[BTS] Challenge XX - call for suggestions

[Noble Zarkon]

With the imminent launch of Buffy 005 we are preparing for the 20th instalment of the popular Challenge Series.

The last two have been on the theme of the Fall of the Inca, and has been successful in gradually reducing the number of #1 slots held by Huayna Capac to levels last seen back in 2007. This Series will be on a related theme and is called "Rise of the English", as Incan dominance has started to recede the English civilization has emerged as their number one contender as shown in this graph.

Most of these entries belong to Elizabeth (FIN & PHI) with Victoria (FIN & IMP) only holding 11 records and Churchill (CHA & PRO) holding 3 (the lowest of all leaders). It's not hard to find games where Liz would be competitive but more of a challenge for the other two.

So suggestions welcome - if the nominated game is currently held by the Incans then that's a double bonus! You can use this table to help with looking if you want.

The HOF staff look forward to hearing your suggestions.

 

[Tonny]

I've found 2 incan games that hold a double spot in the tables

1. immortal, tiny, normal, space colony at 1640AD and a score of 273161 points
2. deity, small, quick, domination at 1440AD and a score of 246647 points

 

[Tonny]

I looked further in the tables and found several more games which can be beaten.
My favourites are:
1. prince, standard, normal, cultural (1330AD)
2. emperor, small, epic, conquest (2400BC)
3. monarch, standard, epic, domination (5AD)
4. monarch, large, marathon, space colony (1422AD)
5. prince, large, marathon, diplomatic (1376AD)
6. emperor, huge, marathon, cultural (1424AD)
7. warlord, huge, quick, religious (1440AD)
8. immortal, standard, quick, score (250682 points)

I also like to see some espionage games in the challenge
1. noble, standard, normal
2. immortal, tiny, any speed

I leave map types up to the experts

 

[elitetroops]

deity, large, marathon, domination seems like a beatable Inca game. Though I would have suggested Gilgamesh for that job. Do you want all games to be English?

Domination challenges on pangaea maps are a bit irritating as you need the micro pangaea for a perfect game. Personally I've come to like fractal for domination games. Not too much land, but not super small either, and there's quite a good chance your land mass has enough for domination. Might have to try a few starts before you find such a map, but on immortal/deity, the amount of scouts you meet will give it away early.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I was thinking English but all suggestions welcome, can use them for gauntlets if they don't make it into the challenge. What makes Gilgamesh suitable for this one in particular?

 

[elitetroops]

Early UU, which should have a long window of opportunity on marathon, and CRE is very useful early for popping borders, both to grab more forests to chop and to grab the land needed for domination.

But if you wanna go all English, that's also fine. For an early domination game like this, I think Churchill might be best. If you don't need to tech, CHA is worth more than both PHI and FIN. Maybe a case could be made for Vicky, as IMP certainly also has value...

 

[WastinTime]

I was thinking English but all suggestions welcome, can use them for gauntlets if they don't make it into the challenge. What makes Gilgamesh suitable for this one in particular?

The pie graph looks reasonably equal for the top 7 countries. I'm a little surprised.
Why not have all the leaders in the challenge be 'anyone not in those 7 countries'.
Otherwise, after this, England could be #1 and you'll have to do 'Fall of the English'.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Otherwise, after this, England could be #1 and you'll have to do 'Fall of the English'.

lol - no I'm happy to see the Inca be overtaken and in fact that's what I have been working towards for the last 18 months so I'm not going to stop now when the target is in reach!

Why not have all the leaders in the challenge be 'anyone not in those 7 countries'.

Intriguing idea, would need some additional coding, but might run with that for a future series.

 

[Swordnboard]

deity, small, quick, domination at 1440AD and a score of 246647 points

I'd love to see some like this! This one is especially egregious as an inca record since quechua become useless so soon on quick speed.

3. monarch, standard, epic, domination (5AD)

This one, on the other hand, strikes me as less good to include. Putting a lot of effort into this kind of game with the English would probably leave me with a bad taste because of the "what if" potential of a much quicker victory with egypt, persia, or inca, and an HOF record prone to be retaken by one of those civilizations.

deity, large, marathon, domination seems like a beatable Inca game

This one is in the same boat. Beatable, perhaps, but why?? Marathon/deity are pretty ideal conditions for the inca, not so much for vicky or churchill.

