China and Big Things

[allhailIndia]

Sorry for the typo in the title, but what I really want to talk about is the obsession we have of building the biggest, largest, etc.

If we look through history, almost every attempt to build something huge, something monstrous has come to grief. OF the original 7 wonders of the world, only one remains, that too after having been looted and robbed over and over again.


Yet we simply have'nt learnt. Over the past 100 years, we have had "marvels of technology ", blow up, sink or crash providing testament that it does not matter how big it is, but how well you do it ( only one meaning intended ).

Still we do not learn. China is even now trying to build the world's largest dam over a seisomologically active area. Even a small accident now will lead to huge number of deaths, and in case of any accident when the dam is completed, the casualty list will be around 300 million!!!!!.

So is it really worth it to build these white elephants or is it better that we aim for perfection in the smallest things we do, like the Romans.

 

[Flatlander Fox]

If you do the small stuff correctly, the big stuff will be easier to get done the right way too.

People are amazingly stupid, which makes them do stupid things, and think stupid thoughts.

Problem is, when these people have power LOOK OUT!

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
... and in case of any accident when the dam is completed, the casualty list will be around 300 million!!!!!.

All part of the population control policy. (just kidding, of course)

 

[Pellaken]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
Sorry for the typo in the title, but what I really want to talk about is the obsession we have of building the biggest, largest, etc.

If we look through history, almost every attempt to build something huge, something monstrous has come to grief. OF the original 7 wonders of the world, only one remains, that too after having been looted and robbed over and over again.


Yet we simply have'nt learnt. Over the past 100 years, we have had "marvels of technology ", blow up, sink or crash providing testament that it does not matter how big it is, but how well you do it ( only one meaning intended ).

Still we do not learn. China is even now trying to build the world's largest dam over a seisomologically active area. Even a small accident now will lead to huge number of deaths, and in case of any accident when the dam is completed, the casualty list will be around 300 million!!!!!.

So is it really worth it to build these white elephants or is it better that we aim for perfection in the smallest things we do, like the Romans.

about the tite, its funny, cause chyna is some kinda wrestler girl with big... uh... yea.

and as for that 300mil stat... I see it as BS, pure BS. even if the dam was in the most populase area of china, 300mil wouldent die.

 

[Vrylakas]

I've heard about the 3 Rivers Dam Project, and it indeed looks like a disaster in the making. This looks like it may be a candidate for the Darwin Awards...

Many countries have been afflicted with this megalo-architecture mania, the Americans not exempt. I have one of those free calendars you get from eating at a Chinese restaurant around New Years and it has in very bad English and German a statement reminding us that the Great Wall is the only man-made architecture you can see from space, and this dam will apparently join that club.

As for Pellaken's quibling with numbers, I do recall that several cities are being evacuated for the dam, and their populations are being relocated downstream. Hopefully we'll never find out, but if anything does go wrong the death toll will be very high indeed so perhaps 300 million isn't out of the question.

 

[History_Buff]

It seems to be a communist policy more than anything. The soviets and Chinese always like to show off by saying they have a bigger, or more of something than the Americans, and it always blows up in thier face. For example, the East German government tried to build a big tower right next to the wall to show off, but everyday at sunset when the sun hit it, it lit up Berlin with the biggest cross anyone had ever seen. Ironic, isnt it.

 

[allhailIndia]

I guess it's their way of pulling wool over their people's eyes about the real problems of the state.

WE in democracies just start wars

 

[History_Buff]

Good point India, but we in North American democracies spent endless dollars on useless weapons and make one hollow threat after another.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The dam project is called the Three Gorges Project. Apparently it was supposed to meet the energy needs of China in the future. And to control the flooding of the Yangzi (?).

Not only were hundreds of thousands of people need to be relocated but the project will forever flood a huge area full of Chinese historical and cultural artifacts, undiscovered and awaiting discovery. Currently, archaeologists are trying to excavate and save as much as they can.

 

[Ohwell]

Hmm... well if the dam will power the nation, then so be it. The artifacts can be moved and such...

But the dam would NEVER cost that many lives, perhaps endagering that many but not killing them.

 

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
The dam project is called the Three Gorges Project. Apparently it was supposed to meet the energy needs of China in the future. And to control the flooding of the Yangzi (?).

Not only were hundreds of thousands of people need to be relocated but the project will forever flood a huge area full of Chinese historical and cultural artifacts, undiscovered and awaiting discovery. Currently, archaeologists are trying to excavate and save as much as they can.

