'Cause I'm the Taxman

[Silu]

Well, the main thing is that beaker count is the base value used for calculating the weight. Added with the fact that the turn counter weight increases linearly, we can see that early game tech trades give much less WE hate than late game since tech costs increase much faster than linearly. Consider:

Turn 100 Priesthood trade ~ 60 / 100 base values
Turn 300 Assembly line trade ~ 5000 / 300 base values

 

[bestsss]

Of course, just keep in mind it's cumulative.

 

[ungy]

Does the actual number decay, or is the decay in the - traded with WE that you see in the game just the result of more turns knowing the civ?

 

[bestsss]

>> Does the actual number decay, or is the decay in the - traded with WE that you see in the game just the result of more turns knowing the civ?

I dont see how a negative number can be added, so the latter.
However the turn based deal have some effect although their value is reduced 10 times but it's added every turn the deal is in effect. That's it, 'open borders' when both civs have less than 10 cities should have no effect at all.
That being said, trading resources one by one might might also have less effect than trading together since the rounding is per deal.

 

[ungy]

so we definately want to make the priesthood trade --thanks

 

[Rusten]

3 days and still no word from TMIT......

1: Rusten
2: RRR
3: ungy
4: TMIT - skipped
5: stuge - would be up, but weekend is over so I guess swap and play next weekend?
6: BBP - up
7: Silu

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

3 days and still no word from TMIT......

Maybe finishing SGOTM9?
I would switch Vienna on a settler (no whip) and whip the oppodum in Bibracte for two pop overflowing in another settler (nice micro ungy)...
I like Silu's plan to farm a priest, looks the best GP now.

Next settlements could be on copper island (one south of copper and near the sheep?)

 

[babybluepants]

I'm up?! Sorry I haven't started participating yet. Been busy the last few days. I'll have a closer look at the save and post a plan tonight.

 

[Rusten]

I'm up?! Sorry I haven't started participating yet. Been busy the last few days. I'll have a closer look at the save and post a plan tonight.

Yes, things got moved up a bit. Do you want a swap? You've been busy with SGOTM lately so I wouldn't hold it against you.

 

[babybluepants]

^ If Silu wants to take it, that would be better. I'm not fully into this game yet, so I wouldn't wanna mess something up by rushing it. I can take the TS after or whenever.

 

[Rusten]

No problem.

1: Rusten
2: RRR
3: ungy
4: TMIT - skipped
5: stuge - would be up, but weekend is over so I guess swap and play next weekend?
6: BBP - swapped
7: Silu - up!

 

[Silu]

Well that was fast... I'll play it tomorrow I guess. So plan is about:

0. Stop building military
1. Trade Priesthood from SB (?), from someone anyway
2. Start on some double Temples in cities with food and double religion
3. Settle at least 1 more island city, copper&sheep
4. Keep kissing Sury's ass

That sound about right?

BTW, what is an oppodum?

EDIT: How long should the TS be? 10 turns or until something dramatic happens?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

BTW, what is an oppodum?

sorry, that's the french for dun...

looking at the micro of Bibracte/Vienne, I'd go with two settlers, not one, otherwise we 'll have happy problems fast. They will increase our eco so there is no overexpanding here. Agreed on the rest

edit: in anycase, don't whip temples in bibracte because we would end up with another merchant for sure

 

[bestsss]

by the way, I don't know if anyone has noticed but... KK seems to lack metal as well. I'd send the gallics there and try to extort some tech.

 

[Silu]

BTW, what's people's opinion on when to adopt a religion? It would give some happy and quicker Friendly with Sury and none of the Hindus are very zealous, but on the other hand all negative diplo hurts and we're not in such a hurry to get the Friendly while our WFYABTA holds and we should get Pleased soon with Mono. Would also disable the pretty important border culture of Theba that's holding our metal.

^ What benefit would sending an army to Mongolia give? Do you mean whacking up some of his military to get a good peace deal? His cities would certainly be useless to us.

