Challenge #8: Super Size Me!

[patagonia]

This seems to support ShannonCT's claim that the choices you need to make in order to get Biology hold back growth enough that the overall net gain is minimal. Although I think you're the current leader, ShannonCT got 116 earlier with the note, "I got nowhere near Biology." Biology clearly helped your late growth, but running all those specialists must have hurt during the time leading up to its discovery.

I think what hurt growth more was not having enough workers early enough, and the AI not discovering Feudalism until very near the end meaning that it took too long to get jungle cleared and farms built. I think it was 1180AD by the time I was finished with that, which was definitely too late. The farming project at Timbuktu had to be left quite late (due to needing to research Drama after Biology) because of research, but Osaka, Kyoto (and to a lesser extent York and Djenne) suffered simply due to a lack of manpower, which is definitely an area where major improvement's possible. A few more workers and a few less axes could have made a big difference in the long run, especially as they could have been built in the period while Timbuktu was cottaged up for research purposes.

 

[oyzar]

I think the thing left to determine is if you should go for the english or the german first. Big advantage of going for the english is that you can take out toku as well. Though then you wont get the awesome berlin. Cause of some lucky randomisation i actually didnt lose a single axe taking the german last time i tried so i could have done it with 2 axes which mean i built 3 too many before starting on the first setler. Or those 3 could have been sent to take york... I think with some tweaking to not lose combat rounds it is possible to eliminate both the english and the german before they have built 3 cities between them and then either take toku or go 100% builder to beeline for biology and get it before 1000 AD which would prolly be able to leave you with a avg size of 30ish or something ridic. Ofc that require and awful lot of mirco which i know i dont have the patience for.

 

[DaveMcW]

3360BC: Animal Husbandry
2800BC: Pottery (cottage spam my capital)
1000BC: Civil Service (oracle)
880AD: Scientific Method (2x scientists lightbulb)
940AD: Biology (liberalism)

My city placement was far from optimal. I didn't start conquering until I had maces, so I didn't have time to take on both toku and freddie.

 

[carl corey]

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing: it'd be interesting but not game breaking. Of course, as soon as we agree on this someone will come and post a 900AD date for Biology.

Heh, I did say it, didn't I?

Good work, Dave, with reaching that early Biology!

 

[cabert]

3360BC: Animal Husbandry
2800BC: Pottery (cottage spam my capital)
1000BC: Civil Service (oracle)
880AD: Scientific Method (2x scientists lightbulb)
940AD: Biology (liberalism)

My city placement was far from optimal. I didn't start conquering until I had maces, so I didn't have time to take on both toku and freddie.

Same question as before, is this a basically won game or a screwed for the challenge one?

 

[patagonia]

Same question as before, is this a basically won game or a screwed for the challenge one?

Any game in which you slingshot Biology is won.

You've already got grenadiers and are one tech away from cannons whilst the AI barely has longbows. Add to that the fact that running caste system/representation gives you a massive research edge with all the scientists that you can support and pretty much any victory condition is possible. I only had 6 cities in my game (one of which was totally undeveloped) and already had enough population to be at the domination limit.

 

[oyzar]

I just realized how ridicoulous easy Prince is... Keeping techlead while taking control of 3 cities by 0 AD is pretty ridicoulous. Now i only wish we were organized so i could get out those damn courthouses faster. conquering the german with 3 axes and the english with 5(all orginal 3 survived! though one stayed in berlin) which built a city that i let grow to size 2 right before i decleared. CRIII axemen are sooo good.

 

[uberfish]

First run, using oracle-CS into axe rush against England followed up with maces against Germany then Japan late to claim a couple resources. Prince AIs are horribly weak. I didn't bother with biology, instead focusing on hitting Guilds then using culture slider and theatres to counter unhappiness. I only built 1 cottage.

Berlin 26
York 25
London 24
Djenne 23
Timbuktu 23

= 121

I made a mistake here as there were 4 tiles overlapped between York and Djenne costing me a total of 12 food. If I have more time I'll try and beat the biologists as I think there's definite room for improvement.

 

[oyzar]

Berlin 30
Timbuktu 28
Djenne 27
York 25
Kumbi Saleh 25(this could have been way bigger if i had focused some more)
for a total of 135
I also have London at 24(guess any site without max land is kinda bad)

Spoiler :

