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changes in the latest patches

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by ilteroi, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    @ilteroi , I have never seen you here on CivFanatics, who are you and how dare you change our mod?!?!? :)

    Do I understand correctly that if I attack an embarked unit with my - let's say - melee ship, my ship will take damage based on the (land) CS of the embarked unit? = If I attack a catapult, I will receive only a little damage myself, but if I attack an embarked knight, my poor ship will be damaged badly? Is this desirable? Aren't we fighting the naval transports rather than the embarked units themselves?

    I'd rather assign naval CS for transport ships (regardless of CS of the embarked unit) and make it scale with era.

    As some others, I am a bit concerned that I will not be able protect the embarked units "under" escort ships. It will alter the naval warfare quite a bit, but I don't want to judge before I try it out.

    And one more thing (probably deserving its own separate poll): are we happy that melee ships can now attack land units in coastal forts? I am definitely not and it made me stop building / using forts on coasts in many cases. Would it be difficult to revert - code-wise?
     
    Maxxim69, Vhozite, usadefcon1 and 3 others like this.
  2. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    @ilteroi , to clarify, this patch (july 29) goes over the 6/19 install or the 6/19/2 install?
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  3. Zanteogo

    Zanteogo King

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    I would rather it be a set amount as well.

    Though I am starting to think "if it's not broken, don't fix it". As in just leave naval stacking as it's been for quite some time.

    As I said previously, naval units are losing a massive amount of importance with this change.
     
    JamesNinelives, Dimmy and vyyt like this.
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  5. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    I agree, but if I understand correctly, it was broken - or to be more specific, it was making changes in other areas difficult/inconsistent/buggy? If I am wrong, I'd be absolutely in favor of reverting back to stacking embarked units with ships.
     
  6. ilteroi

    ilteroi Prince

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    oh so many questions ...

    * there was no change to amphibious attacks but in fact it might make sense to allow amphibious attacks only for units with the amphibious promotion
    * there was no change to naval units attacking land units in forts (but i just disabled that, makes no sense indeed)
    * you want melee attacks to work like ranged attacks (no retaliation) if the target is embarked? maybe that can be arranged, need to check
     
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    This could make barbarians islands incredibly hard to remove in the early game. I think a 50% penalty is enough.
     
  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Agreed.
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    If you think you have gotten a lot of questions so far, you really have been gone from the forums a long time ;)
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    He appeared one day and changed how siege units deployed their attack.

    He appeared another day and changed how cities expanded.

    Now this.

    Ilteroi is very frugal in his appearances, but those are shocking.
     
    Stalker0, vyyt and Recursive like this.
  11. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Personal solution: Don't change amphibious attacks, block attacks on land units in forts, and embarked units can take hits but not retaliate. This would retain the importance of building a navy - provided the AI can handle it, of course.
     
    ElliotS, Skidizzle, vyyt and 4 others like this.
  12. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    So turns out Ilteroi not being on the forums was a small mercy .:lol:
     
    SuperNoobCamper likes this.
  13. dostillevi

    dostillevi Chieftain

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    He's showing us how he makes sausage. Look away if you can't handle the truth!
     
    2506, Skidizzle and Kim Dong Un like this.
  14. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ... and @ilteroi appearing on CivFanatics.
     
    Kim Dong Un likes this.
  15. Zanteogo

    Zanteogo King

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    Alright, just getting around to trying new changes, but I have a question that answer is probably obvious.

    Where do you put these two files? With the previous non-installer updates I just placed them in various location and it seemed to work. Rather than doing that... what exact folder do they go in? Thanks.

    Edit:
    In case anyone else has the same question:

    My Games > Sid Meier's Civilization 5 > MODS > (1) Community Patch

    Thanks for the fast reply Recursive!
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Seriously need a clarification here. If a warrior is embarked, is it still 7:c5strength:CS as if it were defending in open terrain?

    what is going to be done about the double strength while embarked promotion? Are Songhai’s war canoes promotion and explorers going to be double strength, or will something be done about this? If 1:c5strength: is the same, embarked or unembarked, then something has to be done about these promotions, or else these promotions make melee units huge damage sponges while embarked
     
  17. usadefcon1

    usadefcon1 Warlord

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    Up voting this ^
     
    vyyt likes this.
  18. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Embarked CS = Base CS without any promotions, fortification bonus or terrain modifier

    The only promotions that are still counted are those that specifically affect embarked CS. So the war canoes promotion is still counted.

    i.e. Base amount + Embarked CS modifier
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  19. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

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    Do embarked combat units provide ZoC?

    An embarked Songhai XCOM sounds very tanky...
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Something needs to be done about double embarked defense then. Maybe +50% CS when embarked, but that still seems too good.

    this also means we need to re-balance naval units, because they will only go shot-for-shot with embarked melee units of the same era. Caravels, for instance, have the same CS as knights, even though they come out later. Triremes are 2 points below swordsmen, etc.
     

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