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Chieftain to Monarch: Game Two

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by CommandoBob, Sep 18, 2005.

  1. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    (This game is now finished.)
    This is my second Monarch game. It is on a Huge map; all other settings are random, including my civ. It is PTW, v1.27f, completed un-modded.

    (My first Monarch game was on a Tiny map; all settings random. I got Rome and continents. Egypt and Aztecs were on my continent; Korea all alone on the other one. I destroyed Egypt, beat up on the Aztecs; saw I could not get ahead of Korea by force of arms, built the United Nations and was elected world leader in 1940. My other games have been at Chieftain.)

    The Game Events and Decisions so far

    Luck of the draw gave me the Arabs.


    Yes, the >gnash teeth< Arabs. Expansionist. Religious. &#8220;E&#8221; plus &#8220;R&#8221; equals &#8220;er, ah, thanks, I think&#8221;. The Arabs are so well respected that they have not one, not two Civ Specific Articles on them in the War Academy, but a total of none. Nada. Zilch. Null. I am not even sure of Unique Unit. Kamikaze Camels?

    We have reviews of the Aztecs (Military and Religious) and the Americans (Expansionist and Industrious). But not the Arabs. Obviously, they are not on the &#8220;A&#8221; team.

    (Later I did find the review by Zardnaar. I began to feel better.)

    I accepted that I would be &#8220;Commando Osama-bin-Bobby&#8221; and looked at the starting position. Ugh!

    I made lemonade from this lemon of a start and played until 1075 BC. At that point I had a few cities and had met enough people to conclude that this was a Pangea map. But I also got the impression that I was in over my head. I was behind in Tech (expected), hemmed in by neighbors that wanted to build next to me and not at all sure of the wisdom of my city placements.

    So I decided to ask for help.

    My Plan

    1. Restart from the git-go.
    2. Play ten turns at a time; post a save and ask for advice.
    3. Play this game twice a week; posting on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
    4. Document what I do like a Succession Game, which in turn will force me to pay attention to what I am doing.

    I considered just posting the save at 1075 BC and taking the game forward from that point. But after reading the analysis given to the starting position of Game Of The Month 47 (Germans, Monarch, Small, Archipelago) I decided I would be wiser to restart and get input from others.

    Game Stats

    Version: PTW 1.27f
    Difficultly: Monarch
    World Size: Huge
    World Settings: Random
    Barbarians: Raging
    Civ: Arab (Random)
    Historical Setup: No
    Opponents : Random
    AI aggression: Unmodified
    Victory: All conditions enabled. Have not selected a specific victory condition to achieve; that will happen in the course of the game. Surviving until 2050 AD will count as a personal victory.

    4000 BC

    My immediate issue is where to plant my first city. If I plant here I have access to two cows, which is good, but I need an aqueduct to get past size 6. If I place my capital next to the river on the plains I will get access to one cow in ten turns when my cultural borders expand, probably get the second cow on the second expansion and either way grow to size 12 with no problem.

    My earlier decision was that a large city was better than a first-turn city, so I moved my settler to the plain. I roaded the cow to the east, roaded to the city and then irrigated both tiles.

    Original Save, 4000BC, no movement
  2. Azash

    Azash La Sombra

    Apr 30, 2005
    The Net
    Hilarious! :D Although some people might find it insulting. :(
  3. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Jun 7, 2005
    Good luck.
  4. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    000 4000 BC Rename Scout to Scoutty; 1E 1SE see river.
    Rename Worker to Worker01 1E (will road).
    Settler 1E heading for the river.

    001 3950 BC Worker01 - Make Road.
    Settler 1SE.
    Scoutty 1S uncover Flood Plain with Wheat SE of the Lonely Mountain; 1SW (Lonely Mountain) lots of desert and a Flood Plain with Wheat 2E of Lonely Mountain and 2 SE of city site.

    002 3900 BC Settler 1SE on city site, reveal two more Flood Plains.
    Scoutty 1SE, 1SE Reveal another river, flood plains with wheat, plains with wheat.
    Plan to send Scoutty to explore about two tiles away from city site in a circle going E to N to W.

    003 3850 BC Scoutty 1SE. Another Flood Plain with Wheat. 1E. See another mountain one turn away.
    Settler Found 01 Mild Mannered Mecca; Grow in 10; Bare Chested warrior in 10. Uncover Goody Hut 2E of M-M-M.
    Science: Learning to work with Bronze (40 turns), hoping to get Alphabet from GH.
    Tax Rate 5.5.0

    004 3800 BC Worker01 1SE. Will road, then irrigate and then irrigate the cow.
    Scoutty 1E. See Iroquois Warrior across river and in the mountains. I do not think he can see me. 1NE to Mountain. See more mountains and more of the river that flows by M-M-M.

    Began reading the GK2 Thread after playing these first four turns. From the early discussions on moving settlers from their initial creation point, I learned that the general rule is take what you have got unless something much better is one turn away. I broke this rule three times already. I considered redoing these first four turns but finally decided against it. Not out of cold, reasoned logic. Restarting this thing once was bad enough; I did not want to do it twice. (Spock vs McCoy: McCoy won.)

    I am still not jumping up and down for joy at playing the Arabs. 9-11, the beheading of Daniel Pearl and other captured innocents, homicide-bombers, honor-killings, sharia law and rampant anti-Semitism in the Arab world make this a difficult civ to enjoy playing. Today&#8217;s headlines of today&#8217;s Arab actions do taint my enjoyment of growing an ancient Arab empire.

    But - I selected Random and I got Random. I will keep the Random I got.

    And yes, naming my capital city &#8216;Mild Mannered Mecca&#8217; was sarcastic. But it was more acceptable than my first choice, &#8216;Raghead Central&#8217;. (Spock vs McCoy: Spock won.)

    Also got some GK2 insight into goody huts. I was researching Bronze Working and hoping to get Alphabet from the goody hut. But if that goody hut does contain some science, it will be the least expensive science that I do not have and that I am not currently researching. BW and Warrior Code both cost 133 beakers, Alphabet cost 222. I would have gotten Warrior Code at the best.

    So I changed to Alphabet to get to Polytheism, which I understand that the AI does not research that readily. Which I could trade around later.

    005 3750 BC Worker01 Road
    Scoutty NE, then N. More mountains, more river, some gold.

    006 3700 BC Scoutty NW, then N. More of the same.

    007 3650 BC Scoutty NW, NW. More plains, a forest in appears out the haze two tiles to the NW.

    008 3600 BC Scoutty NW, NW. More forest, plains and a wheat.
    Worker01 Finishes road, irrigate (4 turns)

    009 3550 BC Scoutty W, see more wheat to the West, move W onto wheat to complete loop. More plains, some forest in the distance.

    010 3500 BC Scoutty W, see grassland NW, see game to the N, move N to see more. Grassland is a Bonus Grassland.

    Talk to Hiawatha. He is up Bronze Working but does not want to trade for it. Hope his Mohawk gives him dandruff.

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Alphabet 34 turns
    Treasury: 24 gold, 2gpt
    01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca(1): grows in 3 turns, warrior in 3 turns, pops goody hut in 3 turns.

    Below are images of the world to the NW of M-M-M and the world SE of M-M-M.

    Below is a tentative plan of cities around M-M-M.

    Now I need to dig into my building plans for M-M-M. Not sure what to build next. Need a warrior or archer so that I do not look too weak, but that stops me from getting a worker/settler. Also need to consider M-M-M being a settler factory, or at least which one of the first three should be such a thing.
  5. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Of Cities
    Of the six city sites I selected earlier, I would like to build at least three of them. New City 4, to the NW and adjacent to the cows, New City 2 on the Goody Hut and New City 1 SE of 01 Mild Mannered Mecca.

    I would use New City 4 to produce military units. Either New City 2 or 1 would become a Settler Factory, while the other one would alternate between workers and units. Once NC2 and NC1 are up and running I plan to switch NC4 to some AA infrastructure; mostly likely a cheap Temple for culture expansion.

