Catapult and Iron questions

[mikeinmukilteo]

I'm sure these is super simple, but here they are anyway. I bet there are threads for both of these already; I can't find the answers to these, though...

What the heck is the deal with the catapult? I can't figure out when or why it works or doesn't.

Also, is the limit of resources (like iron) known? What can you get out of one iron square, etc?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

What the heck is the deal with the catapult? I can't figure out when or why it works or doesn't.

It's a Bombardment unit; it doesn't have Attack or Defense, but you can use it to Bombard enemy units, cities, or tiles. This is effectively a free attack against a unit (and in the Civilopedia, IIRC).

Also, is the limit of resources (like iron) known? What can you get out of one iron square, etc?

AFAIK, there is no 'limit.' If you have a resource hooked up, you have that resource. Now, there is a possibility that a Strategic Resource will be depleted (IIRC, only Horses are not affected by it), but it's unrelated to how many units have been produced - I've had one source of Iron last me the entire game (indeed, gone entire games without resources depleting at all) on some occasions, while other times Iron or Oil will deplete the turn after I hook them up.

 

[mikeinmukilteo]

It's a Bombardment unit; it doesn't have Attack or Defense, but you can use it to Bombard enemy units, cities, or tiles. This is effectively a free attack against a unit (and in the Civilopedia, IIRC).

I understand the Bombard thing, but most the time it doesn't seem to do anything if I'm flinging it at a town/city. Sometimes it says something about it failing; most the time, though, it doesn't, but I can't see that anything happened.

And what does the 4 bombard number mean? I haven't played far enough to get to cannons or beyond yet to see the difference.

AFAIK, there is no 'limit.' If you have a resource hooked up, you have that resource. Now, there is a possibility that a Strategic Resource will be depleted (IIRC, only Horses are not affected by it), but it's unrelated to how many units have been produced.

I thought this was the case. I've only played a handful of games and only two where I've understood most of what was going on. In both of those games my iron resource disappeared fairly quickly (something like in 5 and 15 turns would be my guess). Maybe that was just bad luck.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

I understand the Bombard thing, but most the time it doesn't seem to do anything if I'm flinging it at a town/city. Sometimes it says something about it failing; most the time, though, it doesn't, but I can't see that anything happened.

If Bombardment is successful, the top unit will be damaged. If there are no units, or all the defending units are red-lined (Bombardment is almost never Lethal, though a few units have Lethal Land Bombardment), either a Citizen will be killed or an improvement destroyed. If the city is Size 1 with all defenders redlined and no improvements remaining, all Bombardments will fail.

And what does the 4 bombard number mean? I haven't played far enough to get to cannons or beyond yet to see the difference.

Bombardment units have no Attack or Defense numbers, only Movement and Bombard, Range, and Rate of Fire. Catapults have 4/1/1, Cannon have 8/1/2. So they both have 1 Range, but the Catapult's Bombard (which is the same thing, essentially, as the Attack of a normal unit) is only 4, while Cannon have 8. Catapults only have 1 Rate of Fire, while Cannons have 2 - this means that it's possible for a Cannon to deal 2 HP damage to a defending unit, while a Catapult can only deal 1 Damage.

 

[CommandoBob]

If Bombardment is successful, the top unit will be damaged.

You will able to see this damaged unit briefly, then it will be replaced with the next best defender. If city improvements are destroyed, there will a message telling which one got hit.

There is a bug with bombarding cities. If the city has a Great Wonder, there is a chance it might be destroyed by bombardment, which is generally a bad thing to have happen. It is referred to as The Great Wall Bug. I haven't run into it, but others have.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

And if you're playing Conquests, you will damage all units first, while in Vanilla/PtW, I think you can actually hit improvements/population before units (haven't played them, really, so I'm not sure).

 

[DWetzel]

If Bombardment is successful, the top unit will be damaged.

Minor nittery alert: it's possible to bombard a unit that's not on top, if the top unit is redlined but is still the best defender (think redlined musket on top, with 2/3 longbow underneath) -- in this case you hit the best defender that isn't on top.

 

[Sparthage]

Minor nittery alert: it's possible to bombard a unit that's not on top, if the top unit is redlined but is still the best defender (think redlined musket on top, with 2/3 longbow underneath) -- in this case you hit the best defender that isn't on top.

