Champions League final!!!!

[Lambert Simnel]

I quite agree with MCDread's analysis - you've got to give a lot of credit to Liverpool (and especially to Gerrard and Benitez), but they were pretty much outplayed for all but 15 minutes of the game. I do wish we had another way other than penalties, though - surely the champions league final has enough significance to claim a slot for a potential replay ?

Actually, despite the obvious sour grapes from Gellion on Dudek's antics, I think he has got a valid point. Shouldn't the referee at least warn and then book Dudek for unsportsmanlike conduct ? Or is that a bit of an old-fashioned idea nowadays ?

 

[MCdread]

On the issue of CL spot, in the world cup, the champion doesn't get an automatic spot anymore either (they have to qualify as everyone else), and the same goes for the European Championship since its beggining, so I won't be shocked that Liverpool doesn't get an extra-spot next season.

 

[privatehudson]

Milan need a severe arse-kicking for their performance after half time.

Geliion's point on Dudek is entirely relevant though, he wasn't even close to his line for that spotkick, any good referee would have called for a retake. Booking someone at that point would be almost irrelevant, so the only logical punishment in that case is a retake.

I'd rather it have been Milan to save some poor side being punished for Liverpool's poor league form this season.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

To be fair Milan were the better side, but its goals that count. Is not the first time the better team has lost and it won't be the last, thats football for you.

And Dudek was way off his line for that penalty, it should have been a retake.

 

[Rambuchan]

The Rafalution Is Here.

 

[Dell19]

On the issue of CL spot, in the world cup, the champion doesn't get an automatic spot anymore either (they have to qualify as everyone else), and the same goes for the European Championship since its beggining, so I won't be shocked that Liverpool doesn't get an extra-spot next season.

However in that situation its a bit different since the winners still do get the chance to qualify for the WC and there is little chance of a WC winner failing to qualify. Plus it vaguely makes more sense as only 32 teams end up qualifying so if a European team had won it and the next WC was in Europe then Europe would suddenly have 2 extra places.

 

[MCdread]

However in that situation its a bit different since the winners still do get the chance to qualify for the WC and there is little chance of a WC winner failing to qualify. Plus it vaguely makes more sense as only 32 teams end up qualifying so if a European team had won it and the next WC was in Europe then Europe would suddenly have 2 extra places.

How so? Liverpool had every chance to qualify. Just needed to finish 4th in England, which is something a CL winner should be able to do.

 

[Dell19]

Its a different sort of qualifying though since they have to qualify whilst trying to win the trophy.

Of course you would expect the team that wins the CL from a country with 4 CL slots should be able to qualify for Europe and thats why "Rafalution is here" is a pretty crap thing to say in reality since they have won mostly on luck and at the expense of a dismal season in the league.

I'm not going to argue specifically in favour of Liverpool getting in the CL again next season, except on the basis that it gives them a chance to lose.

 

[MCdread]

Its a different sort of qualifying though since they have to qualify whilst trying to win the trophy.

But in the new model for the african qualification, it will be done through the african cup too (I think...), and just about every FIFA or UEFA youth competition is done that way too.
It was understandable in the old Cup with just 1 team per country, but really, 5 english teams? What are they gonna say to Zaragoza who had to give up their 4th place spot to Real Madrid, 5th in the league but european champion? Change the rule, but at least try to follow those that were set for this season.

 

[naervod]

Congratulations Liverpool, that was simply amazing. I was following a webcast at school, and I jumped up when Smicer and Xabi scored, and the whole class looked at me liked I was nuts. It is Milan's fault entirely for not making better use of their possesion. As for the Dudek incident, I think it is on a small part Dudek's fault for not being on the line, but it is largely Mejuto's fault for not noticing it.

As for qualification, I am fairly split on the issue as there are good arguments for either side. I have pointed out earlier, Liverpool did earn this trophy, they played a clean game against Juve, and although there was a questionable call against Chelsea, if Chelsea were playing as the quality team they were in the league, they would have had no trouble scoring one goal against Liverpool in the other 85 minutes of that game, not even to mention the first leg. And tonight, the Liverpool side took advantage of Milan's faults, and earned a victory, so all in all, so to sum that argument up, they earned the trophy and should be able to defend it. Again though, I acknowledge that the other side has many valid arguments as well.

But nonetheless, great job Liverpool!

 

[Dell19]

Rule changes tend not to always work like that... 5 English teams would be too many I guess especially as they would all have a good chance of getting through the qualifiers. I was thinking that Liverpool could play the worst preliminary team qualifier and then have to go through all 3 qualification rounds.

I cannot understand how the decision could have been made to take away Zaragoza's place to give it to Madrid. I wonder if thats why they changed the rule since now it protects Everton's place as it should.

 

[MCdread]

I cannot understand how the decision could have been made to take away Zaragoza's place to give it to Madrid. I wonder if thats why they changed the rule since now it protects Everton's place as it should.

I think they told the spanish federation the same they did the english: only 4 teams, so choose between both, and it's not hard to imagine that Real Madrid has more clout than Zaragoza... Of course, it was not directly a UEFA decision, but if UEFA now grants Liverpool a place, why couldn't they have arranged things the same way a few years ago?

 

[Dell19]

Because the Spanish FA were willing to bend the rules instead?#

btw: Sports talk seems to have exploded again recently. Its like the good old days.

 

[MCdread]

Because the Spanish FA were willing to bend the rules instead?#

Yes, that was unproper in my opinion, but as the english FA decided on 4th spot and Everton, it is my opinion too that should be the end of it.

btw: Sports talk seems to have exploded again recently. Its like the good old days.

That's because I got back after weeks in absence.

 

[Rhye]

it's simply unbelieveable

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

Congrats to Liverpool fans, you've waited for a long time for this.

 

[blindside]

Actually, despite the obvious sour grapes from Gellion on Dudek's antics, I think he has got a valid point. Shouldn't the referee at least warn and then book Dudek for unsportsmanlike conduct ? Or is that a bit of an old-fashioned idea nowadays ?

Yes he should have been punished. Not only was he off the line he was pretty much mocking/intimidating the kickers.

 

[naervod]

It's been done before. Liverpool's goalkeeper in 1984, Bruce Grobbelaar did the same thing in the same exact situation against AS Roma, and Liverpool one. This was actually per Jamie Carragher's suggestion, and while probably not the most sporting conduct, is probably not unsporting to the extent of punishment, IMO, especially as it is solely the goalkeeper and no one else who is doing this.

 

[Gelion]

Milan need a severe arse-kicking for their performance after half time.

Geliion's point on Dudek is entirely relevant though, he wasn't even close to his line for that spotkick, any good referee would have called for a retake. Booking someone at that point would be almost irrelevant, so the only logical punishment in that case is a retake.

I'd rather it have been Milan to save some poor side being punished for Liverpool's poor league form this season.

Thats what I thought . I guess the referre was looking somewhere else as it is something hard to miss. Dudek was really annoying, but they won

 

[Scuffer]

They have a linesman right on the goal line, so he should have seen it anyway.

Massive congrats to Liverpool, and also to my mate Tony who predicted at halftime that Liverpool would come back to win 3-3 on penalties. Now if he'd only put money on it...