (this almost always happens or comes as very close to happening in my games).

I was trying to hint at (admittedly my hint came as rather poor) Once we have a non-despotic government, at size 12, and all the hills developed, we'll have 3 cows, 5 hills, 2 forests, and we already have 2 BGs mined. That makes for (4x3)=12 food from the cows, 5 from the hills, 2 from the forests, 4 from the BGs, and 2 from the city center. That's 25 total food, and we only need 24. So, we'll have 1 extra food with the maximum possible shield configuration for 002 with that setup.

That said, you have a good point about 001, that I really hadn't thought of. 001 can use one of those cows once we have that BG in use. So, the worker priorities at this point (after finishing their jobs) should come as, in this order

1. fully developing those hills.

2. having a mine finish on that BG 002 doesn't have access to yet. If, this goes right we might not have a need to mine that irrigated cow.

That all said once we have Engineering we want 002 to have all cows, and forest any cows so that we have 24 food and maximum production.

On Philosophy:

We don't want to do any trades until... the turn we learn Philosophy. The very turn we learn Philosophy we use "what's the Big Picture" trade for Polytheism/Code of Laws then (maybe both... maybe that's how we get Code of Laws), then point to our free government tech, take it and revolt.

 

[Elephantium]

Now I'm more confused than before I was talking about the BG 2-3 from 001, not the BG 7-7 from 002. And I'm not sure *where* this talk about swapping the cow between cities comes from

 

[Spoonwood]

Oh, the BG 2-3 from 001 we definitely will use. Don't worry about the other part, we'll get to it later, if we aren't attacked too early.

 

[AnthonyIII]

We got the Pyramids, amazing! Looking good. Very nicely played, Elephantium. Creamcheese is up?

 

[creamcheese]

I am? Oh there was a swap or something? Okay, got it.

Good job on getting the Pyramids btw.

 

[Elephantium]

Yes - I swapped with Spoonwood over Christmas.

 

[creamcheese]

Okay, went well I suppose.

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 0, 1500BC; I take note of worker priorities, and techs trades once we get philosophy. I worry about not getting there first. Next build for 002 is Prebuild for MoM.

IBT; Two border expansions at 001 and 002.

Turn 1, 1475BC; Where are these two curraghs going? It looks like they might be going home to disband. I send one that way. One keep scouting. And the one that is obviously still scouting scouts. MM 002 for food (new BG).

IBT; Worker on hill completes road. 003 worker-->settler.

Turn 2, 1450BC; new worker to new BG. Worker on hill mines. Worker mining the BG for 001 will go help the BG worker in a turn. MM 002 for more food, so it grows one turn faster (temple still in one). Scouting.

IBT; 001's BG worker completes mine. 001 worker-->settler. 002 temple-->palace (MoM).

Turn 3, 1425BC; I forgot our new worker can help with BG, old worker helps with mine on hill. Still can't quite bump the lux slider. Scouting.

IBT; Mongols are building the Great Lighthouse.

Turn 4, 1400BC; Scouting. zzz.

IBT; 002 grows.

Turn 5, 1375BC; Scouting. I realize I can divert a worker in a few turns to the Spices south of 001 now that its' borders grew.

IBT; NW BG workers complete mine.

Turn 6, 1350Bc; Disband Curragh in 001. Workers from NW BG to hills. Scouting.

IBT; Hill workers finish mine. 001 and 003 grow.

Turn 7, 1325BC; Hill worker roads, worker to hill, worker to hill, worker to spices. MM 003 for shields. Scouting.

IBT; Tons of AI units move about, remind me why I thought Sid was a good idea?

Turn 8, 1300BC; 3 workers road. Scouting, Zulu have the chokepoint/canal between then them and the Japanese, but it is next to a volcano, silly AI.

IBT; zzz

Turn 9, 1275BC; I see some Japanese and Zulu units near the choke, are they at war?

IBT; I see Japan kill two of something with horses, Japan and Zulu are at war! Japan moves in a huge 14 unit stack.

Turn 10, 1250BC; It appears Japan holds the second chokepoint. I think Zulu may be in a GA. MM 001 for shields.

Since we have some settlers on the way we need to talk about where to settle.
Possible Dotmap for Discussion:

Spoiler :

I think dot 2 would be good for our settler next turn, not sure after that, maybe someone else has some insight?

Workers on the hill should combine to build mines when they finish roads, after that forest the irrigated cow I think will get us to size 12 and 24fpt? Count and make sure.

We still have a good chance at philosophy, don't forget to trade it through the "what's the big picture" option so we can get our government tech. Are we aiming for whatever we can get? I think we should go republic if possible.

 

[Elephantium]

I would almost move dot #6 1N (8) or #5 1SW (1) -- that way the Wheat tile will be workable without building culture in 003.

I had planned on having both curraghs scout westward from the coast S of the Mongols -- it looks like there's another island hidden in the fog around there.