Besides the unsound engineering associated with the
project, Hydro is the way to go. And yes it also allows
both flood control and drought control.

Would those people be better off beside a Coal generator,
or a Russian reactor?. In twenty years the ecology of the area
will adjust (if the dam holds).

Let the archaeologists get their wet suits on if they want to dig.

 

[amadeus]

Yeah, get a Russian nuclear reactor...those worked out real well in the Ukraine.

 

[History_Buff]

Yes, and the Chinese, they'll probably pich the most populated place they can find to put it. The Chinese should probably build thier own reactor though, so they at least know how to use it.

 

[Han Wu Di]

Originally posted by History_Buff
It seems to be a communist policy more than anything. The soviets and Chinese always like to show off by saying they have a bigger, or more of something than the Americans, and it always blows up in thier face. For example, the East German government tried to build a big tower right next to the wall to show off, but everyday at sunset when the sun hit it, it lit up Berlin with the biggest cross anyone had ever seen. Ironic, isnt it.

Just to tell you something(politely) Chinese do not need to show off to anybody in the world.Throughout the history they have always been doing something big more than any other civilization The Great Wall,The Grand Canal,The terracotta warrior ,The Forbidden City and the mighty fleet of ships that sailed to America,Australia and Africa. All of this are wonders of the world .
By the way building such a large dam isnt a Communist policy,once the dam is completed they have a long term impact on Chinese economy ,environment and agriculture.It generates large electricity ,reducing the use of coal that harms the environment.The dam can help to irrigate the land too.
There is one thing I dont understand about your logic,why would you have such a view when a country build something that is the largest in the world(maybe jealous)?

 

[Lt.Col. Kilgore]

Originally posted by Han Wu Di

Just to tell you something(politely) Chinese do not need to show off to anybody in the world.Throughout the history they have always been doing something big more than any other civilization The Great Wall,The Grand Canal,The terracotta warrior ,The Forbidden City and the mighty fleet of ships that sailed to America,Australia and Africa. All of this are wonders of the world .
By the way building such a large dam isnt a Communist policy,once the dam is completed they have a long term impact on Chinese economy ,environment and agriculture.It generates large electricity ,reducing the use of coal that harms the environment.The dam can help to irrigate the land too.
There is one thing I dont understand about your logic,why would you have such a view when a country build something that is the largest in the world(maybe jealous)?

Terribly sorry that AllHailIndia is commenting on Chinese structural undertakings. Though China isn't being commented on exclusively as can be seen in the post you quoted. I believe it was commenting more towards Communist Policy rather than China itself. This being the case, half of your diatribe was out of context.

Yes we all know China is the greatest country ever, but we hope by all of us westerners, whose country's accomplishments pale in comparison to those of the Chinese, humouring ourselves in the ridiculous concept of China having ANY political, technological, or cultural undertakings that are folly will help us to alleviate our feelings of self-doubt in our positions as third world sattelite states of the great empire that is China. We thrive on exploitation of easterners, and only by the grace of this, have we accomplished as little as we did. So please won't you indulge our need for self-aggrandisement?

In all seriousness I like China very much and I don't like most cultures. So yes I recognise that China has definately contributed just as much as any other nation. But what I'm saying is: China isn't the only great nation there is and you should quit taking those communist party blokes so seriously. I have a feeling every little thing they say isn't exactly true...

And no I don't live in Vietnam. That as my location is somewhat of a joke that compliments my name. I'm really a dirty Yank.

 

[History Guy]

Mankind or Humankind if you prefer that phrase, is a dolt.

At least, that is, when it comes to some things. One of these things concerns construction. Focus has simply turned from building safety, and wisely, to just building big. The bigger it is, the better, right? Size does matter! The more impressive it is the better. Of course, what the architect and the company (and, in some cases, the government) tend to forget, much to the dismay of nitpickers like me, is that sometimes the bigger something is, the more dangerous it is to have around. Who wants to have the Sears Tower in your backyard? How many witnesses of the attacks on the World Trade Center on the 11th of September 2001, want to have an apartment next to a colossus?