    Of Luxuries
    I do not see any luxuries in my exploring so far. Not good; this will encourage the natives to be restless.

    City Build Order
    Once M-M-M completes this Bare Chested warrior it will begin another one. Due to my late founding of my capital, I am assuredly the weakest civ in the game. I need to focus on some military to keep from getting walked on in the early game. Not enough to be nasty, just enough to be a deterrent. And I may need warriors to protect my workers from the greedy clutches of my unknown neighbors.

    After the second warrior M-M-M builds a settler to go NW to NC4. Then I need to consider a second explorer or a worker. Just too much to do with only one worker.

    Of Worker(s)
    Worker01 will finish irrigating in two turns. He will then move NW to irrigate the cow, and when done move NW again to road and irrigate the cow for NC4. I will then move him down south and begin roading and irrigating to the wheat SE of M-M-M. Whichever city is the third one can use this tile.

    Of Citizen(s)
    Currently, the tile just NE of M-M-M is being worked. I will leave it worked until my borders grow, then that citizen will work the cow. My second citizen should work the irrigated road.

    Overall Strategy
    Explore and Expand. Exploit and Exterminate will come later.
  6. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    IBT Hit enter.

    011 3450 BC Moved Scoutty NW. One more BG and regular grassland. 1W. BG and a Cow and forest, but not all on one tile.

    012 3400 BC Scoutty W onto Cow. Grassland, plains, edges of forests. W again onto grassland. Sees more grassland. Longs for the sea.

    Worker01 finishes irrigating, moves NW and begins to irrigate the cow.

    IBT Culture expansion for M-M-M. Did not pop goody hut because it is two tiles due east of M-M-M. Bad oversight

    013 3350 BC Warrior01 is fortified in M-M-M to make sure it stays M-M-M. Second warrior in 4 turns. With the city growth and expansion, citizens are now working the Cow and the Flood Plain Wheat that is 2SE. 4fpt and 3spt.

    Scoutty W. Sees water, could be lake or ocean. In the far distance see some land. 3BGs. If water is fresh a good city site, just too far away to be protected early. N to go to mountain. Could be river on far side of this mountain. Sees more water and mountains and forest.

    Talk to Hiawatha. He is Polite but will not discuss Bronze Working or his latest fad, Mysticism.

    014 3300 BC Scoutty NW to first mountain of this range, looking for shore line. Sees a whale, two silks and a dark green border.

    015 3250 BC Scoutty N from mountain top to mountain top. I just want to meet my new neighbors. More mountains, more water; he counts over 21 water tiles so this is an ocean. Thus salty water, not fresh. Good for boats, but not for people.
    Scoutty sees another silk, for a total of three silks all bunched together. He drools for his people.
    Whoever these dark green people are, it looks like this is their capital city. And it may be a coastal city, but cannot see in the fog far enough to know.

    016 3200 BC Worker01 completes watering the cow, moves 1NW. Will road and irrigate this cow.

    Scoutty N again, mountain top to mountain top. Need info on this neighbor. If nothing else, need to know how big their empire is. But a warrior could move this fast.
    Sees cow across the sea and some gold to the NE, but no city. Sees some water on the far side of that gold, possible choke point. Sees hills and mountains, no flatlands nearby. A river hides near the mountains to the NE.

    017 3150 BC M-M-M makes Warrior02. Begins a settler for cowland to the NW. M-M-M will grow in one turn, could be at size 4 when settler is done.

    Worker01 works on a road.

    Warrior02 E goes inspect the goody hut. Will inspect and return to escort settler to its new home.

    Scoutty must scout the borders and get more info on these dark green mysteries.
    N. Espy Entremont, which sounds Celtic, with a fortified warrior in the city, built next to a river. It has a road to a coastal cow but the worker is not in sight. It has a BG to its NE. More hills and mountains to the N and NE. Hint of more water past the NE mountains. But a lot of mountains around here.

    018 3100 BC M-M-M grows to size 3, expands in 4, settler in 7. Looking good!

    Warrior02 E to GH. Bantus teach us Warrior Code.

    Talk to Hiawatha. Still Polite, but is unimpressed by Warrior Code.

    Talk to Brennus of the Celts. He is Polite. He has 10 gold. We have WC. He will trade 10 gold for WC. Consult with my advisor, Mr. CivAssist II. Brennus only has 10 gold. I need them more than he does. We trade. We have 50 gold in the bank and are gaining 3 gpt.

    Scoutty N to the hill. Lake to the East. Two turns to get out of the mountains if he heads N or NE or NW. At least two turns.

    019 3050 BC Warrior02 sees many mountains to the East. Heads back home to M-M-M.

    Scoutty N. Sees the entire five-tile lake. See more Celtic border to the W, they have a second city.

    020 3000 BC Worker01 finishes the road, works on water flow.

    Warrior02 N to investigate the trees near his new-home-to-be. Wants to be sure there are no monsters in the woods. Not an extensive search, just a quick look-see. Should get to his new home the same time the new settler does.

    Scoutty N through the mountains. See more hills and mountains, new water to the East. To the West can deduce that the second Celtic city in about 4 tiles NW of Entremont.

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Alphabet 24 turns
    Treasury: 56 gold, 3gpt
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca: grows in 2 turns, settler in 5 turns, and culture expansion in 83 turns.

    Below is a detail of the area around Entremont, showing the Five Tile Lake and the hint of the second city.

    Below is the map from Mild-Mannered-Mecca to Entremont, and a possible city site of Silk City, which I will probably not build.

    From M-M-M to Entremont is eighteen tiles, 17NW and 1W.

    And last, a close-up of the mini-map at the end of play, 3000 BC.

    Scoutty will soon need to head East or West, North is just about done. Two more tiles North and I expect to see Artic waters.
  7. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

    Feb 7, 2005
    You've got yourself a 4 turner, I trust you will make one.
  8. Beorn-eL-Feared

    Beorn-eL-Feared Idiot riding pedals

    Jan 30, 2005
    R³ x T's nbhd of North singularity
    If I may, try considering a ring 4 circle; the map mmight be more suited for it right here. Perhaps you can plug one more city on this beauty of a river.
  9. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Own points out that Mild Mannered Mecca can be a 4-turn settler factory. I studied the city screen but did not see it. Went to Spotting Settler Factories by RFHolloway and saw that the city must be at size 5 to begin a 4-turn factory. M-M-M is not there yet, but soon will be.

    I do not think I would have seen a 4-turn factory until Own pointed it out. At Chieftain I played with (or played at) settler factories, but they were not critical. And in this game I have been too focused on baby steps to see the big picture. I will build it and put it to use.

    Beorn-eL-Feared mentioned a ring 4 city to maximize the river. At first I misunderstood him and thought he meant 4 rings of cities. How I went from ring 4 to 4 rings I do not know.

    So I created a 4 Ring City Placement around M-M-M. It is below along with the 3 Ring Map from earlier.

    The Three Ring Map:

    The Four Ring Map:

    In both maps, my second city is the same, NW of M-M-M to get the cows and wheat. In the 4 Ring, this city also picks up part of the forest.

    Cities to the South and Southeast are a bit riskier to place. Only one, due south of M-M-M, is within one turn walking distance of help. The others are all on the far side of the river. So I would need to send a military unit with the settler, since I could not reinforce it in a timely fashion if things got dangerous shortly after it was founded. Roving bands of unwashed barbarians or sneaky neighbors could make my new cities go away.

    On the plus side, with all these flood plains and grain, could it be possible to have two settler factories in place? New City 3, SE of M-M-M, with its two flood plains and two plains with river bonus, looks like a good candidate for SF #2.

    New Cities 4 and 5 are a toss up and I could split the difference between them and place another city NW of that solitary mountain that is NE of M-M-M. But I was trying to cram in four cities on the river to maximize their growth to 12.

    Overall, I like the 4 Ring Map better than the 3 Ring Map. It does not penalize M-M-M by having to share good tiles with the other cities. While the starting nine tiles are all good, six of the twelve gained on the expansion are good producers; three plains, two flood plains with wheat and one normal flood plain. The others are five desert and one mountain. Good for oil; not so good for food and shields.

