Chieftain to Monarch: Game Two

[Lord_Iggy]

Good work so far. Good luck.

 

[Ansar]

In PTW, does a certain wonder called "The Statue of Zeus" come with Mathematics?

 

[madviking]

ToZ is in C3C.

 

[CommandoBob]

Just a listing of the Civ's I have met so far and how many cities each has.

1. Babylon 5
2. Carthage 3
3. Celts 6
4. Egypt 4
5. Greeks 4
6. India 4
7. Iroquois 4
8. Korea 4
9. Ottomans 4
10. Rome 3
11. Russia 1
12. Spain 3
13. Vikings 6 (includes Moscow)

The Arabs have 4 cities, so we are keeping pace with the other civs.

The most newsworthy fact I see is that the Vikings have captured Moscow and Russia has one city. I expect Russia to eliminated fairly soon.

I have not yet met the English or the Americans.

 

[Ansar]

Hmm...Impressive, I cant believe Scandinavia would be so grossed out of Catherine's face that he had to destroy her.

 

[CommandoBob]

061 1475 BC

Mild-Mannered-Mecca Settler -> Archer

ScoutB SE SE, planning to visit the outskirts of Leptis Magna.

Archer01 stays put.

ScoutX moves further south from Greece-land. Sees dye and more jungle.

Archer05 and the IronSettler auto move to east most irrigated Wheat of Mediocre-Medina. It will take seven turns to get to their city site; six turns on the move, one to build.

Cannot recall what I had planned for Iroquois01, so I will have him build roads to the Iron City. N, NE and E to the irrigated Wheat.

Archer03 and Archer02 both stay put.

Trading

1. Babylon is Polite.
2. Carthage is Polite.
3. Celts are Polite.
4. Egypt is Polite.
5. Greece is Cautious.
6. India is Polite.
7. Iroquois are Polite.
8. Korea is Polite.
9. Ottomans are Polite.
10. Rome is Cautious.
11. Russia is Cautious.
12. Spain is Cautious.
13. Vikings are Cautious.

062 1450 BC

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 finished the road to Ivory City. All move S onto Ivory to connect it up.
Archer02 eyes them as they work.

Iroquois01 E, will road next turn.

Archer01 looks important and does nothing.

ScoutB SE and SE again into Carthage.

ScoutX moves S, deeper into the jungle, but sees more dye to the east on the coast just south of Sparta.

Archer05 and IronSettler auto move.

Archer03 watches them go by.

Trading

Sell communications with the Indians to Egypt for 16 gold.

[IBT] Carthage asks us to move ScoutB. We agree.​

063 1425 BC

Carthage01 and Bablyon01 finish their road. Original plan was to build roads for cities to east, but while tempted to road north to connect to Iron City, instead will road east for future expansion.

Iroqouis01 begins to road (slowly).

Archer03 is told a secret. The next thing that Mediocre-Medina will produce will be a settler, not another archer.
Archer03 will escort this settler to its home, midway on the road to Iron City.

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 make the Ivory Road. Archer02 watches them work.

Worker01 has irrigated another flood plain with Wheat and now begins to add a road. Archer01 watches Worker01 work.

ScoutB SE and SE past Leptis Magna.

ScoutX, on the east coast, goes S one more time and sees still more jungle and dye, but this dye (two of them) is to the west.

Archer05 and IronSettler go E.

Trading

Russia now has 25 gold. Must have raided a barbarian camp. Sell The Wheel for 25 gold. Maybe it will help her fight the Vikings.
​

064 1400 BC

02 Mediocre-Median Barracks -> Settler, due in 5 turns

03 Demaskus Scout -> Worker, due in 5 turns

04 Ivory City Warrior -> Temple, due in 15 turns (to claim outermost ivory as our own.)

Archer02 watches the workers.

Warrior05 goes exploring for a barbarian camp to the southwest.

Archer03 dreams.

Archer05 and IronSettler NE.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 make road.

ScoutC is going to explore south of the lands of Hiawatha; moves E, then SE.

Archer01 stays put.

ScoutB head south into the jungles. More jungles.

ScoutX also goes south into jungles of the East Coast.

Trading
Spain will trade a worker for contact with the Babylonians and Masonry. Done.

Auto move Spain01 to meet with Iroquois01 and build road to Iron City.

[IBT] Ivory is connected.

​

065 1375 BC

01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca Archer -> Settler, due in 6 turns.

Archer06 will just hang out in M-M-M and lead the settler to its new home.

Archer05 and IronSettler NE.

Archer03 waits.

Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 all move SE to connect the other Ivory field.

Archer02 watches.

Warrior05 moves SW and finds the camp of angry guys in white underwear.

Archer01 watches.

ScoutC S, then SE into the land of Hiawatha.

ScoutB meets an Ottoman couple, Warrior and Settler, moving in from the west, but does not tell them that all around is jungle. Moves south instead.

ScoutX moves south and into coastal jungle. And sees jungle for tiles around.

Trading
None

[IBT] Hiawatha asks us to move ScoutC. We agree.​

066 1350 BC

ScoutC SE across river and south onto the mountain just SE of Allegheny (2).

Worker01 moves NE through Demaskus and to the Plain + Wheat tile NE of the city.

Archer01 watches Worker01 go by.

Archer06 plans how he will guard his new city.

Archer05 and IronSettler NE; new city next turn.

Archer03 also plans how he will guard the Half-way City.

Worker01, Rome01 and Celt01 make another Ivory Road.

A helpful Ottoman warrior attacked Warrior05's barbarian camp and killed a warrior. Now, only an angry guy in white underwear riding a horse is in the camp. Warrior05 smells glory and 25 gold and attacks. And wins!

