Change Shendao to Wu for Chinese pagan religion?

[bqdx]

I feel Wu (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wu_(shaman)) represent the pre-taoism pre-confucianism Chinese religion status better.

As a Chinese myself, I have never heard of Shendao and cannot find its source in Google.

 

[ozqar]

See this wikipedia article
""Shendao" (神道 Shéndào, the "Way of the Gods") is a term already used in the Yijing referring to the divine order of nature.[26] Around the time of the spread of Buddhism in the Han period (206 BCE–220 CE), it was used to distinguish the indigenous religion from the imported religion. Ge Hong used it in his Baopuzi as a synonym for Taoism.[27] The term was subsequently adopted in Japan in the 6th century as Shindo, later Shinto, with the same purpose of identification of the Japanese indigenous religion.[28][29] In the 14th century, the Hongwu Emperor (Taizu of the Ming dynasty, 1328–1398) used the term "Shendao" clearly identifying the indigenous cults, which he strengthened and systematised.[30]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion

 

[bqdx]

Thanks, ozqar, this wikipedia article is helpful!

Still I feel the term "Shendao" is a bit overloaded: according to the Wiki article, sometimes it is a synonym to Shindo (Japanese pagan religion in DOC. "Shendao" and "Shindo" are the same Chinese character/word actually ), and sometimes it is a synonym to Taoism. It is kinda of an umbrella term in my opinion.

From historical perspective, "Wu" was first recorded in Shang dynasty (1600 ~ 1000 BC), while the term "Shendao" was first used in Western Zhou dynasty (1000 BC ~ 750 BC). Since Chinese starts from 3000BC in DOC, "Wu" might be a bit more accurate in that context?

 

[ozqar]

Well, you're Chinese so will clearly be better informed and your suggestion would carry more weight than mine. But just some points to consider
- From what I understood, the article explains that Shendao was at some point used to refer to Taoism and later on separated as a category of its own to refer to folk religion.
- I don't see a problem with using both Shendao and Shinto, especially if the game is in English - the words have the same origin but refer to different things. I see how that would be a problem in Chinese where you'd have the exactly the same words though.
- Finally, just to note that if Wu refers to shamanism, no other civ has Shamanism as their folk religion (even though shamanism was ubiquitous). There's generally a difference between shamanism and religion in that the latter is more organized and formalized in specific rituals or texts, and other details that might not be worth getting in to here. Instead all civs have the earliest religions that occurred after shamanism.

But all that being said and considered, I don't mind so much if the name is changed.

 

[bqdx]

I got your points. These are valid points. After reading some more materials, I saw Shendao refers to folk religion generally in a later period.

My initial confusion/complain is what you already mentioned: Shendao and Shinto is the same word/thing in my mind. It is a bit weird. Wu may be not suitable here as well. Hoping someone could come up with a better name for it.

I’m not a history expert. Just my two cents.

 

[youtien]

Shendao is fine. I'm Chinese and I have degree in Chinese literature & history.

 

[DC123456789]

I got your points. These are valid points. After reading some more materials, I saw Shendao refers to folk religion generally in a later period.

My initial confusion/complain is what you already mentioned: Shendao and Shinto is the same word/thing in my mind. It is a bit weird. Wu may be not suitable here as well. Hoping someone could come up with a better name for it.

I’m not a history expert. Just my two cents.

Wu isn't very suitable as it's basically the name of a priest in Chinese folk religion, and so would basically be calling one of the Christian religions "Bishop" or "Pastor" or something like that.

 

[bqdx]

Wu isn't very suitable as it's basically the name of a priest in Chinese folk religion, and so would basically be calling one of the Christian religions "Bishop" or "Pastor" or something like that.

Wuism could refer to the religion tradition itself I think, from wiki article:

Chinese shamanism, alternatively called Wuism (Chinese: 巫教; pinyin: wū jiào; literally: "wu religion, shamanism, witchcraft"; alternatively 巫觋宗教 wū xí zōngjiào), refers to the shamanic religious tradition of China.[1] Its features are especially connected to the ancient Neolithic cultures such as the Hongshan culture.[2] Chinese shamanic traditions are intrinsic to Chinese folk religion, an overarching term for all the indigenous religions of China. Wu masters remain important in contemporary Chinese culture.
​

 

[soul-breathing]

Actually the Pagan Religion of Ancient China is more closed to a kind of ancestor worship, but I can't give an exact name of it.

Also I suggest to change the Pagan Religion of Tibet to Bon(苯教, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon), it's a Tibetan Religion which can date back to century BC.

 

[Leoreth]

Sure. Most of the civs that lack their own unique pagan religion are missing a fitting symbol for it, do you know one?

 

[inthesomeday]

Crusader Kings has one, it’s a kind of rainbow circle thing. I’m sure if you googled Bön it’d be one of the top results

 

[Leoreth]

Oh true I saw a while ago that they have a lot of religious icons in their game. Will check at some point.

 

[soul-breathing]

Sure. Most of the civs that lack their own unique pagan religion are missing a fitting symbol for it, do you know one?

The symbol of Bon is like this, pity that I can only find a jpg, but not an icon file which can be used straightly to DoC.

 

[bqdx]

I saw Wikipedia already has a icon for it?

For Bon:



For Wuism:

 

[cmakk1012]

Actually, reading about Bön on Wikipedia, it seems to imply that it is actually a faith contemporaneous to Buddhism in Tibet and not the “original” faith. However, it is considered a separate faith, and an indigenous one, so it works well enough as the pagan faith considering Tibet will never follow it anyway.

 

[Leoreth]

Tibet spawns when Buddhism already exists, so that's fine.