    Build Orders

    So for M-M-M, the order seems pretty clear. After it produces this settler it needs to produce a military unit(s) until it gets to size 5 and then it just makes settlers, a new one every two turns. The first unit needs to be an scout, to get the most usage of my expansionist trait.

    In my second city, it needs to make a military unit first, then a worker, and then shift back to units. These units will escort the settlers created from M-M-M.
  10. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Wanted to write about the Military units of the two known civs and mine.
    Will do after this turn set.

    [IBT] Nothing

    021 2950 BC Warrior02 N to be nosey.

    Scoutty N again; mountain top to mountain top. See hills to the NW and ocean to the NW.

    Talk to Hiawatha; no trades. Talk to Brennus; nothing to trade.

    022 2900 BC Scoutty NW; plan to look behind Brennus; do not expect to find another civ based on the mini-map.
    Scoutty sees nothing new.

    Warrior02 N again.

    M-M-M grows to 4, grows again in five turns. City Governor put new citizen on plains. This would give me the settler in two turns, with the city growing in five turns. MM citizen from plains to open Flood Plain with wheat. This allocation gives me a settler in three turns AND city growth in three turns also. As I remember from lurking in other threads, the growth happens before production. Thus, the city will grow from 4 to 5, produce the settler and become 3. As the city governor had it, it would produce the settler at 4 and become 2. I will take the one turn hit on making the settler in order to keep my capital population higher for the next round of production.

    Talk to my neighbors. No trading, but each have two cities. Hiawatha does not want to trade, even for 60 gold of my 62 gold.

    023 2850 BC M-M-M riots. Thought my people were happy, not just content. Puts a stop to my settler in three turns.

    Warrior02 N to forest. Sees a dark blue border just in front of him.

    Scoutty NW again, hill to hill. More hills and some grassland in the distance.

    024 2800 BC Order restored in M-M-M; grow in 6, settler in 2. MM to produce settler this turn. No matter what I did, the settler would be finished before the city grew again. Take my lumps now.

    Introduce myself to Hammurabi of the Dark Blue Babylonians. He is a cautious fellow. He will give me BW for Pottery and 60 of my 68 gold.
    On the other hand, he will only offer 10 gold for Pottery.

    Hiawatha is finally willing to trade. He will give me BW in exchange for Pottery, all my gold and 2gpt for the next twenty turns. I think I will try Wal-mart.

    Decide to pass on BW from the Babs. Will wait for the price to come down.

    Warrior02 NW to Forest with furs. Warrior02 feels cold and wants a touch of mink.

    Scoutty NW again. Sees grassland and maybe plains to the NW, but could be coast. Should be coast, this far north.

    Worker01 N. Will move to wheat and irrigate after second city built. 025 2750 BC Worker01 NE to wheat. Will road, then irrigate.

    Settler NW to second irrigated cow.

    Warrior02 W, will begin heading to his new home.

    Scoutty, NW to grassland, N to grassland. Sees the North Sea. Fairly sure that the land to the NW is a hilly peninsula.

    M-M-M from Settler to Scout. Scout ready in 4, M-M-M grows in 4. Must exploit being an expansionist while I can.

    026 2710 BC Settler N.

    Worker01 roads.

    Warrior02 SW.

    Scoutty will go explore the land of the Celts. I expect this to be another hilly peninsula, but let&#8217;s find out.
    Scoutty S, then SW.

    027 2670 BC Scoutty SW, then S to trespass the dark green borders of the Celts.

    Warrior02 SW again. One more turn to home.

    Settler founds new city, 02 Mediocre Medina. Default build is for Archer, switch to warrior. Seven turns vs. four. Grows in seven turns.

    Talk to my neighbors. All have Bronze Working. Will trade BW for everything I have. I do not think so.

    With two cities, I have 72 gold and 3gpt.

    Brennus politely asks us to move Scoutty. We agree to move.

    028 2630 BC Warrior02 to Mediocre-Medina. Ah, home at last.

    Scoutty S away from Alesia; S again. So good to be traveling in grassland.

    029 2590 BC M-M-M Scout -> Scout.

    New Scout becomes ScoutX. Will sniff out the borders of Babylon.
    ScoutX NE. NE.

    Warrior02 fortifies.

    Worker01 digs ditches.

    Scoutty S to furs.

    030 2550 BC Scotty W to hill. Sees a North-South coastline just west of the western Celtic border.

    ScoutX NE. NE to mountain.

    Talk to the neighbors. Hammurabi is willing to part with BW for Pottery, 57 gold and 1gpt. He is my closest neighbor and this should make us friends for twenty turns.
    Still too steep.

    I play with the Science slider. No matter what I do, I learn my A-B-Cs in fourteen turns. I set Science to 10% and keep the rest as pocket change.

    I see a black looking border peeking out down to the south.

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Alphabet 14 turns
    Treasury: 82 gold, 7gpt
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca (3): grows in 3 turns, scout in 2 turns, culture expansion in 33 turns.
    Mediocre-Medina (1): grows in 4 turns, warrior in 1 turn.

    Below is a map of the Celtic Empire.

    Below is the map of the Arab Empire.
    Note that Medicore-Medina should be Mediocre-Medina. Will change the name in the game later.

    End of Turnset Impressions
    I finally got my second city, but had to suffer through a turn of rioting to get it. Not what I had in mind. Not pretty. New neighbors to the NW and S. Ouch! Not exactly what I had in mind, these guys are way too close. Looks like there could be a knife fight real soon, unless I turn these guys against each other. Could be ugly; will assuredly be interesting.

    I will do that military compare very soon.
  11. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    I sortof cheated, or at least exploited, the Space Race. I used it to find out who else lives in the world with the Amiable Arabs. The list is:
    This means my newly-discovered neighbors to the SW are not the Zulus, as I first feared. I looked at the part of the screen shot again and now think that the Carthaginians are sulking to my SW. If not the Carths, then the Babs somehow sneaked a settler around my territory and planted a city miles away from their capital. So I think it is the Cartaginians.

    I still need to analyze the military might and potential of my four closest companions. In games past, neither the Celts or Babs have been a problem. But this is Monarch, they are rated more aggresive than the Carths and Hiawatha, and my past experience cannot be my guide. My past experience let my only city spend a turn with looting and rioting.

    RL has prevented me from playing my turns. Hope to get that done by Tuesday.
  12. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    With four civs rather close by, I must take stock of their military. Below is a quick rehash of who lives around me and their UUs:

    The Babylonians are to the NE, close, fairly aggressive, have a UU that needs no strategic resources and is cheap also. It is an offensive unit (Archer) with some armor added. Hammurabi is close enough and potentially strong enough to be a problem for some time.

    The Carthaginians are about as close, hiding off to the SW, not too aggressive, and also have a UU that needs no strategic resources, the Numidian Mercenary. However, it is a defensive unit and it more expensive that the Bab&#8217;s Bowman.

    The Celts are the most distant civ I know of right now, almost twenty tiles away to the NW. Their UU requires Iron, which they are sure to have with all the hills and mountains around the Celtic homeland. It is a fast Swordsman, having a movement of two. It is also rather expensive at 50s. The Celts are also far away so their attention could be diverted from me to Hammurabi and his Bowmen.

    The Iroquois are somewhere to the East. They showed up early and went away. Their Mounted Warrior requires Horses. It has a three attack, two movements and cost the same as the Numidian Mercenary; only 30s. It is vulnerable to counterattack; these are only Warriors on Horses. Because of their movement, they could appear suddenly from the darkness. However, they are not too aggressive, so I may be overlooked by them.

    My SuperDuperJazzedUpUnit is the Ansar Warrior, which needs both Horse and Iron to produce. It is a replacement for the Ka-nig-hit (misplaced Monty Python humour) and will outclass anything my neighbors have. I just have to find some horsies and some rusty stuff and survive long enough to make use of the Arab Ansars.

