CCTP Working Version Progress

Gilgamesch, I used to be addicted to CCTP mod before it became unplayable. You guys are doing a great job. Please, keep it on!

I played on Immortal level (7) with Shoshone. That civ is really unbalanced in pre-historic era because it already has pathfinders instead of cavemen! As there are lots of ruins and pathfinders can choose a reward (like a free settler) I got a couple of new cities in the very early stage of the gameplay and as I had few techs I produced an army of these dudes then upgraded some of them at new ruins to bowmen making all the city-states fear me.

Second bug I discovered: AI civs give me money for free (Trade)! They will give me max 7 gold per turn in exchange for nothing then I just quit the trade window and do the same once again and they still agree.

Btw. there are lots of mods that u could include* but I need to play more to see which of them are already there. I´m going to do so and let u know later.

* Without CCTP, I normally play with roughly 40 mods turned on at the same time ^^
 
Gilgamesch, I used to be addicted to CCTP mod before it became unplayable. You guys are doing a great job. Please, keep it on!

I played on Immortal level (7) with Shoshone. That civ is really unbalanced in pre-historic era because it already has pathfinders instead of cavemen! As there are lots of ruins and pathfinders can choose a reward (like a free settler) I got a couple of new cities in the very early stage of the gameplay and as I had few techs I produced an army of these dudes then upgraded some of them at new ruins to bowmen making all the city-states fear me.

Second bug I discovered: AI civs give me money for free (Trade)! They will give me max 7 gold per turn in exchange for nothing then I just quit the trade window and do the same once again and they still agree.

Btw. there are lots of mods that u could include* but I need to play more to see which of them are already there. I´m going to do so and let u know later.

* Without CCTP, I normally play with roughly 40 mods turned on at the same time ^^

Hey,
we fixed the current crashs, but there is some other work that need to be finished before we will upload the new version.
The release date will be tomorrow, at least if we didnt encounter any other major problem.
Iam aware of the silly shoshone cheat, i found it while run a test game with random civs.
IIRC there was ether a hardcoded problem with the shoshones or something similar.
Will need a workaround, i will look if i can include the changes in the coming update.

For the ai trade , hmm the ai behavior for trading is also changed in CCTP.
Not sure if i will change it yet, need more infos about that before i go to alter the ai defines.....


Edit, the Pathfinder has now the same prerequested technology like the scout, but the units is 10% more expansiv.....
So no start with a pathfinder in the prehistoric era....
 
I started another game in Ancient Era (the same civ, the same level). Other civilizations get very quickly a lot of menpower (40) and electricity! (20) (some civs had twice as much while having only one city, 6 population). I guess it´s not right.

I´ve noticed that Pantheons don´t include new resources, if "Holy Resources" gives 2 Faith for each luxury resource then you should change "Stone Circles", "Tears of the Gods" etc that give Faith for only 1 or 2 resources (unless you´ve already changed it). "Holy Resources" is too powerful in my opinion, because there is much more resources than eg. great person improvements. "Initiation Rites" and "Midas" seem to be the same but with different amount of gold. Kaballa is to precious to be a Founder believe. (it´s something worth of striving for, like only available with Reformation)

I remember in the older version of the mod there was a very good solution (small icons) for the buildings panel in the city view as well as for strategic resources (a list similar to one with luxury resources). You should bring these back or else UI is going to be cluttered.

Wolves sound as if they were firing guns.

What can the laber do? Because I couldn´t use it at all until I upgraded him to Worker.



The game keeps crashing at a certain turn so I start a new one: the Maya, Immortal, Classical Era

Great Explorer - if u could add automatic exploration mode for him it would be awesome. Secondly, I think it is too powerful as you can keep discovering the map with them throughout all the gameplay. I propose giving them damage every turn (similarly to Slaves from the Slaves mod) so that he perishes after 20 turns (or let him heal and then he would die after let´s say 5 turns without healing). Why? Cause if u get him early in the game (Pacal) you will have a significant advantage discovering all the city-states and hence receiving lots of money. btw. there is a mod Exploration continued that offers upgrades for scouts in later eras.

hmm, only 5 turns later I´ve got another great person due to the Maya Long Count Bonus… then 7 turns later again! it keeps being too frequent (and it´s Standard pace)

I got a Bonus Belief with Pacal. Normal?

