Carl Sagan exploit

[Mesix]

I discovered a exploit with the GS Carl Sagan (probably also the GE Sergei Korolev).

I was going for a Space VC. I had two cities with Space Ports, one on my main continent and one on a different continent. The city on the main continent was building the Moon Landing project, so I moved Sagan to the other continent to position him to rush one of the Mars modules. I was still researching the final techs, so I wanted to be ready to rush the final pieces of the puzzle.

While waiting, I also got the next GS (Stephanie Kwolek) through patronage. This gave me +100% towards building space projects and may be a contributor to what happened.

When I activated Carl Sagan, the Mars project was finished in one turn. I also had quite a lot of overflow production...so much overflow production that I laid down an Entertainment District the next turn with overflow left...lots of overflow. Two turns after, I bought an Arena and a Zoo and then built a Stadium in one turn with overflow still remaining. Three turns after, there was enough production overflow remaining to build the Estadio Do Maracana wonder in a single turn with (you probably guessed it) still more production overflow remaining! After this I completed campus research projects every turn for about 8-9 turns until the overflow ran out.

So one GS got me:

A Mars project
An Entertainment District (late game)
A Stadium
The Estadio Do Maracana wonder
and about 9 Campus Research projects

 

[MyOtherName]

Even better is to get all of your mars modules done in the course of three turns. (one turn if you have two tiles to harvest)

 

[glaivemaster]

This was the story of my first Science Victory (which, due to beginner errors, would have taken another 70+ turns otherwise). Carl Sagan stacking with the production boosts is incredibly strong, and like MyOtherName points out, can be harnessed to produce all 3 Mars modules in the space of 3 turns.

I like to imagine Carl Sagan singlehandedly building an entire Mars Colony

 

[Victoria]

I would hate to think its an exploit. I always am saving the gold and pushing Big Ben, saving chops so I do not have to moronically wait 60 turns to finish them. Had a space city of 170 prod last night, felt gooooood.

 

[DemonMaster]

Since this goes for whoever uses him, human or AI, not so much of an exploit. Although he is a little bit OP.

 

[Mesix]

I think the intention is that you should be able to finish a SS project using him. The fact that the production overflow is enough to rush 2 or more wonders (or late game districts) in the following turns is most definitely an exploit.

 

[Magil]

Yeah, I wouldn't call it an exploit per se, but it does seem unintended that you can multiply the production and then put it into overflow. Looking at the values, Sagan gives 3000 production on standard speed, so doubled that'd be 6000. It seems to me that, at the very least, the overflow shouldn't be multiplied.

 

[kaspergm]

Exploit or not, it doesn't make much sense that his production gets the multiplier also, not to mention the fact that it's OP as hell.

Spoiler :

When that's said, end-game is boring as hell, so having not to wait for multiples of 30-40 turns of each space part to build is rather a life-saver. So I hope this loophole does not get closed until the address general scaling in endgame.

 

[Victoria]

It is worse than that with goddard and a military academy, its 7800. If you wanted to wait around there is an informationsl engineer as well I believe with 100% extra... 9800 prod in one turn. Yeeeha!

 

[Piruparka]

So you activated Stephanie Kwolek first and then Carl Sagan, right? Will try to get this to work in my current game.

 

[Victoria]

Definately does, enjoy.

 

[Japper007]

The same weird overflow "feature" was found by the NQ community a few weeks after release. On quick speed if you layer the already low cost of warcarts with the plus prod to cav bonus you can keep one-turning warcarts while building up enough overflow production to one-turn everything eventually*. Apparently it works with everything where a multiplier is applied to the current build. The overflow is counted as having the same modifier as the thing you are actually getting the bonus too!

Say you have Agoge active and build an archer, whatever overflow you have from the archer build gets multiplied too, even if you build something else entirely. I'm sure with some micro you could use it like like the "built culture" bug in civ4 with as hilariously a broken result...

*

 

[kamex]

So you activated Stephanie Kwolek first and then Carl Sagan, right? Will try to get this to work in my current game.

The new wonder that gives GE two charges... oh my god...

 

[sa1vy]

Yeah... Overflow with policy card modifiers and great people is an exploit I hope gets fixed. It seems to me that this cannot possibly be working as it was intended.

 

[Mort_Q]

Keep it. Carl deserves to be a "you win" card.

 

[Victoria]

I agree, if you get him then he os like the bonus that stops ypu having to grind away for hours just to see the same video again

 

[Wingednosering]

I would hate to think its an exploit. I always am saving the gold and pushing Big Ben, saving chops so I do not have to moronically wait 60 turns to finish them. Had a space city of 170 prod last night, felt gooooood.

How on Earth did you manage 170 prod?!?!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think the intention is that you should be able to finish a SS project using him. The fact that the production overflow is enough to rush 2 or more wonders (or late game districts) in the following turns is most definitely an exploit.

The "x is an exploit" argument gets tired. Assigning "exploit with 100% probably" to a tactic is a major claim to make w/o backing it.

I find that when asked to pre-list criteria whereby a player would consider something to be an "exploit", they ban standard by-design gameplay, then default to "I know one when I see one".

No, they don't.

Rational criteria is self-consistent, so what criteria *confirms* this particular action as an exploit, that can consistently be applied across the rest of the game and allows a neutral observer to properly anticipate and identify future exploits? Note that "developer intention" is a farcical cop-out, unless the developers list such criteria themselves (show me a developer who does this effectively + consistently, and I'll go buy his game).

If "exploit" = "I don't like this", then the term itself doesn't carry much meaning.

 

[Victoria]

How on Earth did you manage 170 prod?!?!

It was 15 pop city if I remember amd all 15 were on hill tiles with an industrial zone and about 15 trade routes coming in averaging about 3. Those trade routes all have a source campus so feed the entire city.

Its mainly about how many plains hills you can get hold of, you do not need food.

 

[sa1vy]

I call the overflow production from Carl Sagan an exploit because the wording suggests that the production can only be used on space race projects. "Provides 3000 production towards the Space Race construction project" seems really clear cut to me. I classify similar tactics like using other great engineers on wonders or production modifier cards on military/builders then using the extra production for something else also as exploits.
The wording suggests (at least to me) the production could only be used for that specific item. If they meant for the extra production to be used however you wanted, they would state that. You can interpret it how you want, be there isn't any doubt in my mind this isn't working as intended.
To be clear, I'm not bashing on any play-style. My favorite part about strategy games is finding the best/most efficient ways to win, so I make use of every tactic, or exploit, I can. This is just one thing that I don't think makes the game better, and I wish it operated differently.