Can't Nuke own cities

[Eshnunna]

Say a large force is coming up your road, are you telling me you couldn't pillage improvement and slow them down simply because it is in your territory? Of course you can! The same with nukes. If you own it you can target it where you need to, not where some arbitrary rule says you can.

Blowing up a bridge and burning to death or giving cancers to thousands of people who gave you the power ain't exactly the same kinda thing

 

[covenant]

I don't have anything against nuking a stack of doom that is sitting in your borders, but nuking your own city, I just don't understand that.

Edit: It does make sense though that they excluded this from the game. I mean do you really think a nation would nuke it's own territory just because there might be a chance that a city might be captured. I understand that a game isn't meant to be 100% realistic or historic, and I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying it makes sense the game developers excluded nuking your own territory.

The point isnt that a leader would, its that they could if they really wanted to. There is no law or force in the universe stopping it.

Considering the game is built around options, to make such an arbitary disicion on what I can or cant do seems silly.

This will be modded very quiclkly. Not cause people will start nuking their own cities but because people dont like being told they cant.

 

[LauriL]

The whole thing is a good idea, about the nuking being kind of a "last chance" option.

I think the "cities" in CIV must be considered as sth like the capital of a state in the US for ex. The area between them is filled with small towns, crops and people.

"civilized" govts therefore would rather surrender than nuke their own citizens. But of unfortunately nuking his own land is exactly the kind of stuff that an Hittler could do... so the question is still open. Maybe police state totalitarisms with the "mad statesman" new civic should be allowed to self nuke?

What if there's a threat that a civilized country could be invaded by a totalitarian country. The totalitarian regime could slaughter hundreds of thousands of citizens. Only way to stop them would be to nuke those bad guys on your land. What would you do?

 

[Gebstadter]

I think the bigger issue is that you can't use nukes inside your borders. It would be pretty extrordinary circumstances that caused you to nuke your own city. It's just not something that's likely to happen. The point is, when you have a nuke, you have the ability to target whatever you want to target. Say a large force is coming up your road, are you telling me you couldn't pillage improvement and slow them down simply because it is in your territory? Of course you can! The same with nukes. If you own it you can target it where you need to, not where some arbitrary rule says you can.

If you buy the no-city-nuking argument, then it makes some sense to disallow nuking within your own borders (at least on land) because there's probably some assumption that your rural population is scattered about the land outside your cities.

 

[Eshnunna]

IMHO if the only way left to damage your opponents is to nuke them, meaning that all conventionnal forces already failed, it means that you're totally overwhelmed. No matter how many ennemies you kill, there will always be more to invade you (unless you have the capability of nulking all their homeland, in which case you probably won't need to nuke yours). So nuking your citizens will only delay the fall and therefore is probably not worth it.

On the other hand, turning your country into an uninhabitable radioactive desert may cut down the interest the ennemy has in it. Might be a good strat.

 

[Eshnunna]

=Only way to stop them would be to nuke those bad guys on your land.

Thats too theoretical to be a true world situation. -or even a civ one
Nuking them would never be enough

 

[EdCase]

But in terms of Civ, this rule makes it harder for smaller civs. A high tech small civ with nukes should be able to defend itself; but these limitations mean that if the small civ is outnumbered and the enemy troops make it to its soil - the small civ is done.

Additionally, if A and B civs are nuke powers, and the war is being fought in A's territory, then A is a huge disatvantage: Civ B can use nukes "on the battlefield" and civ A can't. I don't see how this is good.

If the battle is not being fought at the border then A is done anyway. It signifies B has the stronger force,as you stated, backed by nukes..so in this situation you disperse your forces(to prevent mass annihilation),nuke his economy/supply centers (cities) and immediately sue for peace.
Desperate times=Desperate measures

 

[bundy]

I sometimes nuked some of my teritory when enemy kad large army there. And nobody did punish me becouse of that. Nobody protested so i use more nukes on my teretory then on enemy teritory

 

[Modifiable]

I really like your idea of the "mad statesman" civic. That could be a lot of fun.

 

[Modifiable]

This will be modded very quiclkly. Not cause people will start nuking their own cities but because people dont like being told they cant.

I think this is the best point made yet. It really isn't about some obscure scenario that might lead you to nuke your own city or people, It's just about being told you can't.

 

[Tactician Zhao]

when I was younger I enjoyed the "scorched earth" strategy if I was being overwhelmed.. mostly due to the short temper and pettiness I was plagued with back then..

I can't think of a situation where I'd want to nuke my own city, but thats not really the issue.. its nuking stacks of invaders, and I have never had that problem anyways, as I tend to play pretty defensively.. active defending and choke points usually keeps me safe, and I'm rarely in a position where I would even need to nuke defensively

I can understand how people would want to, however, and I'm glad the game is heavily modifiable

 

[GIR]

i cant nuke my own land? no "atomic test in deserts"? - i will mod this first...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Actually more people died from the fallout than from the blast in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Both bombs if memory serves were both 1 kilotonne in yield but very very very dirty.

Actually the people were killed by a combination of blast/fire hurting them and the complications from blast/fire destroyed infrastructure and direct radiation weakening them (so minor injuries became fatal with infections and limited food/water/medical care)

They were about 10 kt, and those levels of bombs should hurt a city significantly, but they wouldn't obliterate everything an a vast metropolitan area (which is what a civ tile would represent.)

The effect of Nuclear weapons really needs to be more of the direct destruction and less the 'fallout/pollution' because unless a ground burst is done, the fallout is an incredibly minor/short term effect (most of the really dangerous stuff being eliminated in a year or going into the atmosphere.)

Now Multiple nukes leading to large scale global fallout and climate change should be in, but the 'nuked squares' would probably just be best stripped of all improvements.

 

[Tactician Zhao]

Actually more people died from the fallout than from the blast in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Both bombs if memory serves were both 1 kilotonne in yield but very very very dirty.

Little Boy (dropped on Hiroshima) had a yield of about 13 kilotons

Fat Man (dropped on Nagasaki) had a yield of 25 kilotons

 

[knupp715]

The fact is the game developers made a rule that said you can't nuke your own land which makes perfectly good sense based on realistic thinking. I don't think anyone is arguing that you should be able to nuke your own city because that is just a stupid and unreliable strategy. And in real life you wouldn't just nuke your own land. Remember in civ that cities only represent major cities, commercial, and industrial centers. Inbetween those large cities are small cities (like the one I live in, in Auburn, New York) and people live all over. In real life, leaders wouldn't go around nuking there own people unless they were criminally insane and even then they wouldn't be allowed to unless it was a dictatorship.

So anyways, to the point, I agree that you should be able to nuke your own land to kill an enemy army, but I understand why the game dev. excluded this from the game (for the reasons I stated above - realism). Either way It will be modded to suit what people want.

 

[ew0054]

Heh, I did this once when i was playing a Chieftain game just to remember how easy it used to be... when I started building SS components I built 1 nuke for every city in the world, including my own... 1 turn from SS completion, i launched nukes at every city (including my own) with the only exception being the city producing that final SS component...

massive nuclear fallout across the entire world... not many happy civ opponents left.. and then i launched for alpha centauri "Merry christmas, here's your gift... now I'm out of here! have fun..."

ah, the good ol' days...

LOLOLOL!!! I LOVE IT!