My biggest issue with the game currently is the map generation

[Riconatic]

I don't see any problem with legacy path objectives. They just gamify things you would normally do anyway, like building wonders, using resources and so on. And since they are totally skippable, I can't say they force you do anything.

Moreover, I see legacy paths as necessary mechanics in context of age reset - they allow keeping effect from things not carried over to the next age. For example, collecting codices would be useless near the age end, because they disappear anyway. But by achieving science legacy paths objectives you could produce some bonuses for the next age.

And in previous games the win objectives always stayed same. Same with this game. And what is better now during the game run there are much more objectives to try fullfil than previously. Nothing has worsened, only somewhat improved.

 

[Kyriakos]

Suit at Firaxis: "we need map generating algorithms, have the coder do it".
The coder: "I only like linear functions with slopes negatively inverse to each other".

 

[King of Prussia]

i think in the long run, if they add more ways to earn legacy points, it will help with the feeling of being forced to do the same thing over and over.

Cultural victory in civ6 was one of my favorites, due to the many ways you could earn tourism.

 

[stealth_nsk]

i think in the long run, if they add more ways to earn legacy points, it will help with the feeling of being forced to do the same thing over and over.

That's interesting idea, it was partially explored in Mongolia as civ unique ability, so Firaxis could add more civs with similar unique interactions.

I'm not sure about it being the core mechanics. It's pretty hard to balance - you're either required to use all of the ways to get points or you could cheat the mechanics by using all those ways.

Cultural victory in civ6 was one of my favorites, due to the many ways you could earn tourism.

I think you're quite an exception. Civ6 cultural victory is quite obscure in how tourism is calculated and you actually required to use all the ways to generate tourism to get it - you generally can't do it without rock bands, for example.

 

[Siptah]

That's interesting idea, it was partially explored in Mongolia as civ unique ability, so Firaxis could add more civs with similar unique interactions.

I'm not sure about it being the core mechanics. It's pretty hard to balance - you're either required to use all of the ways to get points or you could cheat the mechanics by using all those ways.


I think you're quite an exception. Civ6 cultural victory is quite obscure in how tourism is calculated and you actually required to use all the ways to generate tourism to get it - you generally can't do it without rock bands, for example.

I think multiple paths of the same type at the same time won‘t work well in 7. But there could be alternative paths that are selected by the player, randomly, or based on previously achieved legacy goals of all civs. E.g., culture path in exploration can be either about relics or about great writers (that you need to sponsor in competition with the other civs and build respective buildings for). But you‘ll know at civ selection which one it will be.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think multiple paths of the same type at the same time won‘t work well in 7. But there could be alternative paths that are selected by the player, randomly, or based on previously achieved legacy goals of all civs. E.g., culture path in exploration can be either about relics or about great writers (that you need to sponsor in competition with the other civs and build respective buildings for). But you‘ll know at civ selection which one it will be.

I really like the idea of this being civ-specific like with Mongolia. Civs are age-specific and could support those unique paths with their abilities.

Balancing this for all civs is pretty hard. In your example, exploration legacy path is the main reason for playing religion now (the second reason is military path, which works better with your own religion and only third one is about getting bonuses from the religion itself). So alternative path could just cut off the religion from play. In my view it's ok if some mechanics are absent from specific civs, making them unique, but possibility for mechanics to be unnecessary for everyone is a threat to balance.

 

[UWHabs]

That's interesting idea, it was partially explored in Mongolia as civ unique ability, so Firaxis could add more civs with similar unique interactions.

I'm not sure about it being the core mechanics. It's pretty hard to balance - you're either required to use all of the ways to get points or you could cheat the mechanics by using all those ways.


I think you're quite an exception. Civ6 cultural victory is quite obscure in how tourism is calculated and you actually required to use all the ways to generate tourism to get it - you generally can't do it without rock bands, for example.

I've definitely had games with cultural victory without Rock Bands, if you are going heavy in national parks or seaside resorts, for example. Or just mass buying every great artist that comes up.

But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing some alternate victory path option for some of them. Whether that just be alternate ways to produce works in the modern age and an increasing cap, or some fully alt way. Like I could see them simply add in a setup where each Opera House you build produces a "Great Work of Music" every 10 turns, and then the modern victory would be 20 total great works. So at least if you don't want to dig up the lands, you have an alt way to source them.

