jack merchant
Internationalist
You know, every single one of the civs mentioned is fine by me 
How about you choose ?
How about you choose ?
CG7 - Diety Attempt!
- Thread starter cgannon64
- Start date
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I would prefer China over Persia, mainly for the timing of the GA - I doubt we'll be going to war with Immortals anyway, and a GA that early would probably be bad.
So, who else wants China?
So, who else wants China?
jack merchant
Internationalist
China is fine by me - Shillen mentioned earlier that China would be a good civ for a military win, so I think he'll be fine with this, too.
In which case, you can generate a start
Note that the timing of the GA does not have to correlate with the appearance of the UU - it's quite possible to get an early industrial GA with Persia and China (or nearly any other civ for that matter, though maybe not Egypt)
In which case, you can generate a start
Note that the timing of the GA does not have to correlate with the appearance of the UU - it's quite possible to get an early industrial GA with Persia and China (or nearly any other civ for that matter, though maybe not Egypt)
Aggie
Deity
I don't mind which one we pick. As long as we pick one 
CGannon, when you set up the game, I don't mind when you aim for a really good starting position. A lot of us have little to no experience in Deity. And JM's suggestion to play with one less AI civ sounds allright too!
CGannon, when you set up the game, I don't mind when you aim for a really good starting position. A lot of us have little to no experience in Deity. And JM's suggestion to play with one less AI civ sounds allright too!
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Originally posted by Aggie
I don't mind which one we pick. As long as we pick one
CGannon, when you set up the game, I don't mind when you aim for a really good starting position. A lot of us have little to no experience in Deity. And JM's suggestion to play with one less AI civ sounds allright too!
Are you suggesting that I try a few times before its a good start (I haven't made the save yet)?
Aggie
Deity
CG, indeed I do. Deity is so much harder than emperor, that we need a proper starting position.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
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Haveing shred emperor on a regular basis before stepping up, I know it is a MAJOR jump.
If some of you are deity newbies, then you really need a start with at least one food bonus to get your capitial growing faster.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I'll make the save as soon as I can tonight. Aggie, you're playing first, right? Or was it Jack...?
jack merchant
Internationalist
I'm first - if you can post the save right now, I can still play before I go to bed (ain't insomnia great ?)
Maybe you can update the first post to show the roster.
Maybe you can update the first post to show the roster.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Sorry about no save today guys. My brother has a 10-page paper he left for the last night and he was on the Civ3 computer all night.
Save DEFINETELY tomorrow.
Oh, and how fitting: I'm China in the UN and CHina in the SG.
Save DEFINETELY tomorrow.
Oh, and how fitting: I'm China in the UN and CHina in the SG.
jack merchant
Internationalist
You'll have to forgive me CG, but since I was up first, I concluded that there was no real reason not to start the game myself I wasn't sure whether we chose continents or pangaea, but then I decided that with one less AI civ, there was a real risk that on a continents map, civs on the other continent might become too strong. Since most of us are relatively new to deity, we need the deck stacked in our favour as much as possible. So I rolled out a medium-sized pangaea map, with the other conditions as mentioned.
This is our start:
A river, a cattle in sight and at least one bonus grassland in sight. What more could you ask for ?
4000 BC (1) I found on the starting spot to reveal two more cattle and a wine ! This is great - Beijing will be a monster settler factory. I order up a warrior for exploration. Our worker will first irrigate the cattle, then mine the bonus grassland as that will be done before Beijing can use the other cattle. We will want to found other towns in range to share the other cattle.
Pottery is ordered up at max science - 27 turns but that will improve as Beijing grows. A warrior is ordered up for exploration.
3750 BC (6) Beijing produces warrior, starts another. Note that I am not going to open the goody hut on the mountain - the odds of popping barbarians are far too high. We don't want our second citizen to be killed as soon as he is produced.
3700 BC (7) Luxes to 20% to keep Beijing happy.
3600 BC (9) Beijing produces warrior, starts another.
3450 BC (12) Another goody hut was discovered to the north, and a third one to the west. Since Beijing has just produced its third warrior, I open the one to the west as the warrior there can be reinforced by road. I don't open the one to the north - we need to keep our warriors alive as much as possible as it is far more important to get the early contacts than risking our scouts on a hut on the offchance that we get something useful for it. The hut is deserted anyway..
I decide to build a 4th warrior out of Beijing to explore east - this will put us over the unit support limit but the extra intelligence is well worth it IMO.
Luxes can go down to zero for one turn, next turn they will have to go up again.
3400 BC (13) Beijing at size 3 is now at +5food per turn with the second cattle. However, irrigating the second cattle will allow us to work the forest on the river for +5food at size 4. Also, a possible town NE of Beijing can share it later on without the worker having to go back and irrigating over a mine. So I decide to irrigate the second cattle.
Luxes go back to 20%.
An illustration for the possible MM - choices:
3350 BC (14) Beijing builds its fourth warrior, starts the Pyramids as a granary prebuild. Science dialed down as we now have to pay 1 gpt in unit support.
3200 BC (17) Luxes have to go to 30 % to keep Beijing happy.
Exploring..... our warrior up north survives a barb attack due to being on a mountain. We are on a broad peninsula and have not met anyone yet.