The Ottoman couple turned SE to follow ScoutB. He moves south again, into more jungle.

ScoutX heads south, hoping to see a plain or even a desert, just not more jungle. Sees more jungle, a Viking archer and a barbarian camp in a mountain to the south. Fun, fun, fun.

Archer02 had considered guarding the workers if Warrior05 had been unsuccessful. But Warrior05 was victorious, so Archer02 just watches the workers.

Trading
Ragnar has learned to ride on horseback. He is willing to share this information for 319 gold. I think not. I am the only that could afford to buy Horseback Riding. No one else has enough (or any) money to buy it from me.

Hammurabi is Cautious. I wonder why.

[IBT] My people love me and pave the parking lot of my palace.
​

067 1325 BC

ScoutB still has his Ottoman followers (groupies?) to the NW and an Iroquois warrior the SE.
Continues S into more jungle. Sees more jungle.

Archer01 lurks.

Worker01 plays with water and will later play with road materials.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 move north to build road. Ancient and secret maps show plans for a city either directly east across the river or N and then NE across that river. Not sure where it will go so they go north. Can always irrigate the tile.

Archer06 and Archer02 both wait patiently.

Spain01 helps Iroquois01 make a road. The slow leading the slow.

IronSettler founds (surprise!) 05 Iron City. Starts building a Temple, due in 15 turns.

Archer02 eyes the Carthaginian Warrior that is due east of Ivory City. Archer02 is not pleased, but stares.

Warrior05 heads south to dispel the last blackness between the Arab and Carthaginian borders.

ScoutC S to another mountain.

ScoutX cannot fight and so moves SW between the two Viking archers. Sees the border of the Viking Empire.

Archer05 in Iron City sees a barbarian camp four tiles to the NE and a barbarian on horseback two tiles to the N. The barb-on-horse is actually within the Babylonian borders and could attack Ur. Archer05 fortifies anyway, just in case.

Trading

Ragnar still wants way too much for HBR.​

068 1300 BC

Demaskus Worker -> Temple, to get better land, due in 10 turns.

Archer01 lurks some more.

Worker03 (from Demaskus) NE to help Worker01.

Archer06 stays put.

Carthage01 and Babyon01 make beautiful roads together.

Iroquois01 and Spain01 NE.

Archer01 awaits the day of his own settler (next turn).

Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 all SW into the Ivory Forest, which is currently outside the Arab borders, but only for 14 or so more turns.

Archer02 is worried about the workers being unprotected in the wild and moves to watch over them.

Warrior05 SE, he missed some darkness last turn.

ScoutB again moves south into more jungle.

ScoutC SE to another mountain.

ScoutX S onto mountain.

Trading

HBR still overpriced.​

069 1275 BC

Mediocre-Medina Settler -> Archer, due in 5 turns.

Archer03 and Half-waySettler take the Iron City road until it ends in the east.

Archer06 is so ready to escort his settler.

Archer01 stays put.

Iroquois01 and Spain01 make roads.

Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 make a road in the Ivory Forest.

Warrior05 heads N to guard the Ivory workers.

ScoutB still has Ottoman's on his tail and heads south again.

ScoutC sees jungle and a hill to the south. Moves onto the hill. Jungle.

ScoutX S to another mountain, this one on the Viking border.

Worker03 helps Worker01 irrigate.

Archer02 plans to guard the Ivory workers until Warrior05 is on the scene, er, tile.

Trading

Nothing changed.​

070 1250 BC

Mild-Mannered-Mecca Settler -> Archer, due in five turns.

Worker01 and Worker03 make roads.

Archer01 watches the Temple being built in Demaskus.

Archer03 and Half-waySettler move SE onto the desert tile. Not the best place for a city, but it does connect the Iron City to the Arab Empire and it is on an RCP 4 location. City will be built next turn.

Warrior05 NE to protect the Ivory Workers.

ScoutB lost his Ottoman shadow. Still deep in the jungle; he considers changing his name to George. Moves S into more jungle.

ScoutC moves SW from hilltop to mountaintop. Sees dyes, river and more jungle.

ScoutX decides to snoop around in the Viking territory and moves SW onto another mountaintop.

Archer02 heads NE back to Ivory City.

In a surprise decision, Archer06 announces that he is afraid of heights and cannot go near the mountains. Instead he wants to make his mark and city four tiles due SE, across the river. Archer06 and Settler move SE and cross their first river.

Trading, Attitude and City Count

1. Babylon is Cautious, 6 cities.
2. Carthage is Polite, 3 cities.
3. Celts are Polite, 7 cities.
4. Egypt is Polite, 5 cities.
5. Greece is Cautious, 5 cities.
6. India is Polite, 4 cities.
7. Iroquois are Polite, 6 cities.
8. Korea is Polite, 4 cities.
9. Ottomans are Polite, 6 cities.
10. Rome is Cautious, 5 cities.
11. Russia is Cautious, 1 city.
12. Spain is Cautious, 3 cities.
13. Vikings are Cautious, 6 cities, and overpriced Horseback Riding.

End of Turnset Stats:

Science: Map Making 30 turns
Treasury: 632 gold, +7gpt; 8.1.1
Trade: Iroquois, 5 gpt, 10 turns left
Cities

• 01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca (3): grows in 1 turn, archer in 5 turns, culture expansion in 443 turns.
• 02 Mediocre-Medina (3): grows in 5 turns, first veteran archer in 3 turns, culture expansion in 20 turns.
• 03 Demaskus (3): grows in 2, temple in 8 turns, 0 culture.
• 04 Ivory City (1): grows in 9, temple in 9, 0 culture.
• 05 Iron City (1): grows in 17, temple in 12, 0 culture.

