SirJethro
Paterfamilias
What is your opinion of China's one child policy? Does a government's claim to need to control population justify forced abortion, forced reproductive freedom, etc., etc.?
China's one child policy?
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SirJethro
Paterfamilias
Background info....
Men without women
Jun 20th 2002 | BEIJING
From The Economist print edition
The consequence of family planning
IT HAS been more than 20 years since China implemented its harsh yet effective family-planning policy. By limiting urban couples to a single child and most rural couples to two, China has managed to slow the growth of the world's largest population. Now, however, the government must figure out what to do about the policy's unintended consequence: a huge and potentially destabilising sex imbalance. Statistics just released based on the 2000 census disclose that, in the country as a whole, about 117 boys are born for every 100 girls. The imbalance is extraordinary in some areas, exceeding 135 for 100 in southern Hainan province.
The reasons are easy to fathom. When couples were free to have half a dozen children, there was a natural mix of boys and girls. When limited to one or two, they worked the system to produce sons. At the benign extreme, a girl's birth might simply not be registered, in the hope that next time the couple would produce a male. More worrying is widespread sex-selective abortion. Cheap but effective ultrasound equipment is now available throughout China and, though the practice is illegal, it is routinely used for pre-natal sex determination. The abortion that apparently often follows is devoid of taboo in China and extremely easy to arrange.
All this leads to worries about how society can function without enough women. The prospect of a large surplus of single men in China alarms Valerie Hudson, a professor at Brigham Young University in the United States. In a study to be published in the next issue of Harvard University's journal International Security, she notes that societies with large numbers of unmarried males tend to experience more crime, unrest and violence. While acknowledging that sex imbalance is only one of many factors influencing levels of violence, Miss Hudson points out that the 30m unhappy unmarried men China is likely to have by 2020 could become kindling for forces of political revolution at home. There could also be an impact outside China, she says. The government may decide to use the surplus men as a weapon for military adventurism and actively desire to see them give their lives in pursuit of a national interest. A terrifying thought indeed.
Men without women
Jun 20th 2002 | BEIJING
From The Economist print edition
The consequence of family planning
IT HAS been more than 20 years since China implemented its harsh yet effective family-planning policy. By limiting urban couples to a single child and most rural couples to two, China has managed to slow the growth of the world's largest population. Now, however, the government must figure out what to do about the policy's unintended consequence: a huge and potentially destabilising sex imbalance. Statistics just released based on the 2000 census disclose that, in the country as a whole, about 117 boys are born for every 100 girls. The imbalance is extraordinary in some areas, exceeding 135 for 100 in southern Hainan province.
The reasons are easy to fathom. When couples were free to have half a dozen children, there was a natural mix of boys and girls. When limited to one or two, they worked the system to produce sons. At the benign extreme, a girl's birth might simply not be registered, in the hope that next time the couple would produce a male. More worrying is widespread sex-selective abortion. Cheap but effective ultrasound equipment is now available throughout China and, though the practice is illegal, it is routinely used for pre-natal sex determination. The abortion that apparently often follows is devoid of taboo in China and extremely easy to arrange.
All this leads to worries about how society can function without enough women. The prospect of a large surplus of single men in China alarms Valerie Hudson, a professor at Brigham Young University in the United States. In a study to be published in the next issue of Harvard University's journal International Security, she notes that societies with large numbers of unmarried males tend to experience more crime, unrest and violence. While acknowledging that sex imbalance is only one of many factors influencing levels of violence, Miss Hudson points out that the 30m unhappy unmarried men China is likely to have by 2020 could become kindling for forces of political revolution at home. There could also be an impact outside China, she says. The government may decide to use the surplus men as a weapon for military adventurