Caveman 2 Cosmos

MattCA said:
Event is broken. But ya, those are supposed to be that way I think.
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Perhaps events still care for some flawed reason, but promos shouldn't HAVE to have designated unitcombat types as long as their promotionline indicates the access correctly. Also, I believe we spoke about removing 'hunter' sight from hunters and giving a copy of it instead to recon units, shifting which unit types get the improved vision range. It may never have quite been completed properly.
 
BlueTemplar said:
Hmm, yeah, so far I just don't use any Recons in Prehistoric because they don't seem to be worth it when I could be focusing on Hunters (which are Explorers too !)
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Recom line got a camo visibility buff recently, so there's use in having hunter-scout pairs to specialize animal fight and visibility respectively, though ofc applies mostly to hide and seek gameoption. Recons also tend to make better defenders in case of surprise barbarians too, or at least protect the more valuable hunter for a turn.
 
Ah, nice !

IIRC one big issue was that you need to have something willing to attack the recons for them to get XP...

P.S.: Also the supply cost for 2 units instead of 1 !
P.P.S.: While surprise barbarians can be temporarily dealt with by never ending your last move on a tile that you hadn't scouted yet.
 
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BlueTemplar said:
Ah, nice !

IIRC one big issue was that you need to have something willing to attack the recons for them to get XP...
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If they are protecting other units, there's usually the motive for the stack to get attacked. The taunt promos make it more likely to get the recon units to come up first in the defending of the stack, so along with increasing their ability to withdraw, they become quite good decoy units to take the first powerful hits for any stack, including hunting parties that they may be used to improve overall vision for as well. At least, that's the goal of the design - hasn't always manifested that way.
 
Thunderbrd said:
The taunt promos make it more likely to get the recon units to come up first in the defending of the stack
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Spending a whole promo on just 25% chance kinda defeats the purpose. Though, if all possible taunters roll their 25% each attack, not just best candidate, I can see it being strong.
 
Also the promotion line Stinging Insults available for Recons but not Combatants has ~double the Taunt than the Goad line available for Explorers, Combatants, Canines that starts at +25% Taunt (and also both for lvl 1 have +5% withdrawal, half of Flanking 1 !)

But I'm surprised that Taunt doesn't seem to be explained anywhere in Thunderbrd's Combat threads ??
(there's only a mention of Afflictions - AFAIK not modded in yet ? - modifying it...)
 
Blazenclaw said:
Iirc from when I fixed a bug related to that, it's not 25% chance by dice roll, but that their strength is artificually inflated by 25% when deciding which unit is the best defender of the stack.
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An interesting design, but much less attractive, considering recons' base strength and tech requirements. Even with double Stinging Insults they should only come on top of a stack after stronger troops are injured. So what's their point? Scouts won't ever catch up with stone units and guides are twice as expensive as obsidian units. There are no first strikes to synergize with withdrawal, unless they've used build up, but that will be lost after first fight.
 
Because they are designed to protect weak units in a cheap way ?
Even the much more advanced Hunters with their 2 base strength seem to be designed to be protected by Scout's base 1.33..x1.5 = 1.99.. half of the time ?
(Has anyone bothered to check whether the rounding is going to screw this up ending with a 0% chance instead of a 50% one that I assume you'd get with an equal appearance of strength ?)

Wait, but if it always artificially increases the perceived strength by the same amount for the decision to pick the best defender, why is it called "Taunt Chance" then ??
 
BlueTemplar said:
(Has anyone bothered to check whether the rounding is going to screw this up ending with a 0% chance instead of a 50% one that I assume you'd get with an equal appearance of strength ?)
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Don't forget that hunter promos reduce strength a bit.
 
Haven't been on this forum in over 10 years but it's awesome how this legendary Civ4 mod is still active. I was playing Civ6 with the most popular mods - then remembered this gem and felt that no Civ experience has ever really lived up to it. Might as well give it another run. Didn't OP have an avatar of this dude with a baseball cap back then or was that Future Mod?
 
Blazenclaw said:
Iirc from when I fixed a bug related to that, it's not 25% chance by dice roll, but that their strength is artificually inflated by 25% when deciding which unit is the best defender of the stack.
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Correct, and I recall it being set to +100% previously? Maybe not. Maybe it should be and the value of the tag in the promo AI adjusted to match. I mean, it really should WORK or it's rather ineffective
BlueTemplar said:
Also the promotion line Stinging Insults available for Recons but not Combatants has ~double the Taunt than the Goad line available for Explorers, Combatants, Canines that starts at +25% Taunt (and also both for lvl 1 have +5% withdrawal, half of Flanking 1 !)

But I'm surprised that Taunt doesn't seem to be explained anywhere in Thunderbrd's Combat threads ??
(there's only a mention of Afflictions - AFAIK not modded in yet ? - modifying it...)
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Ah... +100% WOULD be doubling so yeah. And yes, I wanted recon to be extra powerful at it.
Mr Smith said:
An interesting design, but much less attractive, considering recons' base strength and tech requirements. Even with double Stinging Insults they should only come on top of a stack after stronger troops are injured. So what's their point? Scouts won't ever catch up with stone units and guides are twice as expensive as obsidian units. There are no first strikes to synergize with withdrawal, unless they've used build up, but that will be lost after first fight.
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They should be cheaper units than perhaps they are now still and I think I've considered that in the unit review. A few first strike boosting options might be yet another way to really help here, yes, but I didn't want them to be too damaging, mostly protective for the lead units in the stack to retain their strength while the strongest attackers from the attacking stack tend to come in first, letting the strongest defenders come up as a second wave. True that if the scouts aren't getting enough XP to give them enough promos to make it work really well, it only has a partial benefit in lager forces until the scouts get enough to grow the ability further. Perhaps reason to value putting Great Hunters into a strong production city to make a Recon specialist production city?
BlueTemplar said:
Wait, but if it always artificially increases the perceived strength by the same amount for the decision to pick the best defender, why is it called "Taunt Chance" then ??
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Perhaps it shouldn't be referred to as a chance at all given that technically this is true that there's no random element in it. I maybe wanted players to FEEL like there was though.
BlueTemplar said:
But I'm surprised that Taunt doesn't seem to be explained anywhere in Thunderbrd's Combat threads ??
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It's not explained anywhere in the player's guide or links from it? It wasn't one of the initial ideas in the Combat Mods although I do think it was later only included in Fight or Flight as I recall, because the whole strategy is fairly dependent on defensive withdrawal and all the better with early withdrawal.
 
Waterdrop said:
Didn't OP have an avatar of this dude with a baseball cap back then or was that Future Mod?
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That was @strategyonly He's still a part of things of course. Thanks for coming back. It's too bad that the last few years have been tougher to make some desired improvements at a decent rate but I'm sure it's a ton improved over what you originally played still.
 
Waterdrop said:
Haven't been on this forum in over 10 years but it's awesome how this legendary Civ4 mod is still active. I was playing Civ6 with the most popular mods - then remembered this gem and felt that no Civ experience has ever really lived up to it. Might as well give it another run. Didn't OP have an avatar of this dude with a baseball cap back then or was that Future Mod?
Click to expand...
Then you're in for quite a few huge surprises, lol.
This mod has progressed immensely over such a long time.
 
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