Military:

• 05 Archers, 2 in production
• 05 Warriors
• 03 Scouts
• 03 Workers
• 02 Settlers
• 06 Slaves

Allowed units 18; current units 20

Impressions
Steady, if unspectacular, progress. Ivory is now connected and people are happier. The Iron City is built and in 15 or 16 turns we will have a source of iron. Two cities will be built in the next two turns. First Veteran units are being produced. No one is angry at us. Only one suspected war, between Russia and the Vikings.

Below is a map of the Arab empire at 1250 BC:

Below is an RCP 4 map of the eastern Arab empire at 1250 BC:

Archer03 and Half-waySettler will build on New City 4. Archer06 and Settler will build on New City 1.

While I do not really like either one, I tend to favor New City 2, three tiles east of Mild-Mannered-Mecca, over the New City 3. And I think the reason I like it better is because of the spacing between its two neighbors. So I will build New City 2 and will not build New City 3.

Below is an RCP 4 map of the western Arab empire at 1250 BC:

To the west I only plan one more city on the one ring; New City 5. This city will be able to lend support to Ivory City, if needed. It will be a slow grow city, but irrigation is not far away.

Once these two cities are built, which may not be in the next turnset, the Arab military needs to improve. It will need to build warriors that can be made into Swordsman. And will need to build veteran swordsman, too.

One glaring lack and oversight is no Embassies with anybody. I forgot until the end of the last turn and decided not to buy them this late in the turnset. The Arab treasury can bear the expense; prices ranged from 33 gold (Roman embassy, I think) to 75 gold (Viking embassy). Knowing where in the world the capitals are located will give the three scouts a better idea of where to explore.

Below is a map of the known world at 1250 BC:

The age of the scouts is coming to a close. I may need a scout to go investigate the Celts and see if they have connected to the iron in their territory. And perhaps a scout to determine whether or not the bay to the west of the Arab lands connects to the open sea or is landlocked. I suspect that it does connect to the open sea, but the map is far from conclusive. But with Map Making available in the foreseeable future, all these guys can do is pop goody-huts, and I have not seen any of them for a long time.

Below is the mini-map from 1250 BC:

While I have contact with thirteen other people, I can only locate eight on the mini-map. I see the Carthage, Celts, Babylonians, Ottomans, Iroquois, Romans, Greeks and, most recently, the Vikings. I do not see the Russia, Egypt, Spain, India or Korea.

 

[CommandoBob]

In a possible breach of Succession Game manners, I am going to reopen my last turn set and purchase Embassies.
This will give a peek into the capitals of my next-door neighbors and will allow me to place my most distant companions on my mini-map.
In turn, this will give me better insight on where to explore.

For each embassy I have a little brief commentary along with the capital city screen and a map of the capital.

• Babylon
  
  
  
  
  Babylon is the largest of the capitals and part of three-way second-place tie for most cities, having six. Babylon itself is in a dream spot: on a river that runs right through the middle of the city radius and touches 14 tiles, eight of them grassland, four of the grassland with the shield bonus. It has a cow, a deer and a wheat in the city radius also. It has some forest to be chopped later, but not many. Babylon the city lacks luxuries and roads, but with six cities it has been a busy place.
  
• Carthage
  
  
  
  Carthage is a nice, fat, complacent city. It is one of the largest capitals, at size 4, and will probably build the Oracle, due in 27 turns. But the vigor it took to build two cities has drained Carthage of any more expansion. Carthaginian roads are almost nonexistent, which is probably due in part to the jungles that dominate the landscape around Carthage. Carthage needs another worker, not a wonder.
  
• Celts
  
  
  
  The Celts are one of the largest people met so far. They have seven cities, fairly well spread out. Entremont itself has its own river, with mostly grassland surrounding it. The Celtic Bay is to the SE, along with a cow. It has two furs in the forest to the NE. Most disturbing is the iron ore just two tiles away from the capital to the NE. As long as Brennus does not know how to make swords, many will be safe. The Celts are building the Pyramids, but have a long way to go.
  
• Egypt
  
  
  
  Thebes has a good starting location. A bit too many hills, but a river and grassland help, along with some dyes just to the north. From this startup Egypt has now grown to five cities, which means that she is keeping up with most of the Jones. This current build has problems. The settler will be paid for in two turns. And in two turns, Thebes will be size 2. The settler will be around for a while before Thebes can give birth to it.
  
• Greece
  
  
  
  The Greeks have five cities, all in the east part of SomeLand. They are planted next to a river but have a lot of ocean tiles to the east. They are one of the few people to have roads that connect to another of their cities. Athens has no luxuries and may now know about the iron deposits just west of her. She also has two Wheat in her city radius. Like many others, she has paid for her settler and now has to wait to grow up to survive settler-birth.
  

 

[CommandoBob]

• India
  
  
  
  
  India has a good capital setup. Not great, but good and from this start India now has four cities. Delhi has lots of grassland, four game in the city radius and now a horse! But Delhi needs a river and does not need the massive jungles to the north. Delhi builds a settler this turn, but it was paid for much earlier.
  
• Iroquois
  
  
  
  
  The Iroquois have an enviable starting point. Grasslands abound, one with Wheat, a river, plains (maybe flood plains), a few scattered forest to be chopped later, some game and two ivories. No wonder they have six cities.
  