 

[creamcheese]

Oh, oops on the curraghs. It looked to me like they were out of options barring a suicide and we had met everyone... I guess there may be one spot down south that may be doable, but now the curragh is out of position.

Yes I was wondering about getting that wheat, One culture building wouldn't be the end of the world though. Probably moving #6 is better since it doesn't waste a BG.

 

[Spoonwood]

Our biggest problem in this game (so long as we don't get attacked early on) will come as research. How do we pick up our research rate? With more commerce. How do we increase our commerce potential? By maximizing coast and sea squares. Harbors don't cost us much after all. Accordingly, dot 7 has more research potential one southwest of it. Also, we can use a bunch of coast squares with a city 1 west of the forest where the worker roads right now. The bonus grassland on the river east (3-3) of 003 for the "free aqueduct" (and it'll grab some coast). Also, for really any game, when you settle tundra you want to ICS it. This way instead of having 1 food for a tundra square you have 2 (or 3 if agricultural) for a city center square (and if you have a lot of tundra, you can have 1 scientist farms even).

I'd probably go with something more like this:

Spoiler :

Are we aiming for whatever we can get?

If possible Republic, but so long as we get one of the two, we've done very well. So, I'd say we're aiming for whatever we can get.

 

[creamcheese]

That is awfully tight spacing there, would we be just relying on gold to rush instead of production? I generally like to have at least some production capability in the core.

 

[Spoonwood]

That is awfully tight spacing there, would we be just relying on gold to rush instead of production? I generally like to have at least some production capability in the core.

We have more tiles earlier with tighter spacing (for faster production), we have more tiles that we can use, as well as getting free production and roads from city centers. We also use more tiles overall this way. Production won't do much for us in this game, though commerce will. More cities will also help with unit support, and we might eventually snag some very nice gpt deals with the AIs.

 

[AnthonyIII]

x1 is marked on a BG. I've read that one sould not place cities on BG's, is that wrong? Well played creamcheese and happy new year to all! I got the save and will play tomorrow.

 

[creamcheese]

x1 is marked on a BG. I've read that one sould not place cities on BG's, is that wrong? Well played creamcheese and happy new year to all! I got the save and will play tomorrow.

Well normally you should not if you can avoid it, as it wastes a shield. (this obviously matters less the farther from the core you get). In this case though, of the two available river tiles, one has a BG, and one has wheat. Missing out on 2 food is probably worse than 1 extra shield, so BG it is.

 

[Spoonwood]

I've read that one sould not place cities on BG's, is that wrong?

Well normally you should not if you can avoid it, as it wastes a shield. (this obviously matters less the farther from the core you get). In this case though, of the two available river tiles, one has a BG, and one has wheat. Missing out on 2 food is probably worse than 1 extra shield, so BG it is.

AnthonyIII, in general I would advise NOT to plant on a BG. However, in this case to plant on the river, as creamcheese points out, we either settle on the BG or the wheat. And the BG makes for the better choice.

Creamcheese, though I agree that wasting the BG would come as worth it, it doesn't come as exactly correct to say that you waste a BG if you found on it. From size 1-6 a city on a BG will yield only one shield, yes. However, if I recall correctly, from size 7 on up, or size 13 on up a city on a BG will yield 2 shields. I don't recall which. I think some lurker here might point this out for use.

 

[creamcheese]

AnthonyIII, in general I would advise NOT to plant on a BG. However, in this case to plant on the river, as creamcheese points out, we either settle on the BG or the wheat. And the BG makes for the better choice.

Creamcheese, though I agree that wasting the BG would come as worth it, it doesn't come as exactly correct to say that you waste a BG if you found on it. From size 1-6 a city on a BG will yield only one shield, yes. However, if I recall correctly, from size 7 on up, or size 13 on up a city on a BG will yield 2 shields. I don't recall which. I think some lurker here might point this out for use.

I guess I've never looked into it at larger sizes, I assumed that since you didn't get the bonus when small, you don't get it when large. You get shields from resources you build on immediately...

As a note, we will get extra shields at size 7 and 12 from industrious... Plus I think a size 7 yields 2 anyway? I don't know lol.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Aha, thanks for the extra info guys. I will play soon, anything special to keep in mind other than what we've discussed before?

 

[Spoonwood]

Aha, thanks for the extra info guys. I will play soon, anything special to keep in mind other than what we've discussed before?

1. Using "what's the big picture" to trade for Philosophy for Polytheism, and/or Code of Laws, and taking Monarchy, or if available Republic as a free tech. Pay gpt of gold if needed (probably not needed). See which AI will give you the best deal.

2. Revolting as soon we learn the new government tech.

3. Keeping the Palace prebuild on the Palace prebuild until the advisor says we have 1 turn left in Anarchy. THEN AND ONLY THEN swap the palace to the Museum of Mausollos.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Noted!