Similar, I wouldn't hate some alt ways to handle some of the religion and treasure fleets in the exploration. While I think you should be heavily penalized to not go for the new world, I wouldn't hate some options for people that don't involve that. Although even there, you have a few sneaky options (Songhai treasure fleets, or Mahajapit relics from their UQ).

 

[stealth_nsk]

I've definitely had games with cultural victory without Rock Bands, if you are going heavy in national parks or seaside resorts, for example. Or just mass buying every great artist that comes up.

But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing some alternate victory path option for some of them. Whether that just be alternate ways to produce works in the modern age and an increasing cap, or some fully alt way. Like I could see them simply add in a setup where each Opera House you build produces a "Great Work of Music" every 10 turns, and then the modern victory would be 20 total great works. So at least if you don't want to dig up the lands, you have an alt way to source them.

Similar, I wouldn't hate some alt ways to handle some of the religion and treasure fleets in the exploration. While I think you should be heavily penalized to not go for the new world, I wouldn't hate some options for people that don't involve that. Although even there, you have a few sneaky options (Songhai treasure fleets, or Mahajapit relics from their UQ).

Actually there's an alternative way of getting exploration legacy path, it's piracy. You need some significant number of ships and be at war with 2-3 neighbors, but totally possible.

And yes, Songhai, Mahajapit and Mongolia are good glimpses at potential future civ abilities.

 

[Siptah]

I really like the idea of this being civ-specific like with Mongolia. Civs are age-specific and could support those unique paths with their abilities.

Balancing this for all civs is pretty hard. In your example, exploration legacy path is the main reason for playing religion now (the second reason is military path, which works better with your own religion and only third one is about getting bonuses from the religion itself). So alternative path could just cut off the religion from play. In my view it's ok if some mechanics are absent from specific civs, making them unique, but possibility for mechanics to be unnecessary for everyone is a threat to balance.

Yeah, I can see the problem, and I would also like to have more civs with unique ways to acquire points.
However, sticking to my example, it doesn‘t necessarily invalidate religious play. Other alternative paths might require it instead. E.g., a science path that requires there are 20 science buildings in cities of your religion (but regardless of owner).

 

[King of Prussia]

That's interesting idea, it was partially explored in Mongolia as civ unique ability, so Firaxis could add more civs with similar unique interactions.

I'm not sure about it being the core mechanics. It's pretty hard to balance - you're either required to use all of the ways to get points or you could cheat the mechanics by using all those ways.


I think you're quite an exception. Civ6 cultural victory is quite obscure in how tourism is calculated and you actually required to use all the ways to generate tourism to get it - you generally can't do it without rock bands, for example.

i very rarely used rockbands because i hated their RNG. Their music playing the same thing 93023209 times was irritating. The later you started getting tourism, the longer it would take for you to overcome the AIs.

i liked the multitude of ways to get tourism, and make it bigger. social policies, wonders, techs on top of the other items you can make. It wasnt just spam buildings to get great works.

Civ 7 is a step above that, with various techs/civics that can give you relics and what not. Primarily tho, it revolves around sending missionaries abroad to try and trigger whatever condition you selected. In modern you are just spamming explorers and hoping for events to give you a few artifacts. Its missing something imo, compared to the other victory conditions.

 

[Leyrann]

For example, collecting codices would be useless near the age end, because they disappear anyway. But by achieving science legacy paths objectives you could produce some bonuses for the next age.

Honestly that's a bit of a poor example imo. The science and culture trees together contain 10 codices, plus you'll usually get one or two from events. As such, you'll get the golden age without really trying anyway.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Honestly that's a bit of a poor example imo. The science and culture trees together contain 10 codices, plus you'll usually get one or two from events. As such, you'll get the golden age without really trying anyway.

You need two things. First - go through all those trees, including some masteries. Second - have enough space to display those codices, which usually involves building a couple of academies (expensive building from late tech). I wouldn't call it achieving without trying.

 

[sonicmyst]

I hope map generation also allows at least diagonally or horizontally divided landmasses for homeland and distant lands.

For variety.

 

[Leyrann]

You need two things. First - go through all those trees, including some masteries. Second - have enough space to display those codices, which usually involves building a couple of academies (expensive building from late tech). I wouldn't call it achieving without trying.

Fair enough, I actually missed out on it in my current game.

I'm starting to wonder if in my first few games I had unusually good science (and maybe culture) and didn't realize it was unusual.