changes in the latest patches

[vyyt]

@ilteroi , I have never seen you here on CivFanatics, who are you and how dare you change our mod?!?!?

Do I understand correctly that if I attack an embarked unit with my - let's say - melee ship, my ship will take damage based on the (land) CS of the embarked unit? = If I attack a catapult, I will receive only a little damage myself, but if I attack an embarked knight, my poor ship will be damaged badly? Is this desirable? Aren't we fighting the naval transports rather than the embarked units themselves?

I'd rather assign naval CS for transport ships (regardless of CS of the embarked unit) and make it scale with era.

As some others, I am a bit concerned that I will not be able protect the embarked units "under" escort ships. It will alter the naval warfare quite a bit, but I don't want to judge before I try it out.

And one more thing (probably deserving its own separate poll): are we happy that melee ships can now attack land units in coastal forts? I am definitely not and it made me stop building / using forts on coasts in many cases. Would it be difficult to revert - code-wise?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

@ilteroi , to clarify, this patch (july 29) goes over the 6/19 install or the 6/19/2 install?

 

[Zanteogo]

Do I understand correctly that if I attack an embarked unit with my - let's say - melee ship, my ship will take damage based on the (land) CS of the embarked unit? = If I attack a catapult, I will receive only a little damage myself, but if I attack an embarked knight, my poor ship will be damaged badly? Is this desirable? Aren't we fighting the naval transports rather than the embarked units themselves?


I'd rather assign naval CS for transport ships (regardless of CS of the embarked unit) and make it scale with era.

I would rather it be a set amount as well.

Though I am starting to think "if it's not broken, don't fix it". As in just leave naval stacking as it's been for quite some time.

As I said previously, naval units are losing a massive amount of importance with this change.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm still confused about how the changes to embarked units will work.

Do embarked military units still have a % CS when embarked?
Does 'Amphibious' remove this penalty?
Does the 'double CS when embarked promotion' still work?

 

[vyyt]

I would rather it be a set amount as well.

Though I am starting to think "if it's not broken, don't fix it". As in just leave naval stacking as it's been for quite some time.

As I said previously, naval units are losing a massive amount of importance with this change.

I agree, but if I understand correctly, it was broken - or to be more specific, it was making changes in other areas difficult/inconsistent/buggy? If I am wrong, I'd be absolutely in favor of reverting back to stacking embarked units with ships.

 

[ilteroi]

oh so many questions ...

* there was no change to amphibious attacks but in fact it might make sense to allow amphibious attacks only for units with the amphibious promotion
* there was no change to naval units attacking land units in forts (but i just disabled that, makes no sense indeed)
* you want melee attacks to work like ranged attacks (no retaliation) if the target is embarked? maybe that can be arranged, need to check

 

[CrazyG]

there was no change to amphibious attacks but in fact it might make sense to allow amphibious attacks only for units with the amphibious promotion

This could make barbarians islands incredibly hard to remove in the early game. I think a 50% penalty is enough.

 

[Stalker0]

This could make barbarians islands incredibly hard to remove in the early game. I think a 50% penalty is enough.

Agreed.

 

[Stalker0]

oh so many questions ...

If you think you have gotten a lot of questions so far, you really have been gone from the forums a long time

 

[tu_79]

@ilteroi , I have never seen you here on CivFanatics, who are you and how dare you change our mod?!?!?

He appeared one day and changed how siege units deployed their attack.

He appeared another day and changed how cities expanded.

Now this.

Ilteroi is very frugal in his appearances, but those are shocking.

 

[Recursive]

Personal solution: Don't change amphibious attacks, block attacks on land units in forts, and embarked units can take hits but not retaliate. This would retain the importance of building a navy - provided the AI can handle it, of course.

 

[Ziad]

So turns out Ilteroi not being on the forums was a small mercy .

 

[dostillevi]

So turns out Ilteroi not being on the forums was a small mercy .

He's showing us how he makes sausage. Look away if you can't handle the truth!

 

[vyyt]

He appeared one day and changed how siege units deployed their attack.

He appeared another day and changed how cities expanded.

Now this.

Ilteroi is very frugal in his appearances, but those are shocking.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ... and @ilteroi appearing on CivFanatics.

 

[Zanteogo]

Alright, just getting around to trying new changes, but I have a question that answer is probably obvious.

Where do you put these two files? With the previous non-installer updates I just placed them in various location and it seemed to work. Rather than doing that... what exact folder do they go in? Thanks.

Edit:
In case anyone else has the same question:

My Games > Sid Meier's Civilization 5 > MODS > (1) Community Patch

Thanks for the fast reply Recursive!

 

[pineappledan]

Seriously need a clarification here. If a warrior is embarked, is it still 7CS as if it were defending in open terrain?

what is going to be done about the double strength while embarked promotion? Are Songhai’s war canoes promotion and explorers going to be double strength, or will something be done about this? If 1 is the same, embarked or unembarked, then something has to be done about these promotions, or else these promotions make melee units huge damage sponges while embarked

 

[usadefcon1]

oh so many questions ...
* you want melee attacks to work like ranged attacks (no retaliation) if the target is embarked? maybe that can be arranged, need to check

Up voting this ^

 

[Recursive]

Seriously need a clarification here. If a warrior is embarked, is it still 7CS as if it were defending in open terrain?

what is going to be done about the double strength while embarked promotion? Are Songhai’s war canoes promotion and explorers going to be double strength, or will something be done about this? If 1 is the same, embarked or unembarked, then something has to be done about these promotions, or else these promotions make melee units huge damage sponges while embarked

Embarked CS = Base CS without any promotions, fortification bonus or terrain modifier

The only promotions that are still counted are those that specifically affect embarked CS. So the war canoes promotion is still counted.

i.e. Base amount + Embarked CS modifier

 

[azum4roll]

Do embarked combat units provide ZoC?

An embarked Songhai XCOM sounds very tanky...

 

[pineappledan]

Something needs to be done about double embarked defense then. Maybe +50% CS when embarked, but that still seems too good.

this also means we need to re-balance naval units, because they will only go shot-for-shot with embarked melee units of the same era. Caravels, for instance, have the same CS as knights, even though they come out later. Triremes are 2 points below swordsmen, etc.