Chieftain/Marathon/Standard/Time and Warlord/Marathon/Standard/Time are both long-standing Inca records, time is a bit of a frustrating VC but we should be able to knock those records out of the park with new techniques and liz is excellent for rushing to corporations

Immortal/Normal/Huge/Conquest might be fun to try for with a continents map script, should be beatable and could make use of the redcoat.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Thanks for the feedback - planning to launch this on the 25th so still time for ideas.

Chieftain/Marathon/Standard/Time and Warlord/Marathon/Standard/Time are both long-standing Inca records, time is a bit of a frustrating VC but we should be able to knock those records out of the park with new techniques and liz is excellent for rushing to corporations

I've had these Time records on my to do list for a while, definitely beatable scores!

 

[elitetroops]

This one is in the same boat. Beatable, perhaps, but why?? Marathon/deity are pretty ideal conditions for the inca, not so much for vicky or churchill.

Because beating the Inca on their home ground is way more satisfying.

You should be getting that same bad taste of "what if" you describe if you play any conquest or domination game on anything but pangaea. Playing continents for that imm/huge/conq game you suggested is even more sub-optimal than playing English in a mara/conquest game. But HoF is about so much more than always setting up perfect conditions. Playing only the strongest leaders on the best maps gets boring very fast, and most players aim for diversity with EQM in mind.

The Challenge-series in particular has often featured challenges that are very far from the optimal setup, like OCC/always war/conquest and other fun stuff.

 

[Lazybones]

A couple of half-baked ideas:
1. Space colony or cultural victory with always war, could possibly throw in warmongers as opponents.
2. Diplomatic victory with random personalities.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Space colony or cultural victory with always war, could possibly throw in warmongers as opponents.

Interesting one, what level would this have to be played at to give players a decent chance??

 

[Noble Zarkon]

The pie graph looks reasonably equal for the top 7 countries. I'm a little surprised.

I've added a page where you can see the Civ breakdowns rather than the Leaders, unfortunately at the moment it's sorted by Total Entries rather than #1s but this will be changed when we move to html5. Interesting to see the disparity between the number of times Rome has been played with the relatively small number of first places.

 

[elitetroops]

I've added a page where you can see the Civ breakdowns rather than the Leaders, unfortunately at the moment it's sorted by Total Entries rather than #1s but this will be changed when we move to html5. Interesting to see the disparity between the number of times Rome has been played with the relatively small number of first places.

I can't get a breakdown by leaders filtered by difficulty. If I go to Breakdown by leader, choose a difficulty and press submit, it goes back to the Breakdown by civ tab.

Only 10 Sumerian #1s in all of the tables? That's too few! Also, seems Native Americans has the highest ratio of #1's/games played.

Interesting one, what level would this have to be played at to give players a decent chance??

Depends on map and speed. If it's a small map or epic/marathon, then even on immortal you can take out all but one AI before they send any stacks your way and the Always War setting doesn't really come into play. Also depends on map type. Maybe Inland sea could be good? Should be possible to set it up so that you only need to defend two cities at edge of territory. Or one, while army is advancing around the sea the other way. Another interesting option could be Highlands. AI is far away, will take a while before any armies reach you, and there often plenty of choke points if you pick the right settings, but the map is also huge and AI could grow out of control if you only turtle up in a corner.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I can't get a breakdown by leaders filtered by difficulty. If I go to Breakdown by leader, choose a difficulty and press submit, it goes back to the Breakdown by civ tab.

Thanks - fixed now.

Only 10 Sumerian #1s in all of the tables? That's too few! .

That's why I was surprised when you mentioned them as a potential option for a Deity game - not the first civ that springs to mind!

Also, seems Native Americans has the highest ratio of #1's/games played.

Very interesting!

 

[elitetroops]

That's why I was surprised when you mentioned them as a potential option for a Deity game - not the first civ that springs to mind!

And I've been avoiding them for domination games because they feel too OP.

 

[Ozbenno]

Remember doing an AW OCC game for one of the early challenges. That was alot of fun!

 

[cseanny]

When does the new Challenger series kick off? Thanks.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It will start on Monday 25th so last call for suggestions!