• Korea
  
  
  
  
  Korea almost has their head screwed on straight. Four cities, and almost done with a settler to make five. But, while the settler is paid for, Seoul can produce, since Seoul is only a size 2. Good idea, bad execution. Seoul has good natural features, grasslands, plains and two rivers. And the terrain is being developed well for Seoul, just not too well for Korea.
  
• Ottomans
  
  
  
  
  Somehow the Ottomans have six cities and I am sure that most of them came from Istanbul. Lots of grassland and a lake, surrounded by hills and mountains, this is an isolationist dream come true. The area around Istanbul is well developed, but the city is not connected to the rest of the empire. Few others are connected either, so the Ottomans are not special in that regard. However, it will take some extra effort to connect through the natural barriers around this capital city. The shortest distance out is one hill and one mountain; if they want the iron it is on another mountain.
  
• Rome
  
  
  
  
  Rome has five cities; the Arabs have found three so far. Rome has done well for itself. Four furs close by, three game, next to a river and close to a lake; it has plenty of potential to keep its citizens happy. But with only two, maybe three plains in its city radius, getting citizens will be the hard part.
  

 

[CommandoBob]

• Russia
  
  
  
  
  This is a bad start for anybody: in hills, surrounded by hills. Sure, St. Petersburg in sitting on furs, and has three incense that are adjacent to the capital. But what about growth? This city can grow to size three, not have enough food to feed the three and drop back to size two. And repeat.
  To be fair to Catherine, this was not her first choice of a capital. Moscow was taken by the Vikings; this city was founded in 3250 BC. It was good she had a second city. But whoever selected this city site needs to be sent to the gulag for some reeducation.
  
• Spain
  
  
  
  
  Spain has three cities and will soon have a fourth, but is lagging behind in the city making race. This is an excellent starting spot, with three cows on plains, one game on plains and one game in the forest. Five bonuses AND a dye, all within the city radius of the capital. And what has Spain done? Made two more cities, connected the dye and the bonus cow and game. Just a weak start.
  
• Vikings
  
  
  
  
  
  
  The Vikings have six cities, but none appeared connect to Trondheim (3). The Vikings have perhaps the only Barracks in the world. Perhaps the closeness of the vineyard explains why the Vikings are so belligerent. Trondheim will take a lot of work to be productive, being surrounded by hills and jungles.
  

This is the Mini Map before:

This is the Mini-Map now:

Which leads to one very important question: Who lives in the darkness to the east?

Below is the box score of cost, etc., from the embassies.

Civ (# cities), Embassy Cost, Capital Production in turns, Strategic Resources, Luxuries

1. Babylon (6): 33 gold - Pyramids, 68 turns, SR: - , LX: -
2. Carthage (3): 32 gold - Oracle 27 turns, SR: - , LX: -
3. Celts (7): 36 gold - Pyramids 69 turns, SR: - , LX: Furs
4. Egypt (5): 44 gold - Settler 02 turns, SR: - , LX: Dyes
5. Greece (5): 44 gold - Settler 01 turns, SR: Horses, LX: -
6. India (4): 44 gold - Settler 01 turns, SR: - , LX: -
7. Iroquois (6): 32 gold - Oracle 38 turns, SR: - , LX: Ivory
8. Korea (4): 74 gold - Settler 01 turns, SR: - , LX: -
9. Ottomans (6): 36 gold - Oracle 42 turns, SR: - , LX: Ivory (4)!
10. Rome (5): 31 gold - Oracle 45 turns, SR: - , LX: Furs
11. Russia (1): 62 gold - Archer 03 turns, SR: - , LX: Incense
12. Spain (3): 57 gold - Oracle 89 turns, SR: - , LX: Dyes
13. Vikings (6): 54 gold - Oracle 32 turns, barracks; SR: -, LX: Wine

Arabs (5) 53 gold left – Archer 5 turns, SR: Horses, LX: Ivory (2)

 

[CommandoBob]

Seven turns only.

[IBT] Vikings ask for ScoutX to move. We agree.
Barbarians move toward Ur on horseback.


071 1225 BC

Half-waySettler founds 06 Kufah and connects the borders of 05 Iron City with the rest of the Arab Empire.
Kufah grows in seven turns, will produce an archer in 10 turns.

Archer03 stays put.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 irrigate.

Archer06 and Settler head SE.

Archer01 stays put.

Archer02 to Ivory City.

ScoutC sees a lonely Iroquois settler to the east in the jungle but ignores him, move S to a hill.

ScoutB heads SW to investigate India.

ScoutX heads W to investigate Viking-land.

Warrior05 guards the Ivory Workers.

Trading
Let Egypt talk to the Ottomans and Romans for 13 gold each.
​

072 1200 BC

Iroqouis01 and Spain01 NE to build road to Iron City.

Archer03 fortifies in Kufah.

Archer06 and Settler cross the river, heading SE.

Archrer01 watches them move.

Auto move Warrior05, Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 to begin to bring water to Ivory City from Mediocre-Medina.

Archer02 watches them go by.

ScoutC SW to hill, heading to Egypt.

ScoutB SW.

ScoutX W.

Worker01 and Worker03 NE to begin irrigating and roading, in that order.

Trading
Sell Writing to Spain for 27 gold. She is broke.
Sell Writing to India for 10 gold. He is broke.
Vikings have monopoly on HBR. Everyone else is equal in tech.

​

073 1175 BC

Mediocre-Medina Archer -> Chariot, due in 4.

Barbarians menacing Carthage01 and Babylon01. Auto move Archer03 in Iron City to protect them.

Auto move Archer07 to Iron City.

Iroquois01 and Spain01 make road to Iron City.

Archer02 watches.

