Can you justify this statement?

[RameNoodle]

I think that if its important, we will get it. If the information is important enough, and even one American life is at stake for it, then, use whatever means necessary. WHATEVER!

 

[theimmortal1]

A lawyer? LOL. They are prisoners from the war on terror (aka war against militant islam).

Yes we should treat them humanely, but they need to be detained till the war is over.

 

[batteryacid]

Don´t forget that there is always the problem with torture that people will tell you everything when they are tortured enough (you only have to think about the Inquisition for example) and that because of this the use of torture is contradictory to the intention of getting important information

You only will get valid information by proper intelligence working (moles in the network, long time observation etc. ) and by offering realistic deals to the prisoners

Guantanamo had until now only the use of beeing the playgroud for some sadistic b*****

 

[bigfatron]

I believe enemy combatants do recieve those rights, but not terrorists. It takes quite a bit to send someone to Guantanamo. It's not like you're on vacation in Afghanistan and get sent there, unlike what one of the liars said. Think of all the prisons in the US... If you got arrested for shoplifting, would they send you to Alcatraz?

Actually a fair few people in Guantanomo were picked up simply on the say-so of Afghan informers for (relatively) very large amounts of cash.

"What, you'll give me enough bucks to change my life forever if I point out a terrorist. <<Let's see, he's not local, so he hasn't got family that can get back at me>>..... Effendi! Him, him! The beardy one across the street. Very bad terrorist. And his sister. She looks like a terrorist and besides she has a beard. And his mother.....well, she comes from Bradford. All dangerous terrorists. And look, here I have a handy bag to carry all those dollar bills in...."

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

"Effendi! Him, him! The beardy one across the street. Very bad terrorist. And his sister. She looks like a terrorist and besides she has a beard. And his mother.....well, she comes from Bradford. All dangerous terrorists. And look, here I have a handy bag to carry all those dollar bills in...."

Indeed Bradford is a dangerous place. I think it would be safer to just airstrike the whole place.

 

[Paradigne]

I'm real sure that their counterparts let civilians talk to a lawyer before they cut off their heads....

 

[greekguy]

This isn't a real war, the people there are not as cooperative and they don't play by the rules; neither should the United States of America. It's hard to reason with a Muslim radical Jihadist that would blow himself up in the name of Allah.

Because they act barbarically we should lower ourselves to their level? we're the ones fighting the war for freedom and democracy, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I'm real sure that their counterparts let civilians talk to a lawyer before they cut off their heads....

That's not the point. The point is by treating them who you would want to be treated reiterates which is the civilised nation and who is a barbaric terrorist. Allows you to take the moral high ground which has been sadly lacking of late.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

What Germany and Italy and their satellites tried in the 20th century and failed the USA will try in the 21st.

Fascism never really died folks. It is alive and well in the world today.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I believe enemy combatants do recieve those rights, but not terrorists.

You believe wrong.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What Germany and Italy and their satellites tried in the 20th century and failed the USA will try in the 21st.

Fascism never really died folks. It is alive and well in the world today.

We're not really fascist, we are just mistreating people.

But yes, we cannot stoop to their level. If we are going to be just like them, what is the point of fighting?

And torture is useless as a means of gathering intelligence. If we can't do it the right way, this won't work. Either they don't know anything and, as people always do, will tell the torturers what they want to hear, or they will just lie. And without real intelligence sources we can't tell the difference anyways.

 

[Keshik]

It's an ugly business and if you can't stomach what it takes to protect our way of life, then you shouldn't think about it. You step on the big dog's tail, he bites you. Hard.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Resistance is an ugly business and if you can't stomach what it takes to protect Iraq from the infidels, then you shouldn't think about joining the insurgency. You step on an American's tail, he commits atrocities. Hard.

This sounds scarily like the logic of the other side.

Remind me again what we were fighting for? Freedom, liberty and justice, but not for 'Rag-Heads'?

 

[Keshik]

You have to remember our governments are charged with PREVENTION of terrorist attacks. This is a very different mandate than simple law enforcement. They can't sit back and wait for the crime and then look for who to arrest, being careful not to listen to any phone calls without a warrant, reading rights, and not being too rough when slapping on the cuffs. (And in many cases the perpetrator has died in the attack anyway.)

This fight can't be compared to normal law enforcement. Normal law enforcement can't be expected to prevent crimes, only to apprehend the perps.

 

[Keshik]

This sounds scarily like the logic of the other side.

Remind me again what we were fighting for? Freedom, liberty and justice, but not for 'Rag-Heads'?

(I've personally never used the expression "rag-heads" but it appears you're implying I have that mindset. I believe most of the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. want to go about their lives in peace like me and they are good people. I have no compulsion to generalize them based on headgear.)

My point is what is happening in the world today is a result of a particular event NOT perpetrated by the US or its administration (contrary to some sadly misguided opinions). This event changed the way the world has to work in order to prevent it or others like it from occurring in the future. There is violence. Has been since the beginning of time. Get used to it. It's not going away.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

It's an ugly business and if you can't stomach what it takes to protect our way of life, then you shouldn't think about it. You step on the big dog's tail, he bites you. Hard.

Adolph Hitler said the same thing and look where it got him and over 100 million innocent souls!

 

[Paradigne]

Adolph Hitler said the same thing and look where it got him and over 100 million innocent souls!

You need to read a little more history. If anyone can be compaired to Hitler it would be Saddam. Poland would be Kuwait.

 

[Souron]

Miranda v. Arizona. The same exact arguement was used.

But the truth is the main reason the interigation of criminals is so successful, is because dispite being read their Miranda rights, most arresties ignore them and testify anyway. Perhalps it will be the same with terrorists, perhalps not.

But my gut reaction is to agree with you.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

You need to read a little more history. If anyone can be compaired to Hitler it would be Saddam. Poland would be Kuwait.

Ok maybe I wasn't clear on the connection I was trying to make.

Hitler told his people that he needed emergency powers to fight "terroism" and that certain freedoms would have to go in order to do this and then the rest was history.

Read about Kristal Nacht.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It's true. Germany wasn't a nation full of sociopaths and murderers, Germany was a country full of people who were willing to go outside the law a little to fight an outside threat.

Now I think we are still a long way from then, but everyone who has ever used the "slippery slope" argument shouldn't forget Germany.