I could BUY a WONDER (Palace)! Quite cheaply :P

Landed Elite policy should not be available so easily (how about making it a bonus after getting all the policies form the Tradition branch?) or u could make it less powerful. btw. I didn´t play long enough to check but someone made once a nice belief called Religious Migration that gave 1 population in the capital once we convert a city-state to our religion and another that gave 1 population per converted city-state to a newly settled city. It could be a policy as well. (I can check which mod it was for you).

hmmm, I needed to buy a DAncing Ent to unlock the majority of wonders…

Cultural Bomb - cool it´s back but maybe it should have only 1 field range as it used to have? unless you incorporate Cultural Difussion mod with Revolutions (a dependent mod). I don´t see them here and they are nice mods with only one fault that it doesn´t pay to steal fields with a great general cause they would flip back to another civ very soon anyway. Ideally, stealing with cultural bomb would make these fields immune to cultural difussion (i have no idea if this can be done) or would change our civ´s influence on these fields to 100%

Slavery mod - I guess you´ve seen it since there is a familiar-looking tech. I liked the idea that I could capture enemy´s civilian and make it a slave unit.

Other mods you might consider in the future: mercenary mod (chance to convert defeated enemy to our side), Diplomacy Mod (production of diplomats that act similarly to great merchants), Battle Lines (I just wonder if it will work once CCTP is ready, it changes fighting strategy so not everyone may like it but maybe as a checkable option in the setup?), More City-states luxuries, Not Another City-States mod (more types of city-states giving eg science or production), CSunit and Borow Treasure Mod (Allied city states lend us their armies until we lose influence - I liked it cause allied city states didn´t really help during wars being very passive, perhaps you´ve changed it), Wonder Race (informs us if we are losing with someone building the same wonder) + Tech Tree Tips (makes bulit wonders disappear from the tech tree), Unit Path Viewer (useful if we forget where the dudes were going to), I liked Reforestation mod (which doesn´t work with Tree Growth) for giving a small chance to uncover a resource, Separate Great People Counters, Less Damaged Captured Cities (no more than 50%). Also, once I saw (but it didnt work with addons) someone had an idea to bring Civ4´s health and disease issues to the cities. How about medical units that heal our troops?
 
Right first we need to erase the biggest problerms, then we can start to balance other things.
Also not all Mods are compatible with other mods. In some cases there is a massiv workarround needed, and this is very time consuming.

For the Beliefs, the possebilities arnt that big that can be done, and because some people like to have more Religions in the game, we need more Beliefs too.
I know some are more powerfull then others, but this is something that will be changed when we go to balance the mod.
 
Some notes for the coming update.

*The Policies Tradition, Liberty and Piety are now linked to the Ancient Era.
Imperialsm and Pacifism are changed to Prehistoric Era.
Iam working on a new Policy Branch "Humanity" for the Prehistoric Era, but this will come in the next version.
So the Prehistoric Era got now three Branches to choice from, will be changed later.
*Many bugs and problems are fixed, this doesnt mean that everything is completed.
Its still a testing version, but we are making good progress so far.
 
Ok i finished the Humanity Policy Tree.
Anyway Gyogen got the new version and he will merge some parts together.
When he is ready, he will upload the new version.
 
BTW the reason that on diety/decimatus, the ai get that early a religion, is the fact that i add faith to the golden age feature time ago.
In a golden age, every worked tile will grant one free faith, this will end in a early religion for the ai.
I have to think about this, because i would like to use this feature, but i dont like to push the ai that hard.

Like i posted before iam thinking of removing Religion from the Prehistoric era at all.
 
Like i posted before iam thinking of removing Religion from the Prehistoric era at all.

