CG7 - Diety Attempt!

Ok let's switch the discussion to trying to get this game on track, rather than dwelling on the past.

Jack mentioned moving the settler to white dot instead of black to get the wines. I'm not so sure about this so I'll try to analyze that. The settler is 1 tile from black dot and 4 tiles from white dot. There's also a barb camp next to black dot that could be dispersed with the settler, but then the warrior would have to fend off the barb or it would get ransacked. If we settle black dot next we probably wouldn't be able to do white dot right after, because we'd have to put priority on red dot and claiming the silks before the Koreans. So that would delay wine hookup for 2 more cities.

With our really weak military I think we need to put priority on dispersing that barb camp, we'd also get 25g for that. So I suggest founding black dot, then going for red dot. I'm also unsure why we have 2 warriors fortified in Shanghai. One of them should head back down to Beijing for mp/protection.

Techs -We can't research any techs the AI doesn't already have, so a min science gambit would be pointless right now. So our options are either turning science off and trying to buy techs, or researching at max and hoping to get to a tech that the AI doesn't have. If we chose the second choice I'd suggest mysticism-poly. Putting science up to 70% gives mysticism in 19, while alphabet is 27. That's why I go for poly over math. If we went with the first choice we could buy mysticism or alphabet and then turn research on for math or poly. Of course either of these strategies could be blown if the AI already has math or poly.

edit: Crap I forgot about the barb threatening Beijing. We have a couple options of dealing with him as well. 1) We can send our warrior back to defend Beijing (we'd have to move the worker and settler back too). There's a chance the barb would kill our warrior. The other option is to let the barb ransack Beijing. It could kill citizens, take money, or sabotage production on our spearman. I think our best option is to just let him ransack Beijing.

About escorts, I'm changing my mind. We can build 2 warriors for the price of an archer. I think I'd rather have 2 warriors than a single archer. On the other hand, a city that produces 7-9 spt would build an archer every 3, but a warrior every 2. So I guess it depends on the city whether to build archers or warriors.
 
I didn't know the settler was only one square away from black dot - I had concluded from the report that it had gone only one tile south from the capital in the direction of black dot, which would mean no turns would be wasted moving it to white dot instead.

As it is, we should found on black dot for the reasons you mentioned.

Sciencewise, the AIs are far more likely to pop mysticism out from a hut than maths as it's cheaper. In which case, we should turn science off to get alphabet, then go for the min sci on maths or just leave science off and buy everything. I don't think our economy is strong enough to run max science on anything just yet and expect to get it first, but we'll have to see how it pans out once we acquire alphabet.
 
Pre-turn: Beijing MM-ed to grow faster. Warrior from Shangai sent to undefended Beijng. Shangai changed to worker.

Turn 1 (2150 BC) Going south with the settler/warrior, I notice that the barb camp has a warrior and a horseman. Our undefended worker will be killed. :cry:

IT: A barbarian kills a citizen from Beijing. The barbarian horseman kills our worker.

Turn 2 (2110 BC) I have no choice but to attack that horseman with our warrior. The warrior wins. But the settler has to wait with building the city.

Turn 3 (2070 BC) Beijing: spear->settler

Turn 4 (2030 BC) Canton founded. Starts warrior. We buy alphabet from Babylon for 60 gold and 2gpt. Start Math on 10% science, since it's not known yet. We can't get it faster.

IT: Our warrior in Canton wins from the barbarian released from the camp. The Zulu complete the Pyramids.

Turn 5 (1990 BC) Shanghai: worker->granary. The AI learned mathematics. I stop research. :(

Turn 6 (1950 BC) :sleep:

Turn 7 (1910 BC) Beijing: settler-> settler.
A warrior travelling to Beijing tries to take out a barb camp and fails.
This is the sign to have a spear join the settler. Our warrior from Canton goes to now undefended Beijing.

Turn 8 (1870 BC) Canton: warrior->worker.

IT: Now a barb approaches from the east to Beijing.

Turn 9 (1830 BC) :sleep:

IT: The barb goes north, to Korea.

Turn 10 (1790 BC) :sleep:

Turn 11 (1750 BC) Beijing: settler->warrior. Nanking founded at red dot. Starts warrior.

Turn 12 (1725 BC) :sleep:

Turn 13 (1700 BC) Beijing: warrior->settler. Canton: worker->warrior. Settler/warrior go to yellow dot.

Turn 14 (1675 BC) A goody hut gives us three barbs. :(

IT: A brave warrior kills one barb and the other two retreat. The Zulu establish an embassy at Beijing.

Turn 15 (1650 BC) Xjinian founded at yellow dot. Starts warrior.