ScoutC SW to mountain. Sees Egyptian border.

ScoutX NW to Viking Horse, unconnected, on a hill. Finds Copenhagen.

ScoutB W to avoid Carthaginian warrior to SW, enters India.

Worker01 and Worker03 play in water.

Settler starts new city, 07 FarRiverside, grows in 4, worker in 10.

Archer01 stays put.

Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 play in water; Warrior05 protects.

Archer06 fortifies in FarRiverside.

Trading
Viking will trade HBR at an opening price of 143 (all of it) and 12 gpt (of 14 gpt). Nope.

Egypt has Polytheism, but will not trade for it.
​

[IBT] India asks us to move. We agree.


074 1150 BC

Mild-Mannered-Mecca Archer -> Settler, due in 6.

Archer08 from M-M-M, E, E and N to protect workers.

Archer01 stays put.

Warrior05 protects.

Archer02 stays put.

ScoutC S, mountain to hilltop, heading to Egypt.

ScoutX W away from Copenhagen.

ScoutB SW into jungle, heading to open grassland of India.

Archer07 arrives in Kufah and watches.

Trading
No changes.
​

075 1125 BC

Carthage01 and Babylon01 NW to road and then irrigate. Archer03 stays with them.

Archer07 leaves Iron City to talk with the Celt Warrior that is talking to Spain01 and Iroquois01.

Worker02, Rome01 and Celt01 finish watering one tile and move W one tile to repeat. Warrrior05 moves with them.

Worker01 and Worker03 make roads.

Archer01 watches.

Archer02 stays put.

ScoutC S to hilltop.

ScoutX W into jungle.

ScoutB SW and SW in India.

Archer08 N to mountain to watch barbarian.

Trading
Nothing.
​

076 1100 BC

Carthage01 and Babylon01 build road, Archer03 protects.

Warrior05 protects Workers.

Iroquois01 and Spain01 SE SE and irrigate, to bring water to Iron City. Archer07 moves to protect.

ScoutC S, enters Egypt, sees Memphis, SW to hilltop.

ScoutX W to grassland, sees Egyptian border due W and barbarian due N, heads W.

ScoutB E and SE inside India.

Archer08 into Iron City.

Trading
Russia has one worker for sale, 120 gold. No, not this time. Catherine needs all the help she can get.

​

[IBT] Egypt asks us to move ScoutC. We agree.

077 1075 BC

Mediocre-Medina Chariot -> Archer, due in 3 turns.

Demaskus Temple -> Settler, due in 8 turns.

Archer01 contemplates escorting a settler to their new home.

Worker01 and Worker03 S across river onto plains to road and irrigate.

Archer03 protects.

Archer08 fortifies in Kufah.

Archer07 protects.

Chariot01 stays in Mediocre-Medina.

Worker02, Rome01, Celt01 and Warrior05 move NE to improve the Wheat + plains tile.

ScoutB has sited Madras in India, a coastal city. SE and SE.

ScoutC SE and S in Egypt. Sees Iron Ore, not connected, next to Memphis.

ScoutX W onto hilltop in Egypt.

Trading
Nothing.
​

End of Turnset Stats:

Science: Map Making 23 turns
Treasury: 199 gold, +12gpt; 8.1.1
Trade: Iroquois, 5 gpt, 3 turns left
Cities:

• 01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca (5): grows in 3 turns, settler in 3 turns, culture expansion in 436 turns, 1 Horse.
• 02 Mediocre-Medina (4): grows in 5 turns, archer in 3 turns, culture expansion in 5 turns.
• 03 Demaskus (4): grows in 5, settler in 8 turns, culture expansion in 4 turns.
• 04 Ivory City (1): grows in 1, temple in 2, 0 culture.
• 05 Iron City (1): grows in 10, temple in 7, 0 culture.
• 06 Kufah (1): grows in 1, archer in 4, 0 culture.
• 07 FarRiverside (2): grows in 5, worker in 3, 0 culture.

Military:

• 01 Chariots
• 07 Archers, 1 in production
• 05 Warriors
• 03 Scouts
• 03 Workers, 1 in production
• 00 Settlers, 2 in production
• 06 Slaves

Impressions
Overall, a set of yawning turns. Two new cities, for a total of seven, one new tech in Egypt (Polytheism), one almost new tech in the land of the reindeer, both priced high due to monopoly tech status and a new military toy, the chariot. In building just a few more cities, the Arabs will be one of the most citied people on the planet.

I have two ‘1’ ring cities to place, to the NE of Mild-Mannered-Mecca and due E of M-M-M. Placing cities on the ‘2’ ring is going to be a problem, because other people want that land too. Right now there are two directions to grow uncontested, Southeast and Northwest.
Southeast

Blue Dot would be the first city built going SE of M-M-M. It is not very far, in terms of road building, from 07 FarRiverside. It blocks Iroquois growth northward on the west side of the mountains. It has a river for growth, lots of grassland and a second horse for the Arabs.

Red Dot, a ‘1’ ring city, would be the second city built this direction. It does not offer much except good growth due to flood plains. This will probably be a worker factory.

Orange Dot would not be built until Red Dot is built. Orange Dot, exposed to the East to everybody but on a hill for good defense, is a stepping stone to the East. It is at the narrowest part of this line of mountains. It will only require building a road through one and only mountain tile to supply this city with luxuries and reinforcements. Two other sites, NE and NE-N of Orange Dot, are better growth sites, since they are adjacent to a river. In order to protect their supply line as best as possible, each would need roads through two mountains tile, to reach Red Dot.
When the time comes to expand eastward, Orange Dot will be the gateway into the eastern lands.