 

[bestsss]

>> ^ What benefit would sending an army to Mongolia give? Do you mean whacking up some of his military to get a good peace deal? His cities would certainly be useless to us.

I said extort... and then free them to Sury.

You will never hit DENY_TECH_WHORE (WFYABTA ) w/ pericles and if he doesn't hate you, he trades... and stalin will feed him techs (since the moronic AI). Easy deals, no fear.

 

[Silu]

I said extort... and then free them to Sury

Dumb of me to not consider that Liberating even 1 city could give +5 relations with Sury... though also hefty penalties from KK and Joao.

 

[bestsss]

if you want less trade value: starve the city to 1 (easy), and dont get any culture there (easy).
AIs like big cities w/ maxi culture

Spoiler :

int CvPlayerAI::AI_cityTradeVal(CvCity* pCity) const
{
	CvPlot* pLoopPlot;
	int iValue;
	int iI;

	FAssert(pCity->getOwnerINLINE() != getID());

	iValue = 300;

	iValue += (pCity->getPopulation() * 50);

	iValue += (pCity->getCultureLevel() * 200);

	iValue += (((((pCity->getPopulation() * 50) + GC.getGameINLINE().getElapsedGameTurns() + 100) * 4) * pCity->plot()->calculateCulturePercent(pCity->getOwnerINLINE())) / 100);

	for (iI = 0; iI < NUM_CITY_PLOTS; iI++)
	{
		pLoopPlot = plotCity(pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE(), iI);

		if (pLoopPlot != NULL)
		{
			if (pLoopPlot->getBonusType(getTeam()) != NO_BONUS)
			{
				iValue += (AI_bonusVal(pLoopPlot->getBonusType(getTeam())) * 10);
			}
		}
	}

	if (!(pCity->isEverOwned(getID())))
	{
		iValue *= 3;
		iValue /= 2;
	}

	iValue -= (iValue % GC.getDefineINT("DIPLOMACY_VALUE_REMAINDER"));

	if (isHuman())
	{
		return std::max(iValue, GC.getDefineINT("DIPLOMACY_VALUE_REMAINDER"));
	}
	else
	{
		return iValue;
	}
}

 

[Silu]

That's something to be considered... Though of course that would have the unfortunate side effect of also reducing the diplo benefits we would gain as well as the penalties. I think I'd rather take the safe route of not stepping on anyones toes and not go on a mongol killing spree here but it's certainly an option.

By the way, do you (or anyone) know what's the condition of a city being tagged as (Liberate) in the trade window for example? AFAIK the only way to get the liberate city diplo (in addition to the fair trade you'd get anyway) and I haven't figured out the workings of that... it doesn't seem to be related to city/tile culture. Distance from capital or something?

 

[bestsss]

@Silu, if you meant me (here is the answer)

There many options (including but not limited to the rightful liberating owner )
but for most of the part
this will do: the AI must not be in financial trouble and must have a city in 9 tiles radius, and must have 4 cities on its own already.
If the city is close to their capital, modified by culture presented in the city there won't be denial, either.
excerpt from (CvPlayerAI::AI_cityTrade, the function returns NO_DENIAL if the AI is willing to take the trade.)

Spoiler :

if ((pCity->plot()->calculateCulturePercent(ePlayer) == 0) && !(pCity->isEverOwned(ePlayer)) && (GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getNumCities() > 3))
{
	if (GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).AI_isFinancialTrouble())
	{
		return DENIAL_UNKNOWN;
	}

	pNearestCity = GC.getMapINLINE().findCity(pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE(), ePlayer, NO_TEAM, true, false, NO_TEAM, NO_DIRECTION, pCity);

	if ((pNearestCity == NULL) || (plotDistance(pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE(), pNearestCity->getX_INLINE(), pNearestCity->getY_INLINE()) > 9))
	{
[B]		return DENIAL_UNKNOWN;[/B]
	}
}
//if the check above pass, that exists in Human->AI relation.
if (isHuman())
{
	return NO_DENIAL;
}

---
I hope I am not misisng something... Those code checks soon will make me play like an AI