    Unit Planning
    I think my best option is to build Warriors after I get these two Explorers completed. Warriors are cheap and I can garrison two to a city if needed. If attacked, one might die, but the other can avenge. After every third warrior I need to build an offensive unit, most likely an Archer.

    War Planning
    If I had to plan on attacking anyone soon, it would be the Babylonians. Their Bowman could be defeated by mere Archers and Warriors. The exchange rate would be heavy but it would remove a troublesome neighbor. Their traits are Scientific and Religious, which means lots of cheap culture buildings that could seduce some marginal Arabs into becoming infidels. Plus, they are just too close and too aggressive. They will probably attack me first.

    The second victim of Arab liberation would probably be the Carthaginians. They too are close, but a little more sedate than Hammurabi. The Numidian would be a tough nut to crack, but with enough Swordsman it could be done.

    The Iroquois I would ignore in favor of taking out the Celts. Their Gallic Swordsman just scares me. They would have to brought to heel before we could look down upon other people to conquer.
  13. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Military forces @ 2550 BC - two warriors, one in production (next turn).
    We are less than a 98 lb weakling on the beach.

    [IBT] Nothing

    031 2510 BC Mediocre-Medina Warrior -> Warrior.

    Move Warrior03 onto Worker01 for protection.

    ScoutX NE, then N to play Peeping-Tom with the Babylonians.

    Scoutty S, hilltop to hilltop. Looks like the Celts control access to a peninsula. They may not know that.

    Hammurabi has a worker he is willing to trade for Pottery, 72 gold and 1 gpt. Since this worker has no upkeep, in 92 turns it will pay for itself. This is steeper than what he offered for Bronze Working, but I can use this unit right away to begin irrigating around M-M-M.
    It is a deal.

    My chief spy says we have more military units than the Babs. Good enough.

    I move Babylon01 (the free-agent worker just released by Team Babylon) SE from M-M-M to road and irrigate.

    032 2470 BC Babylon01 roads.

    M-M-M Scout -> Scout

    ScoutZ, fresh from training in M-M-M heads south to meet the neighbors.

    ScoutX, N and N to see the Babylonian city of Ur (2), defended by a spear, next to a lake.

    Warrior03 protects Worker01.

    Scoutty, S, again hilltop to hilltop. Getting close to third Celtic city.

    Everyone is willing to trade BW. For all my gold, plus 5gpt. Sounds like price fixing.

    033 2430 BC ScoutZ South to the dark red borders of Carthage.

    ScoutX North. Lots of salt water NW and N and also NE. Mountains to the East, Hammurabi to the West. Let&#8217;s go visit Hammurabi and be friendly.
    ScoutX West, next to Ur.

    Scotty S, hilltop to hilltop. Pretty obvious that the Celts are on a peninsula, their third city is going to control the end of it. Wish this Scoutty had a Transporter Beam!

    The Wheat is roaded and watered. Warrior03 and Worker01 go E to the Wheat. Road and water.

    Still the price fixing on BW. The Babs have three cities. So do the Celts. Hiawatha has just two. As I do.

    [IBT] As expected, Hammurabi asks us to move, though he is Cautious about it.

    M-M-M grows to 4 and riots again! Consider buying one clown, but that uses a citizen. Will tweak the slider instead and keep that citizen productive.

    034 2390 BC Luxuries to 10% and Mild-Mannered-Mecca becomes Mild Mannered again. (grumble - Agitated Arabs - grumble)

    Worker01 Roads.

    Warrior03 Hovers like a mother hen.

    Mediocre-Medina Warrior -> Temple. Takes eight turns. Upon expansion, nets two Plain + Wheat and one Forest + Game. Worker01 is improving one the Wheat tiles now.

    Move Warrior04 to M-M-M for MP action. Arrives next turn.

    ScoutX NW and then N; stays inside Babylon's borders.

    Begin trading.
    Meet Hannibal of Carthage! He has two cities. He has BW, Masonry and Alphabet, which I get in ten turns.
    He has 10 gold in savings. He is a Polite fellow.
    Hannibal will trade Alphabet for Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, 23 gold and 5 gpt, leaving me with a net of 1gpt. Very tight.
    However, no one else has Alphabet and I am sure I could get some of my money back for Hammurabi, or at least Bronze Working.

    Tough deal, but I take it.

    The Celts have no money, but trade BW for their letters.

    The Babylonians buy Alphabet for 80 gold. Took it too fast, should have tried for GPT. They are Cautious, so GPT may not have worked anyway.

    The Iroquois are willing to trade Masonry for the Alphabet and 1 gold. Done.

    Move Scoutty SE and see the small Celtic hovel of Lug-something (1).

    ScoutZ is facing three jungles, SW, SE and S. Send him West to explore the land of Hannibal.
    Walks past Utica (2). Sees some dyes near Utica.

    We are currently learning how to Write. This will take 40 turns. If I saw any Goody Huts I would change that. Of the starting sciences we still do not have the Wheel. Iron Working, Math and Mysticism are the other next level techs to worry with.

    According to CivAssist II, only the Iroquois have Mysticism. Of the five techs I can research The Wheel costs 177Bks, Iron Working 266 Bks, Writing 355 Bks, Mysticism 168 Bks and Mathematics 355 Bks. If I see a Goody Hut soon (next turn or so) I will begin to research Math in the hopes of getting Writing from the Goody-Hut. I will need to check into this. If a Goody Hut gives a Tech, it may only give a Tech I am not researching and that is less expensive than the one I am researching. But I am not sure of this.

    [IBT] Hannibal asks that ScoutZ move. We agree.

    035 2350 BC M-M-M simmers down, produces ScoutA.

    Warrior04 to M-M-M.

    Send ScoutA out looking for the Iroquois; W, then SE.

    ScoutX moves N and finds Babylon (2), protected by a spear. ScoutX had ended the last turn on a roaded, mined, Grassland Cattle tile, that was connected to nothing. ScoutX crosses the river to the N. This river runs by Babylon also.

    Will I feel very sure that Scoutty will find only hills and ocean if he continues S, I will not have a better chance for a long time to find out. So south he goes, forest to hilltop. Next turn, go SE one to see all of this here land.

    ScoutZ, next to Utica, moves SW, sees jungle and forest, goes W to desert. Now outside of Carthage territory.

    M-M-M Scout -> Archer.

    Warrior03 Hovers.

    Warrior04 MPs.

    Hiawatha has the Wheel. Whee! So does Hannibal. Can they talk to each other?

    036 2310 BC A Carthage warrior comes up to the borders of Arabia but does not cross that Thin Pink Line. Wise move.

    ScoutA, E across the river, then SE to get closer to the mountains to the East.

    ScoutZ, SE and SE again, back into the land of Carthage.

    Scoutty, SE and S. This land does not end here as I expected. The ocean to the East of Scoutty may be an inland sea.

    ScoutX, N, finds Nineveh (1), protected by a spear I saw moving last turn. ScoutX NW, looking for Goody Huts.
    Sees a silk outside the Babylonian borders.

    Warrior03 and 04; Hover and MP.

    No one has anything to trade.

    037 2270 BC The Carthaginian warrior moves South and does not enter the Arab lands.

    ScoutA SE and then E into mountains. The mountain range right here is one tile wide. Sees Flood Plains, River and hills. No Iroquois.

    Worker01 plays with water.

    Scoutty goes SE. This is an inland sea. SE onto hilltop.

    Carthage seems to be surrounded by jungle and forest. Move ScoutZ S into forest to cut through Hannibal's turf. And promptly bump into Carthage (1) itself, protected by a warrior, with a settler going somewhere and a worker mining a roaded grassland tile.

    ScoutX moves NW away from Nineveh and then N into a forest. Finds an ocean just to the north of Nineveh.

    Warrior03 and 04 continue.

    No trading done.

    038 2230 BC Barbarians approach Mediocre-Medina from the north. Only one warrior in his tidy-whiteys.

    Babylon01 finishes the road, begins to water the Flood Plain.

    ScoutA head East and East. Sees so-so terrain, but no Iroquois.

    ScoutZ N out of the jungle, NW to desert and directly N of Hannibal's settler.