Northwest

Only two good city sites on the ‘2’ ring are open in this direction, Purple Dot and Pink Dot. Both infringe upon Asher (1) of Babylon.

Pink Dot is slightly better because it will gain use two game tiles; Purple Dot only gains us a cow. When Ivory City finishes its Temple, Purple Dot will gain us another Wheat on the culture expansion. Pink Dot could also take away the horse tile from Asher if it is not being worked; hard to tell just now. I would plant Pink Dot first, just to put an Arab city between Asher and Babylon.

Why Seven Turns?

I started this thread and restarted this game because of the bad experience I had in the first turns. 1075 BC is when I stopped the other game and I wanted to stop now in order to compare the two situations, apples to apples, so to speak. The side by side, game to game analysis will be in my next post.

 

[CommandoBob]

I was quite anxious to compare what I had done playing the Arabs this time to what I had done before. Two things had compelled me to start over: Mecca had rioted three separate times and the closeness of the other civs. After Mecca rioted the third time and I saw several other civs building in my direction (Babylon, Celts and Ottomans), I got scared that I was out of my league. So I began again, with the only real spoiler being the fact that I knew the area an iron deposit would appear.

The first things I compared where the Histographs. But as you can see, there is very little difference between them. The score, the power and the culture are almost identical. I did not expect this.
Culture

Power

Score

Curious, I compared my military then to my military now. The mix then had faster units, but with less archers, and thus my military then is less powerful than my military now.
Military

I compared the CivAssist II General screens to each other. Big differences show up in the game time: 1.3 hours then vs. 15+ hours now. Some of this time is due to turn logging and getting screenshots, both of which add a lot of time to each turn. Some is due, I hope, to more consideration of what and how to play.

CivAssistII General Screen

But overall, the General screens do not show any meaningful difference between the two Arab empires. Russia was a scientific threat then; in this game she has only one city. Money and size and the number of cities are good indicators of Civ success, but they are fickle.

Technology then was a bit more advanced than it is now. In the first game the Arabs had eleven techs by this point. They were up Horseback Riding and were researching Philosophy. In this game the Arabs have ten techs, and are researching Map Making. HBR and Polytheism are monopoly techs held by the Vikings and the Egyptians. In the first game, due to Russia science, several civs had HBR at this point.

CivAssistII Technology Screen

When I looked at the map of the Arab Empire I was not pleased. The layout seemed okay, but not too okay. Mecca had no buffer cities to the south and the Empire seemed to have taken on an East-to-West axis of growth. Three civs are encroaching from the north and the way east is blocked by the mountains.

Arab Empire Then

It was not until I examined the RCP of this game that I saw the true difference between the two.

RCP 4 Then

Of the four cities I had added, only one was on a ring. The others were in good places, but just not on a ring.

Overall

I think that the city placement in this game is far better than the first game. The cities are close enough to support each other and are balanced in placement around Mild-Mannered-Mecca. These cities, I hope, are exerting some pressure on my neighbors and forcing them to look elsewhere for land to grow on.

In the ‘Then’ game, I did not have a plan. As strange as it seems, I did not know if I would survive or not. In the ‘Now’ game, I knew I could survive until this point and that ‘spoiler’ was enough to allow me to plan my turns and not just play my turns. At this point in the ‘Now’ game I am considering how to win, not how to survive.

I have also been helped by own who pointed out that M-M-M could be a four turn settler pump and by Beorn-eL-Feared who suggested an RCP of 4 and milking the river.

 

[Mirc]

I didn't know someone really uses the RCP .

 

[CommandoBob]

I didn't know someone really uses the RCP

The changes to C3C eliminated the usefulness of RCP. But this is a PTW game, where RCP is very much alive. (My PC is too old and slow to run C3C; it requires a 500MHz chip, mine is 400MHz.)

This also makes it hard to get into a succession game, but recently two training games have been started; one for PTW (nerovats04) and one for Vanilla (tao_1). I am in both.

 

[Mirc]

BTW, CommandoBob, what means succesion games?

 

[CommandoBob]

BTW, CommandoBob, what means succesion games?

The quick answer: A group of people taking turns playing one game of Civ, passing the save file from person to person.
The wife's answer: another reason for him to stay on the computer and not talk (listen) to me.
The best answer: this sticky

 

[Mirc]

I imagined it was something like this, but I never knew exactly. Thanks!

 

[MEL THE GREAT]

why did you not start at your starting location? you would've been stronger that way

 

[CommandoBob]

why did you not start at your starting location? you would've been stronger that way

Ignorance.

I saw the river and knew it meant growth to size 12. Where I was could only get to size 6. So I moved.

So I ignored the two cows. Now I know better, but then, well, I was not as smart as I thought I was.

 

[CommandoBob]

In the next turnsets I plan to build the cities mentioned in Post #30. These six cites, three to the northwest towards the Celts and three to the southeast meeting the Iroquois and Romans, will form the basis of the extended and soon to be expanded Arab Empire.

I also plan to tweak the science slider and see if we Arabs can learn Map-Making a little bit faster. Sand looks like sand in the desert, but the learned ones tell me it is something good to know.

In the midst of building settlers, I also need to build more warriors to escort them. These warriors will be rotated and upgraded to Swordsman. Not too soon, I still have to connect to the iron next to Iron City.

I think I will try for a Conquest victory. This will give me a chance to improve my pointy-stick tactics.

