Can't ask for convertions?

[Vicente]

Playing a Bannor game, I finaly adopted The Order, and converted some cities belonging to friendly civs I had Open Borders with, but in my later diplomatic contacts, I couldn't ask for the other leaders to convert. I know the function is not disabeled as other Civs have asked me to convert in the same game, so... what goes?

Cheers!

 

[WarKirby]

hover over it and it tells you why.

Usually, either

"Too few of our people follow that faith" - spread it to them more.
"We just don't like you enough" - Put a sword to their throat and ask them again, nicely
"That would go against everything we stand for" - they're beyond hope. Annihilate those infidels.

 

[saathei]

No, them being unwilling isn't the problem. The problem is that the option isn't even in the list to hover over.

 

[Emptiness]

Perhaps this problem is not limited only to vassal states. (See here.) I wonder if these changes to the diplomacy system were made intentionally, or ported with WildMana, or introduced as a bug.

 

[Sephi]

it's intended. If you have build Chalid, would you convert from Empy to another religion for a pesky diplo modifier? Religion in FFH is much more important than in BTS so the AI doesn't give in this easily.

 

[Emptiness]

That's certainly a good reason not to change religions. It might be better if instead of having the option absent, it was instead disabled with an on-mouseover message explaining "We have too much invested in our current faith to consider conversion.". Assuming, of course, that it's possible to implement that.

 

[Vicente]

it's intended. If you have build Chalid, would you convert from Empy to another religion for a pesky diplo modifier? Religion in FFH is much more important than in BTS so the AI doesn't give in this easily.

Ah, cheers. So, for exemple, the Khazads won't even show the option because they've built Bambur? Well, it does stop abuses.

Cheers!

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Well I would like for the option to try and force them to convert and if they don't I would have the option to ensure that their god gets a chance to prove his worth. Especially my vassals, if they will not covert I should be able to crush them. In one of my games I tried to convert an AV Kuruitates(sp) so that Basium wouldn't keep DOWing him; even after I destroyed all his AV cities he still would not convert (or give a diplo option to convert, I had already killed the AV hero). In the end Basium had his way with them and slowly molested each and every centaur!!!

 

[nihonjeff]

If the civ in question has recently changed religion, I think it's also removed from the list of options. Try checking with them again in 5-10 turns.

 

[Vicente]

If the civ in question has recently changed religion, I think it's also removed from the list of options. Try checking with them again in 5-10 turns.

Nay, that's not it. In my game Falamar changed to FoL a good 500 turns ago, and I very much doubt he has any hero, with his sole city for almost all of the game.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Nay, that's not it. In my game Falamar changed to FoL a good 500 turns ago, and I very much doubt he has any hero, with his sole city for almost all of the game.

Ditto!!!

 

[Spectral-Fremen]

Sorry to gravedig but I am running into this problem.
The option for asking for religious conversion isn't present even though i KNOW there is no good reason for it.
Anyone have an idea why?
(I'm playing vanilla FFH j patch)

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

It was blocked, so there will be VERY few chances to get them to convert. Even though they keep buggin me to convert.

 

[Spectral-Fremen]

It was blocked, so there will be VERY few chances to get them to convert. Even though they keep buggin me to convert.

Why was it "blocked"?
Is there a way to unblock it?

I swear I've seen it recently in some of my games, it just seems when i actually want to use it, its gone.

 

[Emptiness]

The change was introduced with the AI improvements in patch H. It's not completely blocked, but now the AI won't consider a change if it feels invested in its current religion. Personally, I'd prefer the option to still be listed, but redded out with a reason listed on mouseover (this may be impractical to implement, however).

 

[Spectral-Fremen]

The change was introduced with the AI improvements in patch H. It's not completely blocked, but now the AI won't consider a change if it feels invested in its current religion. Personally, I'd prefer the option to still be listed, but redded out with a reason listed on mouseover (this may be impractical to implement, however).

Mmm, what kind of things make it invested? I know my 'target' has no religion heroes for instance.

 

[Emptiness]

I don't know the details of how that functions. This came up in another thread and iirc Sephi mentioned religious heroes as one of the factors in this decision, but I assume there are others. People have reported being unable to ask for conversion even after spreading a religion to every city of an AI, so insufficient spread is probably not a factor. In my experience it is possible for an AI adopt a religion that is not present in any of its cities and yet still have no option to ask it to convert to a religion that is present in all of its cities (this happens most frequently with Basium), so saturation of current religion is probably not a factor. I'm at a loss to explain the specifics. Perhaps civs have preferred religions and once they adopt them they won't change for anything.

 

[Verdian]

This is probably one of the most frustrating things for me. When this happens, and I am sure they don't have religious heroes and/or a holy city, I just go into world builder and remove their current religion from all their cities. Then they usually convert on their own. If a reason was listed why they won't convert that I could fix (burning their holy city, killing their heroes, spreading the religion), then I would have no problem with the AI being stricter in its conversion choices. But completely removing the option or blocking it in code is annoying.

The only thing worse is convincing your closest ally to convert, and then five turns (or whatever the wait limit is) later watch them switch back. Repeat until I get annoyed and WB their other religion out of them. If the code is ever reevaluated for religion changes, please make the power of your friends and the amount that you like them be a factor.

 

[Spectral-Fremen]

Thanks for the informative post Emptiness.

On a completely unrelated matter, I love your sig. Although for me it often feels like "Don't feed the giant spiders" lol