    Scoutty SE to mountain. Sees good choke-point that is West of Mediocre-Medina. Land continues off to the SW.

    ScoutX heads S through the dark blue border of Babylon. S again.

    Warrior03 and 04 continue.

    039 2190 BC An Iroquois warrior whacks the Barbarian north of Mediocre-Medina.

    Send ScoutA NW and then N. Still no Iroquois. See Grapes to the north. ScoutA is suddenly thirsty.

    Scotty SW, mountain to mountain. Sees more of the outcropping of land.

    ScoutZ moves NW, sees lots of grassland and plains. Moves West and sees a hint of coastline.

    ScoutX heads deeper into Babylonian territory. S, to be next to Babylon and then W onto a Wheat.

    Warrior03 and 04 continue.

    No trades. Hammurabi's treasury is increasing 1 gold per turn, just what we are paying him for our second worker.

    040 2150 BC M-M-M Archer -> Settler. I think the Settler Factory is about to begin.

    Scotty sees someone in yellow tights. Moves NE to meet them, but gets stuck in the mountain.

    ScoutZ heads west into a forest with game. Should have gone around. Sees ocean to the W and NW.

    ScoutX goes SW and then S, while staying inside the Babylonian borders.

    ScoutA goes to sample the wines. Sees a strong red border to the NE. Gets closer and tries to hide in the forest but panicked and stood still. (I hit the space bar thinking I was typing in Notepad. Argh!)

    But all is not lost, for ScoutA has awakened the mighty empire of the Ottomans. Yes, Cautious Osman has now made his appearance. He has two cities and 35 gold. He lacks Alphabet and Pottery. We ask what he thinks Pottery is worth. Osman says 30, but we demand 35 and get it. He becomes wiser and Polite.

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Writing 34 turns
    Treasury: 132 gold, 0gpt
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca (5): grows in 2 turns, settler in 6 turns, and culture expansion in 23 turns.
    Mediocre-Medina (3): grows in 6 turns, temple in 1 turn.
    Military: 01 Archers
    04 Warriors

    My Military Advisor says there are Mayan tribes near Mild-Mannered-Mecca, but I do not see them.

    Below is a map of the outskirts of the Ottoman Empire.

    Below is a map of the full Carthaginian Empire.

    Below is a map of the full Celtic Empire.

    Below is a map of the full Babylonian Empire.

    Below is the map of the full Arab Empire.

    Below is a map of the Celtic Arab land bridge / choke point to the West of Mediocre-Medina.

    Below is a map of the known world at 2150 BC.

    End of Turnset Impressions
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca rioted for the second time. Not good.
    Settler factory looks like it is ready to produce.

    When Mediocre-Medina grows it can begin to produce Warriors/Archers very quickly, to help garrison the new cities.

    Good rounds of trading. Of the known world the Arabs have the most gold. The Arab scientists are not the best, but the Arab wheeling and dealing have kept them about even in the science race.

    The Arab military is weak, but getting better. More cities will help.

    Buying the worker from Babylon has yet to pay off. That half-speed unit is working for me now and making my lands better. My lands and not Hammurabi&#8217;s lands. But it is over 80 turns until that investment pays off.
  14. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    It is time to look at where to place my next cities. All of them will need roads to connect them, but some may get connected after they are built.

    Below is the current map of a 4RCP, showing the Carthaginian city of Utica (2).

    New City 1 will be my next city. It is close enough to Utica (two tiles) to quickly build a road to and be able to trade for luxuries. In the eight tiles that surround NC1, three (3!) are Flood Plains + Wheat and two are Flood Plains. It has food and food to spare. It may not have shields, but I could whip out workers if need be. It is also one turn away from Mild-Mannered-Mecca, in case Hannibal gets frisky.

    New City 2 looks like a good place for city 04. It is two turns away from the capital, but it adds a Flood Plain + Wheat, three Flood Plains and two Plains.

    New City 3 and 4 are toss-ups to me. They extend the Arab territory to the East and both make use of Flood Plains and Rivers. But the nearby mountains really limit their growth and expansion and production. Most likely I will select only one of them and place another city between me and Babylon, which is NNE of M-M-M.

    In my next Turnset I should place one and maybe two new cities.

    The last Turnset I had three trades.

    In 2510 BC I bought a slave from Hammurabi for 72 gold and 1gpt, for a total of 92 gold. Since a worker I create has a cost of 1gpt but a slave has a cost of 0gpt, in 93 turns I am saving gold by buying the slave. The slave is less motivated to work and takes twice as long to do anything, but it is free. The long-term improvements that Babylon01 makes and what they mean to getting the Arab Empire up and moving makes the investment cheap and wise. In the short-term, Hammurabi gets some gold, which I am sure he will use un-wisely, and I pay out 1 gold of 7 for twenty turns. It was about as close to a no-brainer as I expect to see at this level.

    In 2390 BC I meet Hannibal. He was willing to trade Alphabet for Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, 23 gold (of 32, I think) and 5gpt. This would leave me with less than 10 gold in the bank and only 1gpt of net income. It also meant having wasted 30 turns of research on Alphabet. At first glance, not a good deal.
    However, I also knew that no one else had Alphabet. I knew that Babylon had a good bit of gold; it was gold I gave them for the slave worker. So I could get some of that money back into my hands. The Celts were broke and the Iroquois not much better. I might be able to get a straight tech swap.

    So I made the trade. I got my letters and lost 123 gold (23 + (5gpt X 20 turns)). I swapped the Celts Alphabet for Bronze Working. Forty turns of research saved. From Babylon I got 80 gold. I should have bargained harder, but I was too excited. I had taken a risk and it had paid off. Next the Iroquois swapped me Masonry for Alphabet and 1 gold. Another forty turns of research saved.

    In this turn I spent 124 gold (Carthage: 123; Iroquois: 1). From Babylon I got 80 gold. For a net gold expense of 44, and only 24 gold paid out this turn. This 44 gold bought me two techs.

    What if I had not traded this turn, but waited until I finished researching Alphabet? Then I would be better off because I would have paid nothing to Carthage, right?
    In the next ten turns, Carthage could have met any one or all three of these civs, traded the Alphabet to them and I would have had nothing but dreams when I completed my research. This, too, was a factor in my decision to trade with Carthage.

    And while it turned out OK, I had no way of knowing if the others really would be so nice as I wanted them to be.

    The last trade was in 2150 BC, when I met Osman. I just asked for all his money, 35 gold, so that he could make pots. He thought it was a good deal and who was I to argue.

    I just hope my next trades are as good as these.
  15. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought Chieftain

    Mar 15, 2004
    New Jersey, USA
    Good luck! You'll need it! ;)
  16. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Military forces @ 2150 BC – four warriors, one archer.
    Plan to make one city, maybe two, this turn set.

    [IBT] 02 Mediocre Medina Temple -> Archer, in 4.

    041 2110 BC -1 gpt
    ScoutA N, then NE, skirting around the Ottomans.

    ScoutX S, S again. Sees grassland, cows for Babylon.

    Scoutty, Ottoman, not Egyptian! NE to forest and game.

    ScoutZ can either go W into Forest and Mountains or head NE towards Mecca. Heads SW to forest.

    Warrior04 stays on MP, looks forward to a new home.

    Archer01 stays put.

    Worker01 heads back to the capital to be a road to City 03. Will arrive in M-M-M next turn.

    Warrior01 heads to Mediocre-Medina and will begin exploring down to Carthage. Will go W from Mediocre-Medina and later head south to Carthage lands.

    M-M-M will grow next turn, will it revolt? Cannot tell.

    Carthage has the Wheel and Mysticism. Not for us, yet.

    042 2070 BC M-M-M grows with no fuss. Yeah!

    Worker01 to M-M-M.

    Warrior01 W, sees forest.

    Warrior04, waits.

    ScoutA, N, N, still sees the Ottoman outline. Barbarian two hills to the West.

    Scoutty SE, SE, three plains + wheat (all three).

    ScoutZ is now adjacent to the new Carthaginian city of Leptis Magna. Goes W onto Mountain. Sees a yellow border to the W.

