CC#2 Investigation Thread ~ The People versus Epimethius

[Octavian X]

This entire CC is ridiculous. He misnamed some citise in the course of doing volunteer work for the good of this game - and someone goes and files a CC? There's some spam on this forum that makes better use of server space! Honestly, the proper conduct, rather than abusing the judicial system, would be a simple request to the President or Interior Ministry (or whomever has control over such things), or just a poll asking for a renaming.

But, I must apoligize for my mini-rant. Epimethius has admitted wrongdoing - case closed. We change the names if people are still actually quilbbling over some extremely minor errors (even which, in my humble opinion, is much more trouble than it's worth).

 

[snipelfritz]

Epi has committed no crime. It seems that it was a simple mistake at most, and it doesn't look like it has had any lasting effects on the DemoGame. I think we can simply excuse this tiny error, and continue our DemoGame.

As for Epi having "too much unchecked power" as Black_Hole stated, this whole situation has barely affected the demogame, and there is no reason to make a big deal, or any deal for that matter, at all.

 

[Crimso]

A poor attempt at character assasination...

 

[Epimethius]

Here are my main points:

-This was a mistake. People make mistakes.
-Both people still got their city names, so I didn't exactly deny them their rights. So I didn't breake any article.
-As I recall the Supreme Court ruled I could post non-binding instructions. So they aren't binding.
-The Will of the People has nothing to do with this matter at all.
-It doesn't matter that this was filed late, besides making this even more pathetic.
-The fact that the plaintiff has only asked for character assasination rather than the much easier to achieve correction of the fault shows that this mistake caused no harm at all, as well as some other things about the case in general.

I tried to throw some peoples names out, and they were good sports about it. Here I accidentally swiched something months ago, and suddenly someone wants it to be addressed. Not fixed, but held against me.

Its seems the only two people who thought anything this deserved any attention at all happened to be on the court.

 

[GenMarshall]

But, I must apoligize for my mini-rant. Epimethius has admitted wrongdoing - case closed. We change the names if people are still actually quilbbling over some extremely minor errors (even which, in my humble opinion, is much more trouble than it's worth).

I would have to agree with the wrong doings Epi has done. I remembered that there was a small uproar when my city list has been fliped to Okinawa when I wanted Shorin-Ryu to be named first. Luckly that situation was corrected in a swift manner.

 

[Ashburnham]

-This was a mistake. People make mistakes.

Chieftess said the exact same thing and was found guilty...

 

[Epimethius]

Yes, but you of all people must agree that was different. Had you taken me to court there you'd be right. I did that on purpose because the name wasn't Japanese enough, and I was rather public about it. But here, I made an honest mistake, which is entirely different.

 

[GenMarshall]

I did that on purpose because the name wasn't Japanese enough, and I was rather public about it. But here, I made an honest mistake, which is entirely different.

Personaly, I beleve that there is no reason to change people's city names because they wernt "Japanese enough". Did we changed the city's names back in Demogame III because they were not Roman enough? No.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Unlike the last CC, this one is quite silly. I do not know what action we can take against a volunteer citizen. I too wish that the CNO was more organized, but there seems to be no law to hold Epi's actions accountable.

 

[Cyc]

What DZ said. I would see this CC done by someone who is against CCs more than I would someone who is against the actions of Epi. In the future, if you are going to file trivial CCs, please state your name.

 

[ravensfire]

First off, my apologies to Epithemius for my delay in responding. My volleyball team did just a bit better in a tournament than I was expecting. Sorry ‘bout that!

Now, to the case!

Citizens of Japanatica, the case being presented before you is a farce, a joke and a mockery of the Judicial process. This is a case purely about politics and a personal attack against Epithemius. This should never, ever have been presented before you, but it was.

Let us look at some aspects of the charge itself. First, this is a relatively minor charge, yet it was posted anonymously. True, all citizens have the right to do so, but ask yourself why they would do this? Epi doesn’t hold an office, isn’t a moderator, and is in no position to do anything to anyone. This was made anonymous because the person filing this knew this entire matter was wrong. They were embarrassed by it, shamed by it, and do not want their name attached to this abuse of the Judicial process.

Look at the timing of this matter. The events alleged to have occurred were 2 months ago. Two months, and only NOW was a complaint filed? Again, this shows the true nature of this CC, that it is a personal attack in disguise against Epithemius.

Finally, let’s examine a direct quote from the charge itself.

All I want with this trial is to have Epimethius proven for obvious misconduct in handling the simplest of the simplest tasks, either to extreme incompetence, or by motivated intent to harm a political rival.

The “concerned citizen” doesn’t want to fix anything, but wants to smack Epi around, to have him labeled “incompetence” or motivated by “intent to harm.” Who indeed is trying to harm who in this matter? I think the “concerned citizen” should examine their own actions.