Unless you have a bomber or other unit with Lethal Bombardment, which, as the name implies, gives you the possibility to kill a unit without directly attacking it. I believe that only Bombers and Stealth Aircraft have this ability though (F-15?).

 

[Ataxerxes]

And if you're playing Conquests, you will damage all units first, while in Vanilla/PtW, I think you can actually hit improvements/population before units (haven't played them, really, so I'm not sure).

I think you're right. I was very slow catching on to this in C3C that siege was so good. In vanilla I was upset that my siege kept on destroying city improvements - "No, curse you, damage the military. I want the city!".

Another special unit that has lethad bombardment is the H'Wacha. I often don't use the lethal bombardment if I can help it. A unit winning a "gimme" fight can still be promoted to Elite or create a Leader.

 

[GamezRule]

Use a stack of Catapults. Pulling up 1 cat won't make much of a difference, pulling up 15-20 will.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Of everything said, GamezRule's comment about a stack is the most significant. In PTW it is so significant that I don't even bother with bombardment until Artillery becomes available. Movement of 1 and range of 1 just doesn't make it worth the trouble for me.

 

[Raliuven]

Of everything said, GamezRule's comment about a stack is the most significant. In PTW it is so significant that I don't even bother with bombardment until Artillery becomes available. Movement of 1 and range of 1 just doesn't make it worth the trouble for me.

I agree. Unless I capture them from the AI, I don't have any seige weapons until Artillery. One exception might be if I am Korea. 15 cats = 10 swords. I'd rather have the swords.

 

[Spoonwood]

I think you're right. I was very slow catching on to this in C3C that siege was so good. In vanilla I was upset that my siege kept on destroying city improvements - "No, curse you, damage the military. I want the city!".

Another special unit that has lethad bombardment is the H'Wacha. I often don't use the lethal bombardment if I can help it. A unit winning a "gimme" fight can still be promoted to Elite or create a Leader.

It's only land units that can generate a leader.

 

[CommandoBob]

I went and looked up an old game of mine, Chieftain to Monarch: Game Two. This was a Play the World game. And in it catapults could destroy city improvements before/instead of military units.

In C3C this changed. Bombarding a city will first target military units. Once those are all redlined, then either a city improvement will be destroyed or the city will lose population, the next time the bombarding unit scores a hit. This is actually an improvement, since now you can know when all the defenders are on life-support.

The Great Wall Bug is still in effect; that did not get completely removed. But it is much less likely to happen.

 

[GamezRule]

What exactly is the great wall bug? I have never seen it that I know of.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

It was in post 5, but basically it's the possibility for Bombardment to destroy a Wonder. Called the Great Wall Bug because (I assume) it most frequently occurred when trying to take the city with the Great Wall.

 

[GamezRule]

I have never seen it.

 

[CommandoBob]

This two post thread was the best I could find at short notice: What is the "Great Wall" bug? .

I haven't seen it either; just read about it. And it seems to have dimished impact in C3C vs. vanilla.

 

[Lanzelot]

No, I think the "Great Wall Bug" refers to something different:
If a civ has the Great Wall and you bombard a town of that civ (not the town with the Great Wall, another one) and the game decides that this bombardment should destroy one of the towns improvements, then it tries to destroy the city wall, but it can't, because the town does not really have a city wall (it's provided by the Great Wall). The game then crashes.

In Vanilla/PTW this happened quite often, because here the bombardment would first target the town's improvements. In C3C it happens very seldomly, because they inverted the priority (first target are units, and only when all units are red-lined, the improvements become a target).

There is also a similar effect, which happened to me in GOTM98: I had captured the Great Wall in that game, and at one point a barbarian horseman entered one of my undefended towns and the game crashed. Apparently the barbarian tried to destroy the city walls, but as the walls were "undestroyable" (not real walls, but provided by the Great Wall) it wasn't able to, and the game crashed.
I had to reload the game from the auto-save and this time luckily an AI killed the barb before it was able to enter my undefended town.

In another GOTM (can't remember which one) I suffered from the "pure" Great Wall Bug: game kept crashing when I bombarded an AI town. So I had to finish this particular AI without the use of catapults...

I think the same effect can happen with the Pyramids, when bombardment/barbarians try to destroy the "virtual" granary in a town. But have never seen it in my games so far.