3000 BC (21) Beijing is now size 5. Pottery due in 1, I earn one gold by turning the slider down for a turn.
2950 BC (22) We learn pottery, I start bronze working at max. Granary due next turn.
2900 BC (23) Beijing completes the granary, starts a settler. MM Beijing to get growth in 4, settler in 4.
2850 BC (24) We meet the Koreans up north; they have alphabet and bronze working for our masonry and pottery. No trades are possible.
2800 BC (25) Our southern warrior arrives in the capital to provide MP and escort the settler when it's done.
I stopped here as the settler is due next turn and we have to decide where to put it. I'll post a picture of our surroundings in the next post so we can decide on a dotmap. The next player should probably take 15 turns, but that's up to you.
I am by and large satisfied with my turn, but I made 2 possible mistakes. Looking at our position on the minimap:
I should probably have sent our second warrior north-east instead of west and south. This might then have allowed us to dispense with the extra scouting warrior, the one that has cost us unit support early on. On the bright side though, we now have a better idea of where we may place our cities.
Also, I wasn't quite sure what to research after pottery - maybe we should have gone to min sci from there on out. However, we will need spears soon to protect our settlers, so I chose bronze working.
The save
I wasn't sure whether we chose continents or pangaea, but then I decided that with one less AI civ, there was a real risk that on a continents map, civs on the other continent might become too strong. Since most of us are relatively new to deity, we need the deck stacked in our favour as much as possible. So I rolled out a medium-sized pangaea map, with the other conditions as mentioned.This is our start:
A river, a cattle in sight and at least one bonus grassland in sight. What more could you ask for ?
4000 BC (1) I found on the starting spot to reveal two more cattle and a wine ! This is great - Beijing will be a monster settler factory. I order up a warrior for exploration. Our worker will first irrigate the cattle, then mine the bonus grassland as that will be done before Beijing can use the other cattle. We will want to found other towns in range to share the other cattle.
Pottery is ordered up at max science - 27 turns but that will improve as Beijing grows. A warrior is ordered up for exploration.
3750 BC (6) Beijing produces warrior, starts another. Note that I am not going to open the goody hut on the mountain - the odds of popping barbarians are far too high. We don't want our second citizen to be killed as soon as he is produced.
3700 BC (7) Luxes to 20% to keep Beijing happy.
3600 BC (9) Beijing produces warrior, starts another.
3450 BC (12) Another goody hut was discovered to the north, and a third one to the west. Since Beijing has just produced its third warrior, I open the one to the west as the warrior there can be reinforced by road. I don't open the one to the north - we need to keep our warriors alive as much as possible as it is far more important to get the early contacts than risking our scouts on a hut on the offchance that we get something useful for it. The hut is deserted anyway..
I decide to build a 4th warrior out of Beijing to explore east - this will put us over the unit support limit but the extra intelligence is well worth it IMO.
Luxes can go down to zero for one turn, next turn they will have to go up again.
3400 BC (13) Beijing at size 3 is now at +5food per turn with the second cattle. However, irrigating the second cattle will allow us to work the forest on the river for +5food at size 4. Also, a possible town NE of Beijing can share it later on without the worker having to go back and irrigating over a mine. So I decide to irrigate the second cattle.
Luxes go back to 20%.
An illustration for the possible MM - choices:
3350 BC (14) Beijing builds its fourth warrior, starts the Pyramids as a granary prebuild. Science dialed down as we now have to pay 1 gpt in unit support.
3200 BC (17) Luxes have to go to 30 % to keep Beijing happy.
Exploring..... our warrior up north survives a barb attack due to being on a mountain. We are on a broad peninsula and have not met anyone yet.
3000 BC (21) Beijing is now size 5. Pottery due in 1, I earn one gold by turning the slider down for a turn.
2950 BC (22) We learn pottery, I start bronze working at max. Granary due next turn.
2900 BC (23) Beijing completes the granary, starts a settler. MM Beijing to get growth in 4, settler in 4.
2850 BC (24) We meet the Koreans up north; they have alphabet and bronze working for our masonry and pottery. No trades are possible.
2800 BC (25) Our southern warrior arrives in the capital to provide MP and escort the settler when it's done.
I stopped here as the settler is due next turn and we have to decide where to put it. I'll post a picture of our surroundings in the next post so we can decide on a dotmap. The next player should probably take 15 turns, but that's up to you.
I am by and large satisfied with my turn, but I made 2 possible mistakes. Looking at our position on the minimap:
I should probably have sent our second warrior north-east instead of west and south. This might then have allowed us to dispense with the extra scouting warrior, the one that has cost us unit support early on. On the bright side though, we now have a better idea of where we may place our cities.
Also, I wasn't quite sure what to research after pottery - maybe we should have gone to min sci from there on out. However, we will need spears soon to protect our settlers, so I chose bronze working.
The save
jack merchant
Internationalist
Here's a picture of the surroundings (I'll get to work on a dotmap later):
Note the fish to the south that was half cut off.
Note the fish to the south that was half cut off.