    ScoutX S, then E to uncover all the land between us and Hammurabi. Grassland and plains, some forest.

    "We meet the Romans, 1, 2, 3!" Caesar is Annoyed with us, ScoutX must have disturbed his beauty sleep.
    He has 35 gold and we have Masonry and Pottery.
    We offer Pottery. He says 30, we say 35 and get 35. He becomes Cautious.

    Hannibal has Mysticism for 130 and Wheel for 140, opening prices. I could buy one, but who has money or tech to trade for it. I wait.

    Hiawatha has the same prices for the same techs.

    [IBT] Now M-M-M riots! Ungrateful, unwashed sons of Ishmael.

    043 2030 BC Luxury slider to 20%, -2 gpt.

    Worker01 S to Flood Plain.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 try to calm the waters in Mild-Mannered-Mecca.

    Warrior03 SW into forest. Sees more forest.

    Scoutty SE, SE. Sees plains.

    ScoutX will ignore the mountains between the Celts and Babylonians. The unknown between them is small and the land cannot extend north any great distance. So ScoutX will try to find the elusive Iroquois while ScoutA explores the limits of the Ottoman power. ScoutX on auto move to M-M-M.

    ScoutA N, hilltop to hilltop. Coast is nearby; signs that the Ottoman Empire has reached its northern limit.

    ScoutZ, choice of mountain, hill or forest, all turn-killers. Take mountain to the SW to see more of the SW.
    See Grassland Bonus.

    044 1990 BC M-M-M still ugly. I did not pay enough attention to the slider, needed 30% Luxuries. Fixed now, but new city is two turns late. -3 gpt.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 battle the natives.

    Worker01 roads.

    Warrior03 NW to explore the trees. Finds more trees.

    Scoutty SE, three ivory! SE again for more plains.

    ScoutZ has the same three choices. And again stays in the mountains. SW. Sees more grassland, one with the bonus.

    ScoutA hilltop N to hilltop. See barbarian camp far to the West.

    [IBT] Disease in M-M-M, now size 5. Grows in 2, settler in 4.

    Mediocre-Medina culture expands, grows in 1; Archer to Worker, 2 turns.

    Luxuries down to 10%, +0 gpt.

    045 1950 BC Archer02 MPs in Mediocre-Medina.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 MP in M-M-M.

    Scoutty S, sees plains and desert. S again, more of the same.

    Warrior03 has the Ottoman warrior that Scoutty once thought was Egyptian just north of him. NE to shadow and nudge away.

    ScoutZ S to grassland and S again. Jungle to the South, but a hint of a border in the middle of the jungle.

    ScoutA NE along the coast, the North. Small little peninsula north of Otto-land.

    ScoutX arrives in M-M-M. E then SE, looking for Hiawatha.

    Rome has three cities and has a settler near ScoutZ to make the fourth city.

    046 1910 BC M-M-M takes another population hit, not sure why, no explanation given, just drops to size 4. Settler in 2, grows in 3. Change to grow in 2, complete in 3.
    May need to change settler to something else, will be at size 5 when settler made, drops back to 3.

    Babylon01 is done irrigating. SE, will add water, then roads. Slowly.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 hover.

    ScoutX crosses river SE, then S. Still in explored territory.

    Archer02 stays put.

    Warrior03 NE. Ottoman warrior moved due N, but want to keep tabs on it.

    Scoutty SE. Most of the land between us and Carthage is plains and desert.
    Need to trespass through Carthage to see what is on the other side. SE.

    Whoops! I am confused. I have misplaced the Romans and the Ottomans. Rome is the Red to the East; the Ottomans are the Yellows, way off to the SW, on the far side of Carthage.

    ScoutZ in next to the new Ottoman city of Iznik. Head S into the jungle to meet new people.

    ScoutA learn that this peninsula could be bigger than expected. But not much bigger.

    I drop the Lux slider to 0%; everyone is content, +0 gpt.

    047 1870 BC Mediocre-Medina (3) Worker -> Archer in 4; grows in 5.

    Worker02 auto move to where Worker01 is now. Will help Worker01 build roads for new city.

    Archer02 stays.

    Warrior03 SW to watch the Ottoman warrior than reappeared from the north.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 make the natives happy in M-M-M.

    Worker01 S to build roads.

    Babylon01 irrigates.

    ScoutX S, sees barbarian camp to the immediate East. S again and sees the Iroquois border.

    Scoutty SE, SE onto the Dyes near Utica.

    ScoutA, forest on three sides, SE. Will try to sneak through the Roman lands.

    ScoutZ has met the mighty Gandhi of India. Gandhi is skinny, Polite, has three cites and 10 gold.
    Gandhi lacks Pottery, Masonry and a head of hair. Gandhi offers all 10 of his gold so he can make pots and who am I to disagree with such a trade. Done.
    Gandhi has two spices in his territory, in the jungle. They are not connected to his cities.

    Babylon has learned the Alphabet. I think they bought it from someone but do not know who.

    ScoutZ moves W, into more jungle, to avoid the upset guy in white underwear.

    048 1830 BC ScoutX plans to go through the Iroquois territory. He cannot move east because of mountains and the one turn mountain pass that ScoutA found is too far north, and has barbarians on the way. So he must go south and sniff out where the Iroquois cities are.
    South and finds Allegheny, guarded by a warrior. It is across a river and has a jungle to the west and a mountain to the east.
    ScoutX sees that the Hiawatha and Hannibal share a common border, which explains their equality in techs.
    ScoutX SE across the river.

    WorkerO1 makes roads.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 sentry duty.

    Archer02 stays alert.

    Scoutty SE into Carthaginian territory, SE again and moves next to Utica.

    ScoutZ is in the middle of a jungle. W. Jungle changes into grassland.

    ScoutA SE into a forest of Rome. Hope Rome does not see him. Finds a Roman worker, making a road in a forest.

    Warrior03 has been shadowing an Ottoman warrior. Does nothing, waiting for the Ottoman to move.

    [IBT] Rome is annoyed about ScoutA. We promise that ScoutA will move.

    Carthage is Cautious about Scoutty. We promise that Scoutty will move.

    Hiawatha is Polite about ScoutX. We promise that ScoutX will move.

    M-M-M riots again! Ingrates!

    049 1790 BC Luxury slider to 10%. -2 gpt.

    Worker02 south to join Worker01.

    Warrior04 and Archer01 watch the flames and roast marshmallows as the residents of Mild-Mannered-Mecca play with matches. For all I know, Warrior04 and Archer01 may be using gasoline to put out the flames.

    Archer02 stays put.

    Warrior03 saw Ottoman warrior head to the SW. Goes S.

    Scoutty head S into jungle to move away from Utica. Finds more jungle.

    ScoutX head W onto a hilltop to move away from Allegheny. Sees Salamanca off to the east, size 2, protected by a spear.

    ScoutA W to a Forest with Furs. Still adjacent to Roman worker. Sees the other side of Roman territory.

    ScoutZ W to grassland. Find Barbarian camp just W of that grassland. See Ottoman settler, unprotected, N and NW.
    Move N, now two tiles from Barb camp, hoping to draw barbarian onto the Ottoman settler.

    050 1750 BC M-M-M calms down, produces settler, drops to size 3, gold now at -5 gpt.

    M-M-M settler -> Archer, 5 turns.

    Scoutty sees end of Carthage and heads that way, wading through another jungle to the S. See a coastline, could be lake or ocean, cannot tell.

    ScoutX E to grassland adjacent to Salamanca, then NE to go around the city.

    Archer02 stays put.

    Warrior03 heads South to explore residual darkness.

    ScoutZ heads NW onto mountain. Barbarian headed NW and Ottoman settler went N. See settler from mountaintop.

    ScoutA E and passes just south of Antium (1) guarded by a spear. E again and out of Roman space. See a coastal beach to the east.

    Worker02 roads. Road completed.

    Settler, Warrior04 and Archer01 move as a group to the tile at the end of the road just finished by Worker02. Will take two turns because they must cross a river. I forgot about the river crossing penalty.

