Cellular Automation

[sir_schwick]

Okay, this is another one of my abstractions that I would like others to fill in on. I hesitate to use the term 'paradigm' because it is starting to get cliche.

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When many of you read the title you were probably ready to cry 'SimCity!'. Well, it is basically the basis of how SimCity simulates changes and such on the map. However celullar automation is not contrary to TBS or strategy game ideals.

First, the Civ maps have always been terribly static and boring. Adding one road versus twenty does nothing to terrain, population, or anything else besides direct player actions. They are fixing the 'wahck-a-mole' pollution model so cellular automation can fix that as well.

Cellular automation has managed to make realistic patterns in SimCity maps without the player having to understand complex formulas. They understand that pollution spreads out from industrial zones for some distance at significant quantities. Traffic comes from high-density zones and zones need municipal coverage. Its a highly dynamic system that allows for intuitive principles to make sense.

Before I continue let me establish this. I AM NOT, repeat, I AM NOT saying we should adopt SimCity or start managing our cities in that fashion. What I am suggesting is that we take the idea of cellular automation and see in what context it could be applied to Civlization.

I have already seen many threads with ideas that could implemented with some form of cellular automation. Many of these deal with climate, pollution, biome distribution, etc. Some of them deal with disease, economies, culture, and populations as well.

What are your thoughts and ideas on how this concept could improve Civ? Links are always appreciated.

 

[sealman]

I'm a bit confused.

Are you talking about just graphic enhancements with the pollution spreading out over the countryside instead of just popping up in a square and waves lapping in the ocean? Or something more elaborate that would effect gameplay?

 

[sir_schwick]

You tell me. I want someone to take the basic idea of cellular automation and explain how a gameplay component woull utilize it. And yes, it would affect gameplay. HOwever since this is a fundamental departure from static maps, there is too much to list in any one post.

Just out of curiosity, should I explain what cellular automation in mechanical theory?

 

[sealman]

Just out of curiosity, should I explain what cellular automation in mechanical theory?

If it is not to complicated or long winded. My experiences is that many posters just skip longwinded posts (I admit I do it sometimes as well) and try to jump into a debate/dialouge without all the facts.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the term cellular automation was birds flying across the screen, flowing water, seeing movement on the roads, ect....

 

[sir_schwick]

It is actually amazingly simple, however I need to make a couple .gif's to communicate this effectively. As a primer though........

Each simulation cycle(turn for simplicity) all adjacent tiles calculate their effect on adjacent tiles. Conditions in adjacent tiles will affect each other simultaneously, leading to eventual equilibrium. High quantity in one tile will diffuse through other tiles to a certain effective distance. Also, since this is just an idea that quantities are interdependent, any number or complexity can be used to model most situations. All this will make more sense with the pictures.

 

[GoodGame]

My interpretation of Cellular Automata:

Basically a form of AI, using a repetitive, base unit as the 'Cell', that then 'automates' by behaving strictly by a set or rules (a matrix etc..). I believe a classic example is the game "LIFE" (Not the Milton Bradley game!).

I agree with you that crying Cellular Automata isn't the same as say making Civ a game where you manage a response to automated citizenry. It can be used to indirectly represent other things, like flow of pollution, like you say. The most brilliant use I've seen is in the Robin Hood game that came out of few years ago (not the Sierra one, but I think it's a german company). Basically they had multiple hierarchies of cell types (to represent ranks of soldiers within an army). There was a matrix by which the cells acted, mostly in response to the environment or witness actions of the game player; Some of the actions involved interacting with other cells in the army. It created a pretty smart AI that didn't map/pattern react in an absolutely set way, but by your actions (so you had enhanced replayability by attacking the puzzle in different ways. I'm exaggerating that it was brilliant, since most of the unit actions weren't 'deeply' clever, but they did put a lot of unique pressure--different each time).

The best use in CIV, I think would be to make individual AI cities,
cells. That might actually optimize the AI, as long as it didn't get trapped in infinitely repeated loops of action (between two choices). It might work as an alternate governor code (cooperative AI). The negative is that cooperative AI has to be indexed so the player can shut-off competition with the player's own master plan.

It might be interesting, but I'm not sure it'd be necessary, unless it sped up the AI's activity. I wonder if it could be applied to the actual game rules, to make them react simultaneously to the player's actions, to cut down on the background rules that occur at the end of the game turn (might speed up the end game turn lag as a kind of multi-threading).

 

[sir_schwick]

I like your thinking as well Good Game, but to save processor time and frustration, the simulation cycle would be each turn, or maybe a few cycles in the between turn time.

It could be used to represent natural and terrain systems(climate, pollution, food migrations, etc.) which improvements affect. THat would be the most back application of cellular automation in Civ. It would also make sense in terms of environmental impact based on techs. Early stuff would only radiate a few squares in affect, while the high quantity and concentration of industry in the IR could affect climates, pollution, water quality over time.

Using it also as a simulation tool for the AI could be interested, but I am no AI expert.

I would recommend finding a free version of "LIFE" and checking that out. It explains one kind of cellular automation. Another macroproject that used cellular automation is SimCity, but quantifying that would be much more complicated.

 

[gskyes]

The idea of cellular automation kind of makes me scratch my head. But the analogy to Sim City helped give me an idea of what it could be about. Plus, I wouldn't need to know how it works, just what it's effects are.

One way this would work is with pollution. If a city has an improvement that causes pollution, it would spread away from the city, causing negative effects in the area. Fresh water sources would be particularly affected. Pollution could even flow down rivers, and affect other citys nearby.

Another example would be religion or culture. These would start in a certain geographical location, like the capital, and spread out from there. Cities that were influenced enough would begin to generate their own influence, and the culture would spread further.

I hope I understood this topic correctly, please forgive me if I haven't.

 

[sir_schwick]

Basically, here is an additional idea to add to it. Terrain would now store values for this kind of stuff, making each tile in effect a 'cell'.

Now the 'water pollution' level in a 'cell' on a river would have greater impact on 'water pollution' down the river. Of course since cells only interact with adjacent cells, there is a transmission delay and transmission buffer that restricts distance based on quantity of change.

I hate to whore out another of my threads, but another novel application can be found in this thread. Using that idea maybe it will catch on with more people.

Also you are right that culture would now be stored in terrain and transmitted that way. It would be easy to program different resistances based on terrain. Another good application could be a decent climate system.