Casus belli

[AnotherPacifist]

Another concept that could (and should) be carried over from Europa Universalis is casus belli, i.e. if you declare war without provocation you should have a penalty, be it a drop in stability, unhappiness ("the world considers you a villain!") or loss of foreign contacts besides the ones you're declaring war on. Of course if you're declaring war as part of a defensive pact this should not happen. A perfect time to institute this would be after the construction of the AP (UN can do it too but is too late), which represents some form of international organization overseeing world peace.
Maybe a casus belli is available if a civ is more than -6 in relationship with you?

 

[Úmarth]

I don't think it really fits in with civ. In EU you can manufacture a casus belli pretty easily if you have a couple of years but in civ that's usually less than a turn, so it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

How about a casus belli if
1. Your opponent has a city in your historical area
2. Your city was razed
3. They sent you an insult (too bad this doesn't work in Civ4, because as the Ottoman Empire in EU3 I insulted every nation in the world and have 1/4 of the HRE in my control, besides half of Russia, Transylvania, Greece and my traditional lands). Recently I have tried to build up a -12 with my soon-to-be-invaded opponent by demanding ridiculous things from them, so that they'll declare war on me, activating my defensive pacts
4. A diplomatic faux pas by your opponent's (a special event)

 

[kbk]

I think this is reasonably represented in stability loss for having citizens the same religion as a civ you are at war at.

EU3 stability concerns also included cultural groups which are probably too difficult to work in realistically. And decree's of honor and protection. I don't think this would work too well the vassal/defensive pact axes of power that can exist.

Though if you did implement it, some civics should allow you to completely bypass having a casus belli (like nationhood, or Occupation).

 

[onedreamer]

Pacifist, "casus belli" is a european concept (in fact, the game is EUROPA universalis). Civ/RFC is not as euro-centered as EU.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It was first formalized by the 18th century European legalists, but wikipedia cites numerous non-European wars (Spanish-American War, the World Wars, the recent invasion of Iraq, the Israeli-Arab 6-day war) with casus belli. Now, I concede that it would be tough to find WMD in Turkey or Arabia in RFC (simply because Turkey and Arabia are usually behind and except for Baghdad, don't have the production to produce them in significant numbers).
In fact the UN can even mandate invasion of a country if it has sufficient reason to do so.

 

[sdLeo]

It was first formalized by the 18th century European legalists, but wikipedia cites numerous non-European wars (Spanish-American War, the World Wars, the recent invasion of Iraq, the Israeli-Arab 6-day war) with casus belli.

But you only give examples of 'European' countries:
Spain: European,
US: came from Europe,
World Wars: Euro-centric,
Israel, Iraq, other Arab countries: created by Europeans!

I know, a bit too simplistic. But there's a lot of truth in it.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, I didn't mention the Vietnam War (also created by Americans who are mostly descendants of Europeans) or the Russo-Japanese War (over spheres of influence of Russia and Japan in the far East, but Russia is a European country). At least I know that China in all its dynasties and civil wars didn't declare war without an ostensible "reason" (a very loose term) in major campaigns.

 

[blizzrd]

Well, I didn't mention the Vietnam War (also created by Americans who are mostly descendants of Europeans)

The Vietnam war was created by the French and continued/exacerbated by the Americans.

At least I know that China in all its dynasties and civil wars didn't declare war without an ostensible "reason" (a very loose term) in major campaigns.

China under the Ming Dynasty declared war on the Khmers of south-east asia.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Heck, even a pig can be a casus belli:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War