[GS] Canals, rivers and roads

[Tomice]

Now that we have canals as a district, how do you think they'll interact with rivers and roads?

First, the known facts (according to Ed Beach's announcement "letter"):
- Each city might have 2 canal districts (so a 3-tile wide land strip may be crossed by a standard canal)
- The Panama canal wonder allows us to create a 7-tile canal (including 2 city tiles)
- In other words: Coast---Canal-City-Canal---Panama---Canal-City-Canal---Coast
- Being a district means the canal is ON the tile, not BETWEEN tiles like a river

Assuming a river flows parallel to the canal, do you think it will somehow be "fusioned" into the canal?
The graphic for dam districs certainly shows us that a river can be "stretched" onto the tile within the graphics engine (can't find a good picture). It would certainly look weird if our citizens would just dig an artificial canal right next to the existing river???

Also, which benefits could you imagine for the canal? Aside from the obvious (ship passage), of course.
Should it act as road regarding unit movement? Should it give some gold yield? What about adjacency (it's a district after all)?

I always found it a pity that rivers don't count as free, natural roads (at least within the newer versions of civ, they were ON the tile 10-15 years ago). Of course I understand that the in-between version has its merits, too, especially for warfare. But maybe there's a new solution for this issue now that we have the canals?

 

[Leyrann]

It would certainly look weird if our citizens would just dig an artificial canal right next to the existing river???

This is the river the Meuse (Maas in Dutch) in the south of the Netherlands. Just right of it? A canal:

Spoiler :

Another one:

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Another one:

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Now, I'll say there's good reasons for all of them, but my point is, just because there's a river doesn't mean you don't want a canal separate from it.

EDIT: Found a fourth one.

Spoiler :

 

[The googles do nothing]

Assuming a river flows parallel to the canal, do you think it will somehow be "fusioned" into the canal?

Rivers should but right now ships and traders don't travel on rivers so I don't think they will be part of canals. Lakes will because ships can travel on them. Should be able to Coast-Canal-City-Canal-Lake-Canal-City-Canal-Coast. It will be interesting to see if canals have to be connected to a city or if Coast-Canal-Coast will be allowed.

Also, which benefits could you imagine for the canal? Aside from the obvious (ship passage), of course.
Should it act as road regarding unit movement? Should it give some gold yield? What about adjacency (it's a district after all)?

Aqueducts give adjacency so Canals should as well. A canal should have the effect of a trading post and allow longer trade routs.

I always found it a pity that rivers don't count as free, natural roads

I think that that will have to wait until Civ 7 where they will halve the scale so they can make a wider variety of terrain. Major rivers with minor rivers coming off of them, waterfalls, river deltas...

 

[Disgustipated]

I miss rivers increasing movement rate a-la Civ2 and SMAC.

 

[anandus]

First, the known facts (according to Ed Beach's announcement "letter")

Where is this letter?
I haven't read that there would be two canal tiles per city. I actually expect(ed) Panama to be a three-tile-wonder (I mean: If a normal canal is 1 tile long a 1-tile Panama Canal isn't that impressie)

 

[leandrombraz]

All I have to say is that it feels really bad to lose a wonder race, people get really mad when that happens. Now imagine if that wonder is the last part of your amazing 7 tiles canal you been planning since early game, you got all other 6 pieces, all that is left is a wonder that is one turn of being finished and then someone else built it and you're left with a canal that lead nowhere... I already can see all the "are you kidding me!!!" threads popping up. Losing Petra is nothing compared to this, a complete disaster....

 

[chazzycat]

Where is this letter?
I haven't read that there would be two canal tiles per city. I actually expect(ed) Panama to be a three-tile-wonder (I mean: If a normal canal is 1 tile long a 1-tile Panama Canal isn't that impressie)

My understanding is that you can only build 1 canal on either side of a city - you can't just string canals together. But the Panama Canal counts as a city in that respect, allowing you to create a much longer chain of canals (7 hexes).