You would need to change the prehistoric buildings that generate Faith then. Or you could leave pantheon beliefs for Pre-historic Era but significantly increase the number of Faith points necessary to found them. Similarly, you could make the first great prophet very costly or, if it´s possible, block his possibility to found a religion before Ancient Era. Players could still use him to create a landmark.

700 points of Faith for a missionary? (still pre-hestoric era). I guess you wanted to prevent AI from spreading religion too early but on the other hand you also prevent US from spreading it to our cities (while AI as always find a way to get them). It´s funny cause the third great prophet costs twice as cheap.

btw. having a great fun with raging barbarians (they are really raging! :D )
 
btw. having a great fun with raging barbarians (they are really raging! :D )

Oh yeah :lol:, nice that you enjoy it.
The settings for barbarians are complete reworked.
Also the complete fighting system in CCTP is overworked.
There is no easy way on the higher difficulty levels.
 
Oh well, just found out that many of the future units still have the vanilla artdefines.
Iam currently adding the warhamer 40k setting to them.

I guess this happends when you never play the complete mod to an end......
 
Oh well, just found out that many of the future units still have the vanilla artdefines.
Iam currently adding the warhamer 40k setting to them.

I guess this happends when you never play the complete mod to an end......

Does Vanilla Defines mean models? If so, I remember that being an issue in the old Chromerome versions for Vanilla Civ V.
 
Does Vanilla Defines mean models? If so, I remember that being an issue in the old Chromerome versions for Vanilla Civ V.


Yes i mean the vanilla art defines of some unit models, i thought the warhammer units where still activated.
I noticed it only because i was trying to make some screenshots.

Anyway its a long time ago since this have been changed.
Many patches and BNW changed the stability and the ability to mod a lot of stuff.
We use alternative defines for some other units, without any problem now over a year.

Lets hope this will not create new problems.....
 
Some notes again.....

*Fixed all missing text strings, still need to add quates and pedia entries, but this is something where you all can help us.
Keep the ideas and suggestions going.

*Erased some minor problems with some civ traits and other stuff.


Next stepp will be the start of the balance of some parts of the mod.

If you have already encountered some to expansiv wonder, building or unit, in relationship to others in there branch, let me now and i will put it on the list.

We also try to add a new (old) Specialist to the game, the Priest.
In the past i got some problems to get him working without any issues, it works well, but he brokes the view of the techtree.

Anyway we will do a lot of work this weekend, and in the comming week.
When all went well, we will release a improved version in one week.
 
Info on the text of pre-historic techs that needs updating. ("not" just means that it does not produce what it says it does.)
Tech Text Actual
Art Caves of Laqrox not
Cooking Cows and pigs food storage, salt
Domestification pigs truffles
Flintstones Flintstones
Hierachy great hall not
Hunting food storage not
Idols Totem not
Leadership Totem not
Numbers Ggantija Creation Creation maybe
Rituals Shaman hut Ritual Hutt
Scouting Council of the elders not
Shelter Shelter Lean-to-Shelter
Social Structures Council of the elders not
Tools Gobekli Wonderwerk
Tribal Warrior Warrior Savage
Warfare Savage Warrior
Wayfinding Cows and Pigs Angry Tree
Weaver Shelter, sheep Weaver, Linin

(numbers says it makes creation for there is no circle saying it is making creation. But I think it did allow creation in game. So it may be OK)
Sorry, I have nice pretty columns when I edit this, that crunch togeather when I click save.
 
Tempo of game
(Part of the game is about resource management. So having limits of resources is a normal part of the game. This comment just highlights the current state of some of these]
Some of these are interrelated.


(1) Food and population.
With the change in policies in the (2 Sep 14) version, food is harder to get. The building "food storage" now requires the tree of life, so can be build only in the capital. The new pre-historic policies have limited food choices. One of the few is humanity-(current placeholder 137) which makes 1 food per food storage, so it only makes one food in one city. As a result of these, the city populations are about HALF of what they were in the (26 Aug 14) version. Which does make some sense for the pre-historic period.