For as early as man can remember, man has started to try and build big, and right from the Biblical Tower of Babel, something has managed to go wrong with it. Mankind has learned, much to his horror, that tall buildings can be destroyed by many things, from natural disasters to accidents to attacks from the enemy, that colossal statues can be brought down by hurricanes, and that great lighthouses can be swept into the sea by a furious wave. However, one of the most infuriating things in the world is that mankind doesn't seem to get the idea that big, tall buildings aren't always the way to go. One can be warned that building these things might well have terrible consequences, but it won't necessarily stop one from building them.

A prime example, as it was pointed out here, would be the current project of the People's Republic of China, the Three Gorges Project. When the plans were drawn out in 1993, the Three Gorges Project was designed to be the World's largest water conservation project. The dam proposed over the World's third longest river, the Yangtze would be the site of the World's largest hydropower plant as well. Surely, this will be quite impressive when it is completed. Started in 1993, it was estimated that construction would be completed in 2009.

After the Chinese government cleared the area of the Three Gorges for the construction, locks were immediately constructed so as not to block the extensive sea traffic along the Yangtze. Some 844,000 individuals have been moved for re-settlement, and the tally will, in all probability, grow to be well over a million people moved.

It sounds nice and all until one gets down to the more troubling details. The area where the construction has begun is seismologically active. In other words, earthquakes are very common in the area, and indeed, earthquakes are bound to happen there in the future. Even in a small event, the casualty list would be tremendously high. If a moderately sized earthquake occurred in the area, with the dam built, there may well be up to 300 million people killed, injured, or made destitute. One must wonder, what is the point of it then? Why on earth would someone even dream up this harebrained idea if the chances of disaster were so high? Its rather too late to ask now, as construction has been going on since 1993.

Go figure. Mankind definitely is a dolt.

 

[allhailIndia]

Originally posted by Lt.Col. Kilgore


Terribly sorry that AllHailIndia is commenting on Chinese structural undertakings. Though China isn't being commented on exclusively as can be seen in the post you quoted. I believe it was commenting more towards Communist Policy rather than China itself. This being the case, half of your diatribe was out of context.

Yes we all know China is the greatest country ever, but we hope by all of us westerners, whose country's accomplishments pale in comparison to those of the Chinese, humouring ourselves in the ridiculous concept of China having ANY political, technological, or cultural undertakings that are folly will help us to alleviate our feelings of self-doubt in our positions as third world sattelite states of the great empire that is China. We thrive on exploitation of easterners, and only by the grace of this, have we accomplished as little as we did. So please won't you indulge our need for self-aggrandisement?

In all seriousness I like China very much and I don't like most cultures. So yes I recognise that China has definately contributed just as much as any other nation. But what I'm saying is: China isn't the only great nation there is and you should quit taking those communist party blokes so seriously. I have a feeling every little thing they say isn't exactly true...

And no I don't live in Vietnam. That as my location is somewhat of a joke that compliments my name. I'm really a dirty Yank.

That was a fairly hard to read to post with all the long words and sarcasm dripping from it like an icecream in the Sahara

Generally, I agree with the gist of it and I feel that the Communist Party of China (if that is the correct title), is trying to take away the world's attention from the famines, food shortages, blind corruption and brutal treatment of minorities.

I think the world is getting carried away by the successes of Shanghai and Shenzen so much that we are forgetting about the 100,000 laid off workers who are protesting their status. The Dam may provide employment for about 7-8 years from now, but it brings with it severe risks that would tear the entire fabric of Chinese society apart and to believe that somehow, by building biger and larger stuff, we can conquer nature is sheer stupidity

 

[Zwelgje]

The dam is not only potentially dangerous but it's also potentially useless as it is build in a river that holds a lot of mud. This mud can obstruct the water intake and the dam won't function anymore. All in all it would have been more wise to construct several smaller dams in more suitable rivers.

 

[Groovin']

It seems to be a communist policy more than anything. The soviets and Chinese always like to show off by saying they have a bigger, or more of something than the Americans, and it always blows up in thier face. For example, the East German government tried to build a big tower right next to the wall to show off, but everyday at sunset when the sun hit it, it lit up Berlin with the biggest cross anyone had ever seen. Ironic, isnt it.

I dont think it is mainly a Communist policy, the Yanks were the same.... i think its more like, if another powerful country does something, we have have to do the same or better, it is always a game of one-upsmanship.... f***** stupid policy, instead of concentrating on their own countries peoples, they have to build / do something to make another superpower / country jealous.

 

[allhailIndia]

If you compare the actual great empires and the "pretenders" you notice that the "great " empires never set out to build the **greatest** or the LARGEST things. They only did things with Perfection