The next player: We can do some trading. The Celts don't have mathematics and me make 9 gpt.
I brought two exploring wariors back to our empire. To be used for settler escort.
Corrupt Shangai builds granary. Feel free to switch.

1650 BC
 
Good work Aggie. Those Barbs sure are annoying this game...what level did you set them on?

Oh, and one thing that wasn't clear - where is Canton? Black Dot?
 
Originally posted by Shillen
Also, going between 7 and 5 with a granary is very bad because when you reach size 7 your granary empties. So if you have a granary you have to be careful not to reach size 7 ever, that includes building a settler the same turn as hitting size 7.

Sorry for butting in here but I think this needs some clarification.
The above statement is incorrect.
In Sirp's Monarch TDG we had Athens fluctuating between size 5 and 6 while cranking a settler every four turns. The settler would be built on the turn it grew to size 7 and the granary was full when it dropped back to size 5.
Of course if it stays at size 7 for even one turn......yeah, you will lose the food.
I just wanted to clarify this because that is a big difference. (full granary vs. empty)

I now return you to your regularly scheduled AI :spank:

Edit: I just went back to a old save of that game and though I was wrong on the particulars of the situation (Athens wasn't that strong) my statement about the granary is correct. I just timed a settler build to coincide with growth to size 7 and when it dropped to size 5 the granary was full.
 
Thanks for the clarification Matt !

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the barbs are at roaming. But they're sure hurting us :cry:

Good luck Shillen !
 
Thanks for the correction Matt. I usually avoid that situation anyway because you end up having to keep lux too high. But it's good to know because I have been in situations where I made sure I produced the settler before growth, and it would have been better not to.

As for the barb levels, they usually seem worse on deity for 2 reasons. The obvious one is that we get no attack bonus against them, but the not-so-obvious is since the AI is expanding faster than we are, we have more land covered by the fog of war near us. That means the majority of the barb camps will spawn near our cities. Losing that settler didn't help this either. And two workers now. :/

I got it after I study it for a while.
 
Well I made a stupid mistake. I started out playing v1.21. It wasn't until turn 14 that I realized it. I tried replaying it the same way and it came out mostly the same, but some things came out different. In my second game I was unable to get horseback riding since the celts learned code of laws with everyone else. All the barb stuff came out differently. I had to divert my first settler to blue dot instead of green dot because of barbs. And lastly, a big world war broke out. There were no war messages in the first one. Sorry about that guys. :/

Good news is we're only down horseback riding and map making to all civ's, and construction to some civ's. We're 32 turns from republic, we have horses and iron, 8 cities with another settler on the way for a 9th. Some of our gpt deals should run out in 5 turns. Here's the timeline.

Preturn: Check the table. Everyone has all 5 techs we can research except the celts don’t have math. Our map is still valuable as well. I trade wm, 3gpt, and 41g to Russia for math. Trade math and 2gpt to Celts for Writing. All AI’s have philosophy, Arabia and Celts are down map making. I sell our wm around before Russia does. Zulu (40g), Babylon (29g), Korea (2g+tm). Research set to currency at 10% (doubt we’ll get it but it’s worth a shot). Warrior moved out of Xinjian to get barb camp before it spews horses.

IT: Korea founds a city NW of Shanghai.

1625 BC (1): Beijing settler->worker. Nanking warrior->warrior. Xinjian warrior attacks barb camp and loses. Sell our wm to everyone again.

IT: Barb warrior near Nanking attacks our warrior on a hill and wins. :( Horseman moves next to our settler/warrior.

1600 BC (2): Retreat warrior/settler back into Beijing. World map trading.

1575 BC (3): Beijing worker->worker. Canton warrior->warrior. Our warrior attacks barb horseman and loses. Settler sent to SW instead. Warrior sent to deal with barbs to east.

1550 BC (4): Our warrior attacks barb horseman and wins. Our warrior attacks the other barb horseman and also wins. Arabia and Celts both have map making now but no money to give us for our wm.

1525 BC (5): Xinjian warrior-> warrior. Beijing worker->settler. Warrior attacks barb camp by Xinjian and wins, horseman remains. Chengdu founded to SW, set to warrior. Zulu, Korea, Russia, and Celts have Code of Laws now.

1500 BC (6): Beijing expands grabbing wines. Nanking warrior->warrior. Two regular warriors attack barb camp killing one horseman, second one has 1hp left.

IT: Celts build the Colossus.