(2) Money
Money is hard to get in the late pre-historic. In my current game (except during golden ages) I was making negative money from turn 146 to turn 256, and dropped from 700 saved money to 300 save money. I had the same number of units, but their upkeep cost went from 19 gold / turn to 30 gold / turn. This was because the upkeep cost / turn goes up on units faster than the cities were growing to produce more money (see (1) above). This prevented producing any building that had a maintenance cost like (Council of the elder, Collector, Shaman’s Hut, Water Reservoir, and Ritual Hutt). That also means that no money to upgrade cavemen or fire eaters. Money only got better then other civs started sending caravans to my cities.


(3) Manpower
Manpower is hard to get in the early Ancient age. You get 1-2 manpower in the pre-historic age. If you use it to build one wonder, then you are out for a while. In the ancient age, you need manpower to build a worker or upgrade the labar units. You also need manpower any navel units (work boats, Galley, trireme), and the Rammbock in addition to most wonders. If you have one manpower to make one worker, then you can start to develop food and money resources to fix the limits of (1) and (2) above. The only source of manpower I see is from the polity Liberty-Citizenship but that takes about 70 turns while nothing is getting done. I recommend adding 1-2 manpower in the early ancient age.


Labar unit
I am not sure how to use it effectively. It seems to make a camper improvement but I don’t know what that does. I made one on a forest-truffle hex that needs a camp, but it did not seem to do anything. It changed the graphics of the hex but did not improve the truffles. I found an in-game note that it was going to produce a burst of production (like clearing a forest does) but I watched that city carefully and did not see anything happen when the camper was finished. The labar unit may be working fine and the issue may be with the camper improvement. [It seems that you can make the camper improvement over and over again on the same hex.]
 
@Bladesss
Thanks for the infos of the technology texts, i will update them.

*There is a minor bug with the Food Storage, it wasnt intendet to make a prerequest for the Tree of Live.
This was a result of copy and paste, my mistake, its already fixed.

* The improvement camp will not make resources workable, you will need the normal improvement for that.
But i think that i will change some settings for the camp, it will produce Manpower in the next update and give a better Gold and Production output.
Also will check why you can build it over and over again.

Will try to balance the Prehistorc Era a little bit better for Gold and Manpower.
 
The issue with the manpower was in the early ancient era, although I guess you could fix it in the pre-historic era and have it carry forward.
 
The issue with the manpower was in the early ancient era, although I guess you could fix it in the pre-historic era and have it carry forward.

So i added one Manpower for each Camp, changed some polices to generate more gold in that era.

In the spoiler you see the altered policies for Humanity.
Spoiler :
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP135_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]135[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]+2 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production and [ICON_GOLD] Gold in the [ICON_CAPITAL] Capitol.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP135">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]135[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP135_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>


<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP137_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]137[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]+1 [ICON_FOOD] Food in the [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Add yields +1 [ICON_GOLD] Gold to every Food Storage.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP137">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]137[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP137_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>


<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP138_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]138[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]+15% [ICON_STRENGTH] Strength when fighting Barbarians.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Build Palisades 50% faster.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP138">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]138[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP138_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>



<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP139_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]139[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]+1 [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness for each Menhir.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP139">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]139[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP139_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>


<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP140_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]140[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Add yields +2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture and [ICON_GOLD] Gold to the [ICON_CAPITOL]Capitol.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP140">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]140[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP140_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>


<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_CCTP141_HELP">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]141[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][NEWLINE]+1 [ICON_GOLD] Gold to every Camper and Tipi Improvement.</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_POLICY_NEWPOLICY_CCTP141">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]141[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_NEWPOLICY_CCTP141_TEXT">
<Text>[COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]upps[ENDCOLOR]</Text>
</Row>


Yeah i know upps, but it helps when we start to add the missing entries.....
 
Policies are now working correctly.
Added some new policies to the existing ones.
So that all era related policies are more or less balanced.

Iam also thinking about a new policy tree for espionage, that didnt would block any other tree.
Since all free spies are removed from all other policies due a bug, and we figured out why that bug appairs.
We could use this tree to improve the current spy system a lot.....
 
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