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[ravensfire]

Citizens of Japanatica, I come before you again to speak in defense of Epithemius on the bogus charges filed against him. I will speak now on the specifics of the case.

First, my client, and the City Naming Office, is accused of violating Article N, specifically the right of each citizen to name a city. In late September, a JR was requested on Article N as it relates to naming rights. Link to review There was a great deal of discussion about naming rights in that ruling, but one thing never, ever entered the ruling – the CNO.

The City Naming Office is a citizen office. It is not created by law, nor is recognized by law. It was created by a citizen to try and organize the chaos that is the Citizen’s Registry, to help all citizens. It serves as an advisory role. In fact, from mid October on, the CNO was inactive, and nobody noticed. Indeed, the very cities that this CC cites were never brought to the attention of the CNO.

If this “concerned citizen” was so bothered by this action, why didn’t they ask the CNO, who they feel is responsible for posting legal instructions for city names? Why didn’t this “concerned citizen” ask to have this mistake corrected when it happened? Again, another indication that this is just a personal attack on Epithemius in a manner that might sidestep any responsibility. Personal attacks are bad, but anonymous personal attacks on the other hand …

As a citizen’s office, the CNO has no authority, no power and no legal standing. It serves as an advisory role to assist the DP. Epithemius volunteered his time to help those leaders out. He strived to increase the immersion of citizens into Japanese culture, not understanding the connection that citizens have with their names. He’s a new citizen, unfamiliar with such matters.

Without the legal standing to post binding, valid, legal instructions, this case falls apart. Epithemius cannot be held responsible for how leaders follow his advice. There is a large area of unknowns in this area, except that the CNO is not an office that can post valid instructions.

Finally, this accusation fails to show any harm done. Both of the city names in question are in use at this point in time, nor have either of the citizens who provided those names have objected, nor noted in the CNO, the registry, nor in any other thread. This “concerned citizen” seems to feel that since the citizens involved haven’t complained, they must be unhappy! Sorry, that doesn’t fly. It’s quite obvious that the citizens supposedly hurt by this don’t care. The names they proposed are being used right now. No harm was done. None.

Citizens, this entire case is a misuse of your time in a blatant personal attack on Epithemius by a “concerned citizen” to ashamed of their own action to use their own name. As this case unfortunately moves towards the trial phase, I urge you all to consider both the evidence provided, the law involved, and the down-right ugly, misguided and reprehensible action taken by a “concerned citizen” and toss the case out!

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[ravensfire]

Now to respond to some of the arguments my esteemed collegue, Black_Hole, has posted.

The TCIT(Turn Chat Instruction Thread) is for elected/nominated people of which Epimethius is none. However I believe that if Epimethius posts in the TCIT, then he must follow the WOTP, which he did not.

Such a legal argument! Why, this would mean that ANYONE can post in the TCIT! Surely that’s not the intent of this, right?

In past DG’s, citizens involved in Citizen Office that try to help out elected officials have used the TCIT to post their advice. A recent, notable example is the worker thread from last DG. In a similar manner, Epithemius used the TCIT to post his advice for city names. This was the simplest and most direct manner to convey his advice to the DP.

Simply posting in the TCIT does not indicate “following the WotP”. There are many examples in the past of posted instructions not following the WotP, or of leaders not following the WotP or the posted instructions.

the question is not what the point of the cc is but, was a crime committed?
ask yourself that question, not "do i care about this cc?"

It is absolutely part of the question. This CC is nothing more than a personal attack, delivered by a “concerned citizen” so disgusted at their own action that they cannot even place their own name on it!

Look at the JR I’ve mention, Justice Black_Hole, show me where the CNO was mentioned in there. It’s not, because it is a citizen office. It is created by a citizen to help the entire DG out. Epithemius volunteered his time to do a job no one else wanted. Not once did someone post they would help out, not once! Indeed, has anyone thanked him for his efforts? No.

Show me the harm that was done. Show me where those city names are not used.

Important New Evidence:
Epimethius was actually appointed by Nolodan(domestic advisor) in term 1, and he was confirmed by the president(daveshack).
So technically he is responsible for following the WOTP.

Ah, important evidence! But wait, is this a problem I see? Under what right can a leader GIVE UP responsibility? Indeed, Justice Black_Hole has failed to read DG5JR18 which says, in part, “nor does that right lie with the Domestic Minister, under Article D.1.”

Justice Black_Hole, this evidence is a bogus as this entire case is! The Minister of Domestic Affairs does NOT have the authority over city names. The CNO, the office citizen Epithemius was appointed to, serves to advice, but not instruct, the leaders of Japanatica.

I would also like to ask why it matters the CC was filed late?
Most crimes arent filed the instant they are committed, evidence must be taken, or maybe new evidence just came forward, or maybe someone was looking back and found this out...