1475 BC (7): : Trade 10gpt +33g to Russia for code of laws. Trade code of laws and 24g to Korea for the wheel and iron working. Trade code of laws and 26g to Arabia for Philosophy and mysticism. We’re down map making and horseback riding to everyone now. But we’re at 22 gold and running an 8 gpt defecit. As long as we keep selling world map each turn we should do alright. Currency is due in 33, but we can research republic now, so I switch to republic in 40. Even if we don’t get it before the AI at least we won’t have to buy it, it’s usually expensive. We have horses SE of Beijing and South of Nanking, iron SW of Beijing. :)

IT: Barb warrior attacks our warrior and loses.

1450 BC (8): Canton warrior->warrior. Hire tax collector in Shanghai. It’s corrupt because it doesn’t have a road, not worth increasing lux. We attack barb camp and win getting 25g.

1425 BC (9): Beijing settler->settler.

IT: Zululand and Babylon sign alliance against Russia. Zulu declares war on Russia.

1400 BC (10): Xinjian warrior->barracks. Chengdu warrior->worker.

1375 BC (11): Wines connected. Canton switched to barracks. Nanking warrior->worker.

1350 BC (12): Nothing much.

1325 BC (13): Beijing settler->settler. Shanghai switched from granary to temple. It’s already growing too fast and we can’t afford to lose any cities to flips. Warrior attacks barb camp and loses, second warrior takes the camp and 25g.

1300 BC (14): Hangchow founded to NW on flood plains (wanted to get it before the AI). Zulu, Arabia, and Russia learn construction.

IT: Arabia demands 23g, we give in of course. Arabia and Zululand sign military alliance against Russia.

1275 BC (15): Chengdu worker->barracks. Tientsin founded on white dot. Set to barracks.

The save.

edit: Looks like Arabia learned Polytheism on the last turn and traded it to Zulus in the MA deal.
 
Good work Shillen. :D I don't have much to say, I'm gonna check out the save now...

EDIT: Looking at the map gave me hope for this game. We seem to have carved out a nice territory for ourselves, owning our little peninsula. I think once we fill it out and get it all irrigated, mined and roaded, we have a chance to contend with the rest. I'd suggest a Middle Ages war with Korea, but that's usually on Emperor not Diety...;)
 
Excellent work, Shillen !

We'll be able to build the FP with our current landgrab, and getting both iron and horses is a great stroke of luck. The AIs better watch out when we get chivalry - they'll never see us coming !

On deity, world wars are nearly always good news - slows down the tech pace, makes workers available, generally distracts the AI from building useful things like libraries and temples - good show :D
 
I think it might even be a good idea to take that Korean town near the silks with horsemen/swordsmen. If we can hold it long enough to make peace that would be a major boost. We'd have an extra silk to trade and another city that will be near our FP.

Let's hope we get Republic first. If we do we'll be so set on techs.

There were tons of workers available, I just didn't have any cash to buy them.

I'm not sure if I prefer my first or second run better. In the first run I got horseback riding, so we were one less tech behind. I also had more cash, Canton had a barracks already, and Nanking built a worker which irrigated and roaded the cattle already. In the second game I built a lot more warriors because the barbs were more trouble, and we have more warriors still alive too. The world war is good, but I feel bad because it didn't happen in the first run.
 
Great playing Shillen!

The fact that we are close in tech is very good news. I agree that we might have to think about attacking the Korean silk city early.

I agree on world war being good news. Only let's be careful not to be drawn into that.

Borealis is up now? She also is up in Hot3 and I believe a couple of other SG's as well. So I guess we have to wait a bit.
 
Originally posted by Aggie
I agree on world war being good news. Only let's be careful not to be drawn into that.

That's the risk of fighting Korea, I'm afraid. We have to make it a 1 on 1 war, no one else involved...
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
That's the risk of fighting Korea, I'm afraid. We have to make it a 1 on 1 war, no one else involved...

I don't think it will be a problem. Hell, Russia might even give us a tech to ally against Korea, since they're getting triple-teamed at the moment. Korea is not a very big civ. It looks like Russia razed one of their cities already and they only have like 7 left or something. I don't think they'd have much to offer the other civ's to get them to ally against us.
 
Just a heads-up to the team that I won't be able to play until late on Sunday or Monday morning at the earliest. Feel free to skip or swap my turn until then (I will be able to access the forums before then).
 
Originally posted by jack merchant
Just a heads-up to the team that I won't be able to play until late on Sunday or Monday morning at the earliest. Feel free to skip or swap my turn until then (I will be able to access the forums before then).

Alright Jack. You're on deck, right?

Borealis is running out of time...

EDIT: Borealis IS out of time; she (Borealis is a girl, right?) has had 27 hours. Jack, can you play your turn before you leave?

ANOTHER EDIT: Hmm...looks like Jack is gone. That makes me up - I'll play my turn when I wake up more. :) (Vacataion rules! :yeah: )
 
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