Before I can really start I need to secure the lands to the north of Arabia. The Celts and the Babylonians will have to be subdued, the Celts first and then the Babs. Of the two, I fear the Gallic Swordsman, the Celtic UU, more than the Babylonian's UU, the Longbowman. My plan is to join with Babylon in a military alliance against the Celts. I will let them hammer on each other for a few turns and then begin to whomp-up-on the weaken Celts. Once they are nice and docile, if not eliminated, then I will turn my attention to the Dark Blue Babylonians and take their land from them. The land of the Celts is much more defensible, with continious mountains and hills for defense. They will be the tougher nut to crack, so I will get Hammurabi to help me some. The Babylonian Empire is very open to marching units and has no great defensive feature.

So Phase 1 is getting the MA with Babylon. Phase 2 is swapping Celtic cities for Arab ones. Phase 3 is swapping Dark Blue cities for Pink (Rose?) tinted cities.

And then . . . Rome ?

 

[CommandoBob]

End of Prior Turnset Stats:

Science: Map Making 23 turns
Treasury: 199 gold, +12gpt; 8.1.1
Trade: Iroquois, 5 gpt, 3 turns left
Cities:

• 01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca (5): grows in 3 turns, settler in 3 turns, culture expansion in 436 turns, 1 Horse.
• 02 Mediocre-Medina (4): grows in 5 turns, archer in 3 turns, culture expansion in 5 turns.
• 03 Demaskus (4): grows in 5, settler in 8 turns, culture expansion in 4 turns.
• 04 Ivory City (1): grows in 1, temple in 2, 0 culture.
• 05 Iron City (1): grows in 10, temple in 7, 0 culture.
• 06 Kufah (1): grows in 1, archer in 4, 0 culture.
• 07 FarRiverside (2): grows in 5, worker in 3, 0 culture.

Military:

• 01 Chariots
• 07 Archers, 1 in production
• 05 Warriors
• 03 Scouts
• 03 Workers, 1 in production
• 00 Settlers, 2 in production
• 06 Slaves

[IBT] At 100% science we learn MapMaking in 20 turns. Money is better.
Mild-Mannered-Mecca revolts! Hang the traitors.
Lux to 20%.

078 1050 BC

Archer03, Archer02 and Archer07 protects.

Chariot01 preens.

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 irrigate; Warrior05 protects.

Worker01 and Worker03 irrigate.

ScoutC SE and SE again.

ScoutX SE.

ScoutB SE and E, sees Calcutta.

Trading -
​

079 1025 BC

Ivory City Chariot -> Warrior, due in 4 turns.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 irrigate.

ScoutC S.

ScoutX S.

ScoutB S and SE.

Warrior05, Archer03 and Archer07 protect workers in the field.

MM Mild-Mannered-Mecca from Settler in 1, grow in 2 to Settler in 2, grow in 1.

Trading
Rome, Greece and Iroquois have learned HBR.
Buy HBR from Greece for 135 gold.
Sell to Egypt for 52 (all) gold.
Sell to Celts for 22 (all) gold. 52 + 22 = 74
Sell to Korea for 36 (all) gold. 74 + 36 = 110
Sell to Babs for 13 (all) gold. 110 + 13 = 123
​

[IBT] Mediocre-Medina Archer -> Settler, due in 5.
FarRiverside Worker -> Worker, due in 10.

080 1000 BC

Worker01 and Worker 03 make road.

Worker04 (from FarRiverside) S to make road.

Iroquois01 and Spain01 NE to irrigate the road.

Archer08 (from Mediocre-Medina) to M-M-M to escort new settler.

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 make road.

ScoutB SE S.

ScoutC S.

ScoutX see iron near Elephantine, moves S.

Archer03, Archer07 and Warrior05 protect workers.

Trading -
​

[IBT] M-M-M riots again. Buy a clown.
Kufah Archer -> Archer, due in 10.


081 975 BC

Archer09 (from Kufah) to Mediocre-Medina for escort duty.

Archer08 arrives in M-M-M in time to put out the fires.

Worker04 makes road.

Guard units guard. Scouts scout.

Trading -
​

[IBT] M-M-M Settler -> Settler


082 950 BC

Worker02, Celt01, Rome01 and Warrior05 NE.

Worker01 and Worker03 SE to Worker04.

Archer09 arrives in Mediocre-Medina for escort duty.

Archer08 and NewSettler SE.

Trading
​

[IBT] Ivory City Warrior -> Worker, due in 5. Next chop wood, build granary.

083 925 BC

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 make road W of Mediocre-Medina; Warrior05 guards.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 SE, then S to irrigate; Archer03 follows.

Archer08 and NewSettler arrive in FarRiverside.

Blue and Orange Dots to the SE are invalid. Rome has a city next to Orange Dot and Allegheny has expanded to include Blue Dot.

Worker01 completes road, Woker03 begins to irrigate, along with Worker04.

Trading
Egypt and Iroquois have learned MapMaking.
Buy MapMaking from Egypt for 107 gold and World Map.
Sell MM to Korea for 8 (all) gold and Territory Map.
Trade MM to Russia for World Map. 8 + 0 = 8
Sell MM to Carthage for 5 (all) gold and WM. 8 + 5 = 13
Trade MM to India for WM. 13 + 0 = 13
Sell MM to Babylon for 31 (all) gold and WM. 13 + 31 = 44
Sell MM to Ottomans for 1 (all) gold and WM. 44 + 1 = 45
Trade MM to Spain for WM. 45 + 0 = 45
Sell MM to Celts for 60 (all) gold and WM. 45 + 60 = 105
Sell MM to Rome for 39 (all) gold and WM. 105 + 39 = 144
Sell MM to Greece for 51 (all) gold and WM. 144 + 51 = 195
Sell MM to Celts for 9 (all) gold and WM. 195 + 9 = 204

Begin learning Literature, to build some libraries.
Science at 90%, -4gpt, 16 turns.
​

[IBT] Mediocre-Medina Settler -> Horseman, due in 6.
Demaskus Settler -> Warrior, due in 4.
Iron City Temple -> Worker, due in 5.