    Worker01 SE to Flood Plain + Wheat. Will irrigate and road.

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Writing 24 turns
    Treasury: 166 gold, -5gpt
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca (3): grows in 3 turns, archer in 5 turns, culture expansion in 13 turns.
    Mediocre-Medina (3): grows in 2 turns, archer in 1 turn.
    Military: 02 Archers, 2 in production
    04 Warriors

    Never found the Mayan tribes near Mild-Mannered-Mecca.

    Below is the map of the full Arab Empire. The circled dot is where I plan to build my third city. It will be close to the city of Utica (Carthage).

    End of Turnset Impressions
    Three turns of rioting Arabs in Mild-Mannered-Mecca! Three turns of production and growth and opportunity ruined by my narrow-minded, self-centered people! One turn of me learning to pay more attention when using the Luxury slider. (Just moving it up a notch is not guaranteed to fix an unhappiness issue.)

    Except for M-M-M :mad: being an issue, this Turnset was sort of dull. Scouts are out exploring and met the Indians. They have also determined how large the empires are of some of my neighbors.

    I am hoping that with three cities I can tweak the Science slider enough to make a difference in learning how to Write.

    I see two places with clumps of goodies, the three silks to the NE and the three ivories to the West. But to get to them I leave that city or outpost exposed and alone. And the time needed to build roads that far away. Getting them does need to be a priority. It would keep the Arabs happy and give me some solid trading opportunities.

    Below is a map of the two goodies clumps in relation to 02 Mediocre-Medina

    I will have to think about this. The long term effects appear to be pretty good, but the short term risks seem pretty high. I could open up CivAssist II and consider RCP for these places. Right now the RCP factor is 4, which puts these cities further out and at a higher risk because of travel time for reinforcements. Gonna be tricky, if it can be done at all.
  17. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    I am still a bit upset over the rioting in Mild-Mannered-Mecca in my last turn set. Three turns out of ten!!!

    Before I play again I plan to open up CivAssisst II and see where I can plant a city near the ivory and still be in RCP 4. The RCP may be broken if that is what it takes to get luxuries to my people. I have two good workers so building a road to the new city should be fairly quick. I may (may) consider whipping in M-M-M to get a settler sooner. Not sure, just an idea.

    I also need to attempt to trade with my neighbors before I hit Enter. I did not do this the last two turns and I really need to keep tabs on them. I see that the Celts are up to four cities, so they are expanding rapidly. I need to decide how to handle them. Can I get to the Spices before they do and maintain that city?

    I have a lot to consider before the next ten.
  18. dragon13

    dragon13 Chieftain

    Sep 23, 2005
    Yukon, Canada
    Good story,though not very clear.
  19. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    One of the ideas floating through my mind was moving the settler group from where it is now, about to make a city, and take it over to the ivories. I decided against this course or action. I felt I was reacting to the game, not adapting to it. To move that settler group was a quick fix, but did not solve the real problem. I managed my people badly.

    The lesson to be learned from the last turn set was not 'I need luxuries'. The lesson to be learned was 'I need to learn to use the Luxury slider'.

    So, while I try to crank out another settler in my next ten turns, and get it sent on its way to the ivory, I will be paying a lot more attention to the Luxury slider. My goal: no cities riot in the next ten turns due to unhappiness.

    Thanks! I will try to be more clear. Please understand that I have moved up from playing Pee-Wee football to High School football. The learning curve is a bit steeper than I expected.
  20. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    May 18, 2005
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Military forces @ 1750 BC - 02 Archers, (2 in production)
    04 Warriors
    050 1750 BC (left over from prior turn set)
    Rome has Iron Working and a worker. Swap Masonry for worker. Caesar will not trade for Iron Working. Could buy Mysticism from Iroquois, but asking price is 130. And even after negotiations, will Rome swap Mysticism for Iron Working? Do not know, so will wait.

    Rome01, the new worker, is moved to begin road to Ivory city.

    Babylonian city of Ashur NW of Mediocre-Medina which blocks direct access to silks. ​

    051 1725 BC
    -5 gpt (not good, but not for long)

    02 Mediocre-Medina Archer -> Settler

    Archer02 and Archer03 stay in Mediocre-Medina.

    Worker01 irrigates.

    ScoutX sees that Salamanca is connected to one ivory, and a second one is nearby. NE, then E. Sees hills, mostly.

    Scoutty suspects that going south will only reveal a small stretch of beach. Goes E, straight into more jungle.

    Warrior03 W to home of Ivory City.

    ScoutZ sniffs an ocean to the West and heads that way, mountain to mountain. Finds a lot of coastline, but is next to an angry man is white underwear with a club. ScoutZ just has his wits for defense. Can he hide?

    ScoutA S and S again. He, too, finds an angry man in white underwear to his west and he can find no place to hide on the plains.

    Worker02 is auto moved to help Rome01 build the road to Ivory City.


    Hiawatha has IW. Ouch! Rome has Mysticism. I wonder from whom?

    Buy a worker from Brennus for 109 gold. I now have three slaves.

    Celt01 joins the Ivory City project. ​

    052 1700 BC
    Scoutty, ScoutZ and ScoutA are all slain by angry men in white underwear with clubs.

    An Iroquois warrior has moved adjacent to Babylon01, who is peacefully irrigating a flood plain.

    ScoutX, N and E to hill. Sees White-Underwear Camp to the east.

    New city, 03 Demaskus. Builds Scout.

    Archer01 to Babylon01, just in case the Iroquois warrior has any funny ideas.

    Rome01 makes road.

    Warrior03 holds his spot.

    Warrior04 fortifies in 03 Demaskus.

    Archer03 and Archer02 watch the Carthaginian warrior to the west in case he comes near Rome01.


    Deal with Hammurabi has expired. We are keeping one more gold per turn. Caesar still annoyed.
    Hannibal and Hiawatha will trade Mysticism, opening price 50 gold, 4 gpt, total of 150 gold. Last turn 130 gold.
    No thanks.

    50 gold, +4gpt. Hannibal's trade deal ends in two turns. ​

    053 1675 BC
    Curious warriors both move away.

    Archer02 and Archer03 stay put.

    Celt01 meets Rome01 and builds road.

    Warrior03 holds his city spot.

    ScoutX heads to the mountain in the south and away from White-Underwear Camp. SE then S.

    Archer01 NE to road. ​

    054 1650 BC
    Archer01 to 03 Demaskus.

    Archer02, Archer03 and Warrior03 all hold their positions.

    Worker02 joins with Rome01 and Celt01 and their road making party.

    ScoutX to mountain. Sees some wine inside the Iroquois border, but no new borders.


    Osman is now Mystic. He will trade being Mystic for letters. Sounds good, no gold involved, so I agree.
    Caesar, Hiawatha and Hannibal each wanted 58 gold and 4 gpt for Mysticism. Glad Osman does not believe in price fixing.
    Brennus empties his treasury, 110 gold, to get Mysticism.
    Could get Wheel or Iron Working, will wait a bit.
    Trade deal with Hannibal is over, +5 gpt to the Arabs. ​

    055 1625 BC
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca Archer -> Settler

    Archer05 stays in M-M-M.

    Babylon01 finishes irrigating, starts roading.

    Worker01 also finishes irrigating, starts roading.

    Archer01 stays put.

    Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 have finished the first part of the Ivory City Highway. All three move west to start part two.

    Archer02 and Archer03 stay in Mediocre-Medina and look to baby sit the new settler that will be born next turn.

    Warrior03 guards his turf.

    ScoutX sees a mountain two turns to the east and a river on the far side of the mountain.


    Buy a worker from Carthage for 103 gold.

    Send Carthage01 to team up with Babylon01. Will join up next turn. ​

    056 1600 BC
    Mediocre-Medina (2) Settler -> Barracks, 10 turns, grows in 2.

    Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 make roads on plains.

    Warrior03 looks forward to being part of a new city.

    Archer05 stays in M-M-M.

    Carthage01 meets Babylon01.

    Archer01 stays put.

