Can we change it back, please?

ShakaKhan

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Jan 5, 2015
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The unique districts no longer not counting towards the population cap seems like a bad change. It would make some sense if there was a unanimous conclusion that the bonus made civs with unique districts far superior to those that had other bonuses, and while there was some consensus that unique districts were better than unique buildings, the civs that had unique districts weren't far superior to those with other bonuses. Just about everyone's tier guides has Scythia and Sumeria at the top, and neither had a unique district. If those are the top two civs, most would consider Arabia, China, and Rome in the mix for filling out the top 5 or top 7 civs in the game, and none of them had a unique district (except Rome, but as their unique district replaces one that doesn't count towards the limit, it wasn't effected by the rule change.)

Further, it seems that the original design of the unique districts had accounted for the fact that not counting towards the limit was a big advantage, because the unique districts that replaced those that do count towards the limit don't have very good bonuses, other than being half-priced. Looking at them on a case-by-case basis:

-hanza a half priced industrial zone is a significant bonus, but the difference between a hanza and a normal IZ is only situationally better. You lose the 1Xbonus for adjacent mines and quarries in exchange for a 2X bonus next to CH and 1X bonus next to resources. Usually a normal IZ can be placed next to 3 or 4 mines and quarries, so the bonus is about the same, often worse. You can have cities overlap for multiple CH bonuses to the same hanza, but that can mean sacrificing bonuses to other districts. I'm not sure if the hanza doesn't count as an IZ in terms of appeal, and maybe that's something extra, but a very minor bonus if it is. Germany's defining characteristic before the patch was a civ that could build three districts in a size 1 city and six districts in a size 10 city, which made for incredible flexibility, and that's significantly downgraded now, and I think losing the free population cost moves Germany from one of the best and most versatile in the game to middle of the pack status.

-street carnival it adds 1 extra amenity. not too exciting. There's also the unique project aspect, but usually there's several more important things to be building at any given point in time. This is also a prime example of what I mentioned earlier - the unique districts that replace those that don't count towards the population limit have better bonuses than those that replace districts that do count, because they accounted for the fact that being able to build an extra specialty district is itself a huge bonus. Compare this to Rome's UD. which gives +1 amenity and +2 housing in a district that doesn't count towards the district cap (and consequently is easier to utilize; you don't have to sacrifice building a different district because of the limit) versus +1 amenity in a district that does count towards the limit, a reduced bonus in a less accessible district.

-acropolis probably the most significant case of needing to not count towards the limit. First off, needing to be built on a hill is quite detrimental. Second, the bonus (aside from being half priced) is very minor, it just gets extra adjacency bonuses. Japan gets a very similar bonus to their theater districts (extra adjacency from one of his bonuses, half priced from another bonus) but they get the same bonus towards two other district types as well. It also shoehorns Greece towards a culture victory where before they were very versatile because both leaders ALREADY HAVE a culture bonus. If you're not going for a culture victory, you'd probably try to leverage the leader bonus and use your limited district caps on others because theater squares are low priority districts for the other victory conditions.

Since districts increase in cost as you build more and more of them, not counting towards the limit is a mixed blessing, I think we all figured that out when we tried Germany for the first time with grandiose plans only to find districts soon taking longer to build than wonders. Still, it added a characteristic to each of the civs that had access to them, and removing this feature detracts from the civs that had them and the game as a whole.

Thoughts?
 
-hanza a half priced industrial zone is a significant bonus, but the difference between a hanza and a normal IZ is only situationally better. You lose the 1Xbonus for adjacent mines and quarries in exchange for a 2X bonus next to CH and 1X bonus next to resources. Usually a normal IZ can be placed next to 3 or 4 mines and quarries, so the bonus is about the same, often worse. You can have cities overlap for multiple CH bonuses to the same hanza, but that can mean sacrificing bonuses to other districts. I'm not sure if the hanza doesn't count as an IZ in terms of appeal, and maybe that's something extra, but a very minor bonus if it is. Germany's defining characteristic before the patch was a civ that could build three districts in a size 1 city and six districts in a size 10 city, which made for incredible flexibility, and that's significantly downgraded now, and I think losing the free population cost moves Germany from one of the best and most versatile in the game to middle of the pack status.

I think it made Germany's ability relevant, since now you actually need the extra slot, this ability + free Hansa was over the top. As for the Hansa, don't judge it only by how much production you get, what make the Hansa good is flexibility. I'm playing a game as India with a start that barely have any hills, my capital have none. If I had the Hansa this wouldn't be an issue, I would have at least a guaranteed bonus from CH + potential resources, all this for half the production. I would be in a lot better position now as Germany than I'm as India, at least from a production point of view (can't complain about the housing). Hansa still powerful and flexible, it's not ridiculously OP anymore.
 
I think the biggest argument to the current way is that having districts not count essentially made them more valuable because they didn't count, not because they actually gave a bonus. So sure, obviously they're not as good as they used to be, but their uniqueness before was not unique, which was weird. Of course, on the flipside, I think it makes Japan even more powerful, since they sort of now have like 4 unique districts, as they get extra adjacencies for some districts, and cheap production for others.

I do agree that some districts may need balancing back, but I would definitely say that the Hansa is still awesome. Lower production is still a big deal, and as mentioned above, it can give you a big production boost to a city that desperately needs it. I mean, if I take my top-4 cities in an average game, I'll probably have one IZ that gets +3 or +4, another that's +2 or +3, but some cities I can barely even find a +1 for that doesn't kill another valuable tile (no point to building a +1 IZ if it destroys your only riverside forest tile).

Yeah, some districts probably need an extra boost now. The Acropolis for sure could use something (maybe something like +15% to wonder production?), the British Dockyard might need something too. Maybe the Carnival could have an extra bonus where you get an extra +1 amenity per adjacent neighbourhood? It can use a small extra boost, but I did just finish playing a game as Brazil and I don't think the civ as a whole needs anything extra as they also sort of have unique theatres, holy site, and campuses due to the jungle bonuses. I think it's perfectly fine for some districts to be simply unique, but not substantially better than the base one, and I definitely think the Carnival fits that mold to a T.
 
I think this change was a great idea and that reverting it would be a mistake. When unique districts are powerful simply by nature of being unique districts, it's very difficult, balance-wise to make their actual unique features powerful. This makes civs less distinct than they could be, a problem that will only get worse if the number of civs increases and some have unique versions of the same district. The change may make some existing districts slightly a bit underpowered, but I'd much rather return some of that power in unique ways than restore a much blander system of standardized bonuses
 
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