084 900 BC

Iroquois01 and Spain01 NE to irrigate.

NewSettler and Archer08 auto move to their new home, the Red Dot.

Worker01 irrigates.

All Scouts on auto move to Mild-Mannered-Mecca to be disbanded.

OtherSetter (from Demaskus) and Archer01 auto move to near Mediocre-Medina.

ThisSettler (from Mediocre-Medina) and Archer09 N to Pink Dot.

Trading
Buy Worker from Vikings for Territory Map and 85 gold.

Viking01 S to irrigate.
​

[IBT]

085 875 BC

Viking01 irrigates

ThisSettler and Archer09 N.

Warrior05, Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 N to make road to NW cities.

Worker01, Worker03 and Worker04 SW to mine and road.

MM M-M-M grow in 3, settler in 3.

Trading
​

[IBT] 07 FarRiverside Worker -> Temple, due in 30

086 850 BC

Worker05 (from FarRiverside) NE to irrigate and road.

Worker01, Worker03 and Worker04 start mining.

ThisSettler and Archer09 NE to Pink Dot.

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 road; Warrior05 guards.

OtherSettler and Archer01 W, W and NW to Purple Dot.

NewSettler and Archer08 arrive at Red Dot.

Trading
Celts have new friends, the Americans. We can be friends, too, if the price is right. 9 gold does the trick.
The Americans lack Alphabet, Mysticism and Horseback Riding. We swap our territory map for their world map and 7 gold.
​

[IBT]
03 Demaskus Warrior -> Archer, due in 5
06 Kufah, Archer -> Horseman, due in 6

087 825 BC

NewSettler becomes 08 East Mecca on the Red Dot, worker in 10, grows in 7.

Worker05 irrigates.

ThisSettler becomes 09 A-jar on the Pink Dot, worker in 10, grows in 10.

OtherSettler and Archer09 NW.

Carthage01, Babylon01 and Archer03 SE across river, to irrigate and road.

Trading
What? All of the sudden, Iroquois, Babylon, Egypt, Vikings, Rome and Celts pick up thee techs: Literature, Code of Law and Mathematics. But from who?
No one will trade CoL. Math is WM and 200+ gold. I can wait.
Buy Korea's World Map for Territory Map and 10 gold. Discover that Korea has huge mountainous area SW of it.
​

[IBT] 01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca Settler -> Settler, due in 6
04 Ivory City Worker -> Granary, due in 60
05 Iron City culture expansion, iron deposit is in Arab hands

088 800 BC

Warrior05, Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 N to make road to 09 A-jar.

OtherSettler and Archer01 N to Purple Dot.

Worker05 (from Ivory City) NE to chop wood.

Settler (from M-M-M) auto move to New City 3 (not dotted) on Ring 1, two turns.

Carthage01 and Babylon01 irrigate, Archer03 guards.

Worker01, Worker03 and Worker04 road the mine.

Archer07, Spain01 and Iroquois01 N to irrigate and road.

Trading
India has Math, and so does Spain.
​

[IBT] 02 Mediocre-Medina Horseman -> Horseman, due in 5.
05 Iron City Worker -> Warrior, due in 10.

089 775 BC

Worker06 (from Iron City) SE to irrigate and road.

Iroquois01 and Carthage01 irrigate.

Worker02, Celt01 and Rome01 make road; Warrior05 guards.

OtherSettler makes 10 FussAat, worker in 10, grows in 7. Archer01 fortifies.

Worker01, Worker03 and Worker04 SW to BG, mine and road.

Settler arrives at New City 3.

Warrior06 auto move to New City 3, two turns.

Trading -
​

[IBT]

090 750 BC

Settler makes 11 Aden, Warrior in 5, grows in 7.

Worker06 irrigates.

Worker01, Worker03 and Worker04 mine the BG.

Trading -
​

[IBT]
End of Turnset Stats:

Science: Literature 3 turns
Treasury: 264 gold, -5gpt; 0.9.1
Trade: -
Cities:

• 01 Mild-Mannered-Mecca (4): grows in 2 turns, settler in 4 turns, culture expansion in 423 turns, 1 Horse.
• 02 Mediocre-Medina (4): grows in 4 turns, horseman in 3 turns, culture expansion in 217 turns.
• 03 Demaskus (5): grows in 4, archer in 8 turns, culture expansion in 36 turns.
• 04 Ivory City (1): grows in 1, granary in 58, culture expansion in 38 turns.
• 05 Iron City (1): grows in 7, warrior in 9, culture expansion in 43 turns.
• 06 Kufah (4): grows in 7, horseman in 4, 0 culture.
• 07 FarRiverside (2): grows in 1, temple in 11, 0 culture.
• 08 East Mecca (1): grows in 4, worker in 7, 0 culture.
• 09 A-jar (1): grows in 7, worker in 7, 0 culture.
• 10 FussAat (1): grows in 6, worker in 9, 0 culture.
• 11 Aden (1): grows in 7, warrior in 5, 0 culture.

Military:

• 01 Chariots
• 01 Horseman, 2 in production
• 10 Archers, 1 in production
• 07 Warriors, 2 in production
• 03 Scouts
• 07 Workers, 3 in production
• 00 Settlers, 1 in production
• 06 Slaves

Allowed units: 44 Total units: 29