This was fun. And i actually learned alot. Took out german and the english in rapid succesion shortly followed by a couple of cities form toku. All with axemen! (ok i did get 1 catapult to take out kyoto, though i prolly should have whipped a couple more before swiching into caste system). I cottaged up the capital and farmed everything esle. Thx for the tips of not having GL in Timbuktu cause putting it in Berlin along with heroic epic(i had confucanism shrine there too which wasnt as hot...). I got 1 prophet that i setled and 1 artist that i used to get drama. Only thing of the techpath to biology i selfteched was Alphabet(which did get me fishing, masonry, sailing, ironworking, monarchy, currency(took soo long), calendar(warspoils from toku) and the compleetly useless theology and music after i was done teching) polyethism and literature. Berlin was a real gpp farm most of the game though i did get a prophet from timbuktu(for the shrine) and a lategame GS from York. I poped paper, some of education, some of printing press, some of chemenstry and whole of scientific method from GS(that makes 6 GS for a total of 9 great people). A nice trick i found for having grocers for the 5 or so turns you have guilds is to chop trees around the cities that are going to get them while building research since the coped hammers then wont get used until you start building something again. Techpath was Bronzeworking hunting animal husbandry agriculture pottery(gotta get up those cottages) mysticism meditation priesthood writing COL(pop CS) Alphabet Math construction Polyethism Literature philo metalcasting machinery (pop paper and some of education from GS) Printing press(mostly bulbed) gunpowder chemistry(mostly bulbed) Scientific method(totaly bulbed 1 turn before i got liberalism). Getting out more workers realy help. That said i feel i didnt pick the correct cities soon enough(i have a 24 city and multiple 15 cities). There is room for improvement. Mostly in the midgame. I might also have overexpanded as i had all cities built before 0 AD. I built pantheon too somewhere in there(in timbuktu). I checked out DaveMcW's game to find his city placement and get some ideas. With early waring you dont get as fast biology it seems but i still got bigger cities? Better sites maybe? Or just plain more workers than him. I never got to the pyramids which would have been huge. If you manage to take the pyramides from japan(assuming they build them, in my game it was isabella that did.) you could speed up biology subsentially and seeing as none of the japanese cities are in the final 5 i prolly should have waited a bit before taking on toku(ie get more cats). My early game was superb my midgame was decent and the lategame is pretty straight forward(though i still managed to mess it up a bit ofc).

 

[ShannonCT]

Berlin 30
Timbuktu 28
Djenne 27
York 25
Kumbi Saleh 25(this could have been way bigger if i had focused some more)
for a total of 135
I also have London at 24(guess any site without max land is kinda bad)

Nice score. Do you remember what year you got Biology? I think that score will be nigh impossible to beat without going for Bio.

 

[oyzar]

1000 AD exactly.

 

[uberfish]

That's impressive Oyzar, I am surprised you could do so much conquering and still hit bio early. Size 30 is just sick. I don't think I can beat that without bio, most city sites will stall out around 25.

 

[carl corey]

I updated the second post of this thread to include the scoreboard: here you go.

 

[oyzar]

the reason i could do so much conquering and still hit bio was i basically forgo having def in my cities before the happines became an issue. There was one turn i had a skirmisher against an upgraded charior and had like 44% chace or something and would have had to swich out of caste system if it failed to get def. My reseearch crashed REALY hard at one point takming like 16 turns to research philosophy. Then i got Berlin online and it practically researched the techthree alone with GL + running 6+ scientists most of the game. Timbuktu is ofc a a tech monster too with 3 furs and 3 cottagest and still nice production(basically it provided income to suport the maintainance of the rest i think). Also after you get currency(even though everyone were anoyed catherine were willing to sell it to me aftger i bought 100 gc off her 2*) You just take all gc everyone have and just max out the tech slider. Ofc i think i have never done so much mircomanaging in my whole life. Why do the AI like priests so much?! Scientists ftw!

 

[lilnev]

Ugh. Well I was playing a many-city cottage heavy game. I made it to about 900 AD and then knocked over my Gatorade, spilling it into my monitor. Oops, no more monitor. Still, I think I wasn't going to reach Biology. City maintainence was draining too much from my research, and I wasn't popping any great people. I took out Fred even earlier this time (1800 BC?), including stealing his first settler. Then moved on Toku, then Vicky. And felt like I was too late there. Maybe only two AIs should be killed?

Anyway, I'm off to NY for Thanksgiving, so I guess it's no (official) entry from me this time. Good luck to y'all.

peace,
lilnev

 

[oyzar]

Check the killdates for fred in my game. I took out viky after that. I too killed his first setler. Gotta have those workers. Seriously in this game you pretty much cant get enough workers.

 

[DaveMcW]

Wow, this rush-Fred strategy is great. Vikky and Toku both survived, I just razed a couple cities from each to make room for my cities.

I built 5 cottages in my capital and got Biology in 860 AD. I used one GS for an academy and 4 more to lightbulb techs.

 

[patagonia]

Very impressive!

 

[cabert]

I knew there was room for a good "growth" challenge.
the 150 bar is broken, is there still room for improvement???

DaveMcW.

A 9th century biology rush is going to be a new standard

 

[oyzar]

Congratz DaveMcW. I knew there were better players than me out there able to take full advantage of at least some of my general strategy even if it was jsut a modification of illnevs and your own strategy in the first place. After having london not even among top 5 i can see why you dont bother with vicky at all. Nice one. Also most of tokus cities are of not too much use though i could have removed some of his culture a bit better. I bet you didnt get as unlucky as me and poped artists and prophets though. That was quite an impressive biology date. About all your cities are bigger than mine... I pretty much knew i had overexpanded when the slider touched 30 but w/e. It is just a game and it was indeed fun. This was more fun than hatty challenge imo. Almost as fun as ironman. Hard to get alot of replayability without a bit warmongering. No godyhuts did make for quite a bit different game than i am used to. This have improved my general game imensly.