Canal -- City -- Canal -- Panama Canal -- Canal -- City -- Canal

 

[AriochIV]

I'm not sure you can build more than one canal per city, but does seem from Ed's remarks that canals from different cities (and the Panama Canal wonder) can link up. Here is the relevant passage from Ed's post:

Which brings us to something we know many fans are excited about - the addition of the Canal district. This is something we’ve seen asked for again and again, and we are excited to bring it to fruition in this expansion. There are actually three parts to this. First, we have taken our player’s existing use of cities on one-tile wide isthmuses (what our fans call “canal cities”) and officially recognized these features with the art on the map (which shows a navigable channel through these cities). The second part is the introduction of the Canal district. It’s another tile that provides navigation and since it can connect into cities you can actually use two of them around a city center to create a 3-tile wide path between bodies of water. But why stop there? Here on the Civilization VI team we have heard about “a man, a plan, a canal, Panama” so we felt it was pretty imperative to have a Panama Canal wonder. There’s an achievement in Gathering Storm for creating a full 7-tile navigable path using Canal districts, cities, and this wonder together.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I have a strong feeling that other people are more excited about the whole "Canal" thing than I am. I know I'm missing something, and have been through the whole series. :\

 

[AriochIV]

I'm not "excited" about it, but I think it's a nice feature. I have played many games (especially on fractal maps) where canals would have been a godsend. Granted that navies aren't very important in the game, but they could be a lot more useful if you could more easily get them to where they need to be.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Oh, it's nice, an it's neat, but some people have been talking for years about how it's the #1 thing the game needs. Eh, that's okay, cool for them too.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'm not sure you can build more than one canal per city, but does seem from Ed's remarks that canals from different cities (and the Panama Canal wonder) can link up. Here is the relevant passage from Ed's post:

The implications are that you can only place a Canal district adjacent to the city core, and that you can place the Panama Canal Wonder adjacent to a Canal (that may even be a placement prerequisite, but that's speculative on my part).

If the "must be adjacent to city core" is a rule for Canal placement, then you get to a 7 long canal via the following chain:

ocean - Canal - City Core - Canal - Panama Canal Wonder - Canal - City Core - Canal - ocean

 

[Tomice]

I'm not sure you can build more than one canal per city, but does seem from Ed's remarks that canals from different cities (and the Panama Canal wonder) can link up.

I believe you will be able to build 2 per city. Multiple neighborhoods are already possible, so there's no engine/UI limitation. And it would be very awkward to realize you need 4 cities for Ed's prominently advertised achievement.

 

[rastak]

As a side note, thanks to AriochIV for once again updating Well of Souls with new Civ Expansion information as always. Great job once again.

 

[AriochIV]

You're quite welcome.

I guess that would imply that the Panama Canal wonder is just a single tile, and the rest is a normal canal. Which I guess makes sense from a placement UI point of view.

 

[acluewithout]

I have a strong feeling that other people are more excited about the whole "Canal" thing than I am. I know I'm missing something, and have been through the whole series. :\

Canals seem really silly in Civ. To me, canal cities were just a goofy thing you could do.

But it doesn’t effect gameplay. It’s really not any more goofy than Golf courses (how are these locked to one a Civ? You can’t even capture them! Japan will have words!) And some people really wanted it. So, it’s cool. I hope the people that wanted it really dig it.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

For me canals are a nice addition. But canals reaching up to 7 tiles seems a bit silly.

 

[Kurtbob]

Do you think naval units will act the same in canal hexes as they do in coast/ocean hexes? IE move through the canal using the same number of movement points, be bombarded by ranged attack, attack with its own ranged attack if a ranged naval unit, melee naval combat, etc? Do you think opposing land and naval units can occupy the same canal hex? Can land units attack a naval unit in a canal hex?

I am really curious to see how all this will work out.

 

[AriochIV]

Do you think naval units will act the same in canal hexes as they do in coast/ocean hexes? IE move through the canal using the same number of movement points, be bombarded by ranged attack, attack with its own ranged attack if a ranged naval unit, melee naval combat, etc? Do you think opposing land and naval units can occupy the same canal hex? Can land units attack a naval unit in a canal hex?

I am really curious to see how all this will work out.

The canal hex will effectively be a water hex. Either naval units will act like they currently currently do when in city center hexes (attacks go against the district rather than the unit), or they'll act like they do in water tiles. Nothing else needs to change, though hopefully the animations will make this look as clean as possible.

This does raise the question of if or how land units will cross a canal hex. They might have to embark to do so.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

This does raise the question of if or how land units will cross a canal hex. They might have to embark to do so.

Or it works the same way city centres do, and land units can cross it despite it having a "slot" for a naval unit to also occupy the hex.