Capitulation

[Tarzan737]

I have problem with Capitulation and i want to know if its just me or everyone!!

when i have made war to someone and captured almost everything of opponent
and have high warscore and want to make him to capitulate its impossible..

and everything is greyed out of my items so i cant even try to get better values..
if i hover over my gold per turn item its written you cant give gold and gold per turn at
the same time or something like that.
in earlier versions i could try to give luxeries or strategic recources to make
better values and maybye he could get my vassal (still hard)

 

[black.dr]

right! it also happen in peace treaty.
hope .23 version fixed this

 

[Zanteogo]

I have noticed some weirdness going on also. To be honest the whole warscore system and been screwy ever since the warscore decay was added it. It actually worked pretty solid just before this feature was added.

The first issue is sometimes, particularly early on in a game, the game will seem to ignore the warscore. You will request peace and have a positive warscore, but be unable to demand anything. Everything will be grayed out. It is similar when the AI requests peace sometimes and is asking for a straight no conditioned peace. However, you are the one asking for peace and have warscore points to spend, but the game won't let you.

The second issue is the value the warscore system and the AI holds on peace. It doesn't seem to actually match up to what is occurring, particularly when it comes to capitulation. This is usually a late game issue. I will be wiping the floor with the AI and have it (annoyingly) refuse to even make peace. When it actually comes time I'm lucky to get a 5 GPT deal out of it. I love the idea of the vassal system, but when you are the clear winner and could easily take out the whole civ in a few turns, it shouldn't be refusing capitulation. (live to fight another day and all that)

I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I'm only trying to give feedback here, but again, the warscore system seemed to be working pretty good up until the point the decay was added in. I'm not sure if it is the actually decay mechanic or some other factor added in at the same time, but I found the whole system worked well up until this point.

 

[a1nosweat]

Peace cannot be brokered straight after capturing a city....I find after leaving them alive for a few decades they come to me with capitulation terms.

That said I've not really tested this since 1/14

 

[Zanteogo]

Peace cannot be brokered straight after capturing a city....I find after leaving them alive for a few decades they come to me with capitulation terms.

That said I've not really tested this since 1/14

I'm not a fan of the whole hard set refusual of peace after a city has been taken. G claims that it's not a hard limit, however I have never actually seen it not act this way in game.

Also, the warscore is not supposed to decay while the AI is in its "peace refusal mode". However, it seems to still decay.

 

[black.dr]

problem is still exists in latest .23 ver.

 

[black.dr]

any way to fix this

 

[IcyAngel]

Yeah, I've only ever managed to make someone capitulate once, out of many many attempts. The AI does not seem to value imminent annihilation very much!

Also, never could I bribe a civ to DoW another. Never. And I try every game, multiple times. I can give them 10 luxuries and 5k gold to declare war on a civ they hate, with half their military power, and they'll refuse. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong...

 

[black.dr]

Yeah, I've only ever managed to make someone capitulate once, out of many many attempts. The AI does not seem to value imminent annihilation very much!

Also, never could I bribe a civ to DoW another. Never. And I try every game, multiple times. I can give them 10 luxuries and 5k gold to declare war on a civ they hate, with half their military power, and they'll refuse. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong...

but.. how you capitulate peace treaty not giving optionn to trade!

 

[Gazebo]

I have problem with Capitulation and i want to know if its just me or everyone!!

when i have made war to someone and captured almost everything of opponent
and have high warscore and want to make him to capitulate its impossible..

and everything is greyed out of my items so i cant even try to get better values..
if i hover over my gold per turn item its written you cant give gold and gold per turn at
the same time or something like that.
in earlier versions i could try to give luxeries or strategic recources to make
better values and maybye he could get my vassal (still hard)

It is no longer legal to add items to your side of a peace treaty if the AI is surrendering (as you could easily manipulate the AI this way).

The second issue is the value the warscore system and the AI holds on peace. It doesn't seem to actually match up to what is occurring, particularly when it comes to capitulation. This is usually a late game issue. I will be wiping the floor with the AI and have it (annoyingly) refuse to even make peace. When it actually comes time I'm lucky to get a 5 GPT deal out of it. I love the idea of the vassal system, but when you are the clear winner and could easily take out the whole civ in a few turns, it shouldn't be refusing capitulation. (live to fight another day and all that)

The problem isn't decay, it's the AI valuation model of vassalage. Putmalk's original implementation in the dealAI pretty much required only 1 city to remain, and that's the way it still is. It's on my todo list (keep in mind that vassalage is NOT actually my mod, it's another user's mod that I've tried to fix).

G

 

[StMikael]

It is no longer legal to add items to your side of a peace treaty if the AI is surrendering (as you could easily manipulate the AI this way).



The problem isn't decay, it's the AI valuation model of vassalage. Putmalk's original implementation in the dealAI pretty much required only 1 city to remain, and that's the way it still is. It's on my todo list (keep in mind that vassalage is NOT actually my mod, it's another user's mod that I've tried to fix).

G

Hmm ... seems like it is still this way, unfortunately. I have a 100 war score, the enemy wants to surrender, although he does have a few cities left. No option for capitulation.

 

[Vhozite]

Hmm ... seems like it is still this way, unfortunately. I have a 100 war score, the enemy wants to surrender, although he does have a few cities left. No option for capitulation.

I don’t want to ask an obvious question, but are you in the Medieval era yet? It’s not possible to take vassals until then.

 

[StMikael]

I don’t want to ask an obvious question, but are you in the Medieval era yet? It’s not possible to take vassals until then.

No, I'm in the the Modern era. But something strange happened after my former post. I actually did receive that enemy as a vassal, automatically, when I asked what he would be willing to pay for peace. He offered gold and GPT, which I accepted - and all of the sudden, he was my vassal. But no "capitulation" message or anything similiar showed up.

 

[Zanteogo]

Hmm ... seems like it is still this way, unfortunately. I have a 100 war score, the enemy wants to surrender, although he does have a few cities left. No option for capitulation.

Ya, not sure what G is referring to here, because I don't recall it even being that we couldn't add options to the AI surrender. Not sure I want that option to be removed because the AI hardly ever suggests capitulation, even when it should.
(edit: never mind just noticed this post is from 4 years ago..)

My only issue with the whole vassal system is how hard it is to have a vassal rebel. Not sure if it can be improved on, but currently it seems linked to your military score against their score. (and if they are happy being your vassal)

Right now it's super easy to keep them happy. Don't tax them (you don't get much from it anyways), and send a trade route to them. Ta da! Happy slave.

What they should be doing it waiting until you are engaged in multiple wars. Of course their military score should be some factor, cause no point in taking a vassal if they are constantly rebelling. The side of effect of the condition to rebel never happening is the social policy that prevents them from rebelling doesn't do much.

One thing though, it used to be once a civ broke free from vassalage that for an insane number of turns it couldn't be re-capitulated. I don't know if this is still true, but it's a stupid unfun effect of the system. If you manage to re-beat down a previous vassal you should be able to take them on as a slave again.

Side note, as of the newest patch version I am unable to trade cities back to my vassal. (again) Not sure why this has returned. Maybe I just got unlucky in my current games? Of course the whole "impossible" issue with trades in general has needed a good long look for some time.