    ScoutX east onto mountain. See green border further east.

    Archer03 gets to stay in Mediocre-Medina.

    Archer02 and Settler S, W and W, where the join the road work in progress. ​
    057 1575 BC
    Archer03 stays put.

    Archer02 and Settler W into forest.

    Warrior03 just waits for civilization to come to him.

    Archer05 gets ready to escort a settler in a few turns.

    Carthage01 finally begins to help Babylon01 make roads.

    Archer01 stays put.

    ScoutX E to flood plain, E again to mountain on the green border. Sees ocean to the east. Sees road inside the green border and a mined Wheat plain tile. No cities though. ​

    058 1550 BC
    We have met the Greeks. Alexander is Cautious, is broke, knows about Wheels, but not about Masonry and Mysticism.
    He will give me Wheel for what he does not know, but I think the price is too steep.

    ScoutX SE and SE again into Greek land. Next to some Greek city, guarded by a hoplite.

    Worker01 cuts through Demaskus to get to the other Flood Plain + Wheat that is between Demaskus and Utica.

    Archer01 guards his shadow.

    Archer05 watches the newly hatched citizen 5, who is unhappy in Mild-Mannered-Mecca. The other four citizens are happy (1) and content (3). M-M-M should not riot next turn.

    Archer03 stays put.

    Archer02 and settler join up with Warrior03, who stays put.

    Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 all move into the forest to complete the road to Ivory City. ​

    [IBT] Alexander wants ScoutX to move. We agree.

    059 1525 BC
    03 Demaskus Scout -> Scout.

    Worker01 irrigates.

    ScoutB is going to head towards the Ottoman city of Iznik and begin snooping there. W and W.

    Archer01 stays put.

    Carthage01 and Babylon01; N across river to flood plain.

    Archer05 stays put.

    Archer03 stays put.

    Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 begin to build a road through the forest.

    Found 04 Ivory City (instead of Baghdad). Warrior in 5, grows in 20.

    ScoutX SW and learn this is the city of Sparta (3). S to see a jungle due south.

    Warrior03 gladly fortifies himself in Ivory City.

    Archer02 looks around, stays in place.


    Hannibal and Hiawatha have learned how to Write. I can learn also for a price. All my gold (111) and seven of my eleven gold per turn. They also have contact with the Egyptians and the Vikings. I can contact either one of them for 80 gold. Too high and too risky. ​

    060 1500 BC
    An angry man in white underwear appears near Ivory City.

    Archer02 watches him, but does nothing.

    Archer03 waits.

    Archer05 waits. He gets to escort some settlers next turn. He does not yet know where he is going.

    Carthage01 and Babylon01 build road. M-M-M will not need this tile for food for a long time.

    Archer01 stays put.

    ScoutB W, W.

    ScoutX S into the jungle. Sees a lot more jungle.


    Talk to Hiawatha. I can get Writing for 122 gold (all I have) and 5 gpt. I currently net 13 gpt, so this is not too bad. I plan to sell him my communications with other civs and get my money back, and then get communications to the Egyptians and the Vikings. Here goes.
    He goes for it. We are broke.
    He knows everyone I know. Ouch!
    Brennus: talk to the Greeks, 30 gold; talk to the Romans, 20 gold; talk to the Indians, 7 gold and he is broke. We are 57 gold.
    Hammurabi: talk to the Indians, 6 gold and he is broke. We are 63 gold.
    Caesar: talk to the Indians, 20 gold; talk to the Greeks, 20 gold; talk to the Ottomans, 16 gold and he is broke. We are 119 gold.
    Alexander already talks to the Russians. I can too if I let him talk to the Indians and give him Masonry. Done.
    Plan to sell the Russians to Hiawatha and Hannibal.
    Meet Russia. They are broke. They have Iron Working. We have Masonry, Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial.
    They talk to Korea and Vikings. We talk to Iroquois, Carthaginians, Indians, Romans, Babylonians, Ottomans and Celts.
    Time for wheeling and dealing.
    Swap contact with the Indians for contact with the Vikings.
    Swap contact with the Ottomans for contact with the Koreans.
    Korea has money, 62 gold and talks to the Spanish. Korea lacks Masonry and Mysticism.
    Korea will pay 50 gold to talk to the Indians and 12 gold to talk to the Greeks, and he is broke. We are 181 gold.
    Korea will swap contact with the Spanish for contact the Ottomans and Celts. Done.
    The Vikings are rich, 364 gold, and know about the Wheel and Iron Working. They talk to Egypt, too. In exchange for Writing, they offer contact with the Egyptians, the Wheel and 20 gold. Done.
    Ragnar: talk to the Indians, 20 gold; talk to the Ottomans, 20 gold; talk with the Koreans, 20 gold; talk with the Romans, 14 gold; talk with the Spanish, 40 gold; talk with the Babylonians, 20 gold; talk with the Celts, 15 gold.
    I am out of contacts, he has 195 gold, I have 350 gold.
    Egypt has 93 gold and lacks Writing. She offers 90 for Writing but I demand 93 and get it. She is broke. We are 443 gold.
    Sandra Bullock, I mean, Spain, has 85 gold and no brains. She is behind five techs; Masonry, The Wheel, Warrior Code, Writing and Mysticism. She swaps 85 gold for The Wheel. She is broke. We are 528.
    Talk to Russia. To get Iron Working, she wants to talk to the Egyptians, Alphabet and Masonry. Done.
    Hannibal will pay all his gold (19) to talk to Korea. He is broke. We are 547.
    Hiawatha has a Worker for sale. The price is contact with Spain and 53 gold. Done. He is 219. We are 494 and +8gpt.

    Mis-keyed the Iroquois worker, will reallocate next turn.

    Mild-Mannered-Mecca is a one Horse town.

    See Iron to the NE, about 5 tiles beyond the borders. See one more to west, on the Celtic land bridge, behind two mountains. M-M-M's new settler may found Iron City. ​

    End of Turnset Stats:

    Science: Map Making 40 turns
    Treasury: 494 gold, +8gpt; 8.1.1
    Mild-Mannered-Mecca (5): grows in 2 turns, settler in 1 turns, culture expansion in 3 turns.
    Mediocre-Medina (3): grows in 3 turns, barracks in 5 turns.
    Demaskus (2): grows in 4, scout in 4 (if needed, exploration ends when Map Making is known.)
    Ivory City (1): grows in 19, warrior in 4.
    Military: 04 Archers
    04 Warriors, 1 in production

    Allowed units 16; current units 12

    The Celts have six cities, an iron inside their border. They are isolated by mountains. If Brennus decides to test the skill of his Gallic Swordsman, Ivory City and Mediocre-Medina are the first Arab cities to attack. I hope to get Brennus to focus on Ashur, which will leave me a quick shot to put a city on the silks NW of Ashur.

    I consider the Celts the largest threat to Arab independence in 1500 BC.

    Below is a map of the Celtic Empire.

    I need to get attached to iron very quickly. The closest iron is just inside the second ring of RCP 4, NE of Mild-Mannered-Mecca. I do not have a city NW of M-M-M on the first ring. To get this iron, the settler from M-M-M and Archer05 will have to walk to the ‘2’ just SE of the Babylonian city of Ur. That city’s first build will be temple; which will put pressure on Ur. Once the temple is built, culture expansion will put the iron under Arab control. Ur already has some culture, so I may need an extra unit or two in this city. It would be better if Ur was not present, but I am not strong enough to do that just yet.

    Below is a map on the Iron Mountain Area.

    End of Turnset Impressions

    Happiness was not the problem I thought it would be. In fact, it appeared to go away entirely. I did not adjust the Luxury slider at all during these ten turns.

    A big surprise was buying three slaves in ten turns.

    The biggest surprise was the trading on the last turn. The Arabs gambled and won a lot bigger than they expected. I was hoping just to come close to breaking even on the trade. Instead, the Arabs are the richest civ. More than half of the world’s money in buried in blankets under Arab tents. We have 494 gold, the Vikings 195 and the Iroquois 219. Everyone else is broke.

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