[Some hopefully helpful hints from a lurker]
As a general rule, it is better in Deity PTW to protect your settlers with Archers scouting ahead on the offensive than with spearmen protecting them. Barbarians in PTW are crazy in that they are unwilling to impale themselves on your spears (imagine that), so if you do not have any archers around to take them out (and of course you won't want to attack with a spearman), they can run amuk around your capital. Once you get Beijing surrounded by a few cities, however, the barbarians might harass your outer cities a bit, but it won't bother your capital too much. Not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but I guess just to warn you not to invest too many shields in spearmen who might not get to be used. Building roads to your next city sites will also help as you can found before the barbs can threaten your settler.
As a general rule, it is better in Deity PTW to protect your settlers with Archers scouting ahead on the offensive than with spearmen protecting them. Barbarians in PTW are crazy in that they are unwilling to impale themselves on your spears (imagine that), so if you do not have any archers around to take them out (and of course you won't want to attack with a spearman), they can run amuk around your capital. Once you get Beijing surrounded by a few cities, however, the barbarians might harass your outer cities a bit, but it won't bother your capital too much. Not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but I guess just to warn you not to invest too many shields in spearmen who might not get to be used. Building roads to your next city sites will also help as you can found before the barbs can threaten your settler.
jack merchant
Internationalist
You are correct of course - fortunately, we are militaristic so we have warrior code. We only have a warrior to protect our first settler, but I think our second city can start producing archers for later escorts.
I did a dotmap; Red dot should probably be the first priority. I considered putting it on a hill but I think it needs the cattle in immediate range to grow. Lightblue and orange might be too far out already, so I didn't place any dots above those. However, I think we can try to get those first and then backfill our territory with the other dots. Comments are, as always, welcome.
I did a dotmap; Red dot should probably be the first priority. I considered putting it on a hill but I think it needs the cattle in immediate range to grow. Lightblue and orange might be too far out already, so I didn't place any dots above those. However, I think we can try to get those first and then backfill our territory with the other dots. Comments are, as always, welcome.
Aggie
Deity
This is what I meant with a great starting position. Are you also OK with it CG?
Jack, others...do we have any pointers on how to proceed now? Constant archer (warrior)/settler build in Beijng? Or settlers in Beijng and archer (warriors) in the 2nd city? Or another option.
I agree with first getting to red and grabbing the orange and light blue dots sooner rather than later.
Jack, others...do we have any pointers on how to proceed now? Constant archer (warrior)/settler build in Beijng? Or settlers in Beijng and archer (warriors) in the 2nd city? Or another option.
I agree with first getting to red and grabbing the orange and light blue dots sooner rather than later.
jack merchant
Internationalist
I suspect Beijing itself will have to build the escort for the next settler. The only problem is it must not reach size 7, as IIRC that will wipe out the food stored. However, I think it can be MM'd at size 4 for shields to always get settlers before growth to size 7.
We should calculate how quickly Beijing can build settlers from size-4 onwards. I think with the current setup, it must always be MM'd when growing from size 4 to size 6.
In the light of Speaker's comments and the setup of the dotmap, I should have sent the worker to build a road in the direction of red dot rather than to the southern cattle as that one doesn't have to be used just yet and we'll want to irrigate the cattle next to red dot to get it up to speed. I don't know whether we have the time to build a barracks in red dot first (shouldn't take too long with our militaristic attribute) or if we can send regular archers to deal with any barb threat that may arise.
As soon as red dot is up to speed and producing military, I think Beijing should strictly build workers and settlers from there on out.
We should calculate how quickly Beijing can build settlers from size-4 onwards. I think with the current setup, it must always be MM'd when growing from size 4 to size 6.
In the light of Speaker's comments and the setup of the dotmap, I should have sent the worker to build a road in the direction of red dot rather than to the southern cattle as that one doesn't have to be used just yet and we'll want to irrigate the cattle next to red dot to get it up to speed. I don't know whether we have the time to build a barracks in red dot first (shouldn't take too long with our militaristic attribute) or if we can send regular archers to deal with any barb threat that may arise.
As soon as red dot is up to speed and producing military, I think Beijing should strictly build workers and settlers from there on out.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I was going to make the save now, Jack, but I can't deny our wonderful start. I will play now - should I play 20, the usual?
About the dotmap: It is a good setup, but your order in building confuses me a little. I think Red is the definite second city, but I think Orange and Light Blue are too far off, IMO, and too far to walk. I was thinking White could be a good third city. The rest don't really matter to me, but I think Orange and Blue will be little more than space-takes for a long time...
EDIT: Not playing until we decide on the dotmap. You guys may be right, and this may be a good tactic on Diety, but its not usually my style, so I need a little convincing.
About the dotmap: It is a good setup, but your order in building confuses me a little. I think Red is the definite second city, but I think Orange and Light Blue are too far off, IMO, and too far to walk. I was thinking White could be a good third city. The rest don't really matter to me, but I think Orange and Blue will be little more than space-takes for a long time...
EDIT: Not playing until we decide on the dotmap. You guys may be right, and this may be a good tactic on Diety, but its not usually my style, so I need a little convincing.
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