I isolate this quote because of my sheer disgust at this CC. The major focus of a CC is to determine if something was done incorrectly, and to correct it. To best use a CC for such a purpose requires that they be filed in a timely manner. This allows for the actions to be corrected, for things to be made right.

In this case, our “concerned citizen” is not seeking to correct anything. They are seeking to label, to destroy, to harass and to attack Epithemius over an action that no citizen involved complained about. Where was there any harm? Are the correct city names as put forth by the citizens involved used? Yes! They are there! If there were not used in the correct order, did anyone complain at that point in time? No! They didn’t!

And yet now, 2 months after the actions we get this “concerned citizen” filing a case about it? Think about this – is this fair? Is this right? Do we now pervert justice to allow actions from months ago, that have no impact on the game, where no harm is done to be reviewed? Justice Black_Hole’s interpretation would have us enter a society where actions from the beginning of the game may be reviewed and any little mistake is hammered.

Citizens – look at this CC and see it for what it is. It’s an attack against Epithemius from a coward too ashamed to put their name on the attack. This case should not have been accepted, should not be discussed and should not be wasting your time. As a member of that court, I apologize for my failure to convince my fellow Justices of that.

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[Sir Donald III]

Thank you, Mr. Public Defender.

And now, for a few contentions of my own as an amicus.

Mr. Judge Advocate, you have charged that Epimethius has violated the Will of the People in executing the City Naming List out of order.

To that end, I ask the JA to produce the specific poll(s) by which the city naming list and the method of determining naming order were approved and made "Official" for ANY Japanatican city (not just the "conquered" ones, but ANY city.)


Also, the Defender says that there was "no harm done". Let me expand on that by saying that not only was only a slight harm done, but from that very slight came what I see as the start of a revival of the Demogame. The City thread of Kagemusha. Would Kagemusha have had the same flavor of Casino Town had it been settled in the Hills or in Productive North Hai Rando rather than the Corrupt Northern Wastes?


Finally, you cite Article N in the original charge. Article N implies a guarantee that every citizen has the right to name a city. It does NOT, however, guarantee a "fair" order of city naming. Is it fair that people who are 1 and done posters in July get a city and a dozen heavily involved latecomers do not?

Heck, using this "right", I can file a CC against the Framers of the City Naming Order for violating Article N. Because we most definitely will not get to my name, even if we go for conquest. Therefore, I am deprived of my right under Article N.

Mr./Ms. Annonymus has undone the locks on one of many Pandora's Boxes in this CC. What's next? A CC against some imaginary person for not telling me to rename Niagara Falls before it flipped back to the Iroquois?

 

[Crimso]

aLRIGHT let's vote on dis now.

 

[Black_Hole]

Its interesting how you say this CC is stupid, however many valid points were brought up. Points may include the how the CNO is created/ran, what is the limit on # of days after the crime has been committed to file a CC, how there are gaps in the constitution(specifacally with the TCIT, which currently has a new judical review over it because of this CC), so to say this CC did nothing good and was pointless is incorrect.

2 Things happened:

1. Flaws in the constitution were found
2. You got to yell at me

 

[Strider]

What exactly is the point of this? The only thing this thread has done for me, is increase my belief that the Judiciary is useless and inefficient. What purpose it does serve, can be so easily over-rided there isn't much fun to screwing it over.

This matter would have been extremely more efficient if it was done in private, between the Accused and the members of the Judiciary.

 

[Black_Hole]

From the Office of The Judge Advocate

This discussion is closed, as the CC has been found to have no merit. No merit doesnt mean Epimethius was all good and did nothing wrong, however it means he didnt break the constitution or code of laws while doing these wrong doings.

A fuller explanation can be found here.

Discussion Closed

 

[ravensfire]

[EDIT]

Of course, I started this just before Judge Advocate Black_Hole's post, and then got grabbed for work stuff ...

So disregard anything you saw there, please move along.

I would like to thank all who did post - while always distasteful to see a CC filed for any reason (even the ones I consider valid), it's nice to see people interested enough in the unpleasant aspects to post here. Thanks, fellow citizens.

And now that this is over, I can jump off my high horse, jump down off my soapbox and stop the courtroom theatrics!

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[Black_Hole]

Ahh, but those discussion need to be held in another place, not in a CC.

How the CNO was run - discussion, as did happen. Painful discussion, but discussion.

Limit on days to file CC - discussion or JR

Gaps in Con - discussion or JR

[personal opinion]
CC's are there to correct actions when the leader does not respond to requests, or the action is blatant and grevious. CC's should not be there for petty actions in an untimely manner over areas of law that are not clearly defined. When there is an area of law that the CC references that isn't clear, some time should be taken to make sure those questions are answered before the CC starts.
[/personal opinion]

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

I agree that it would have been better if the accused did file a few JRs instead of a CC, but that was not done. And there is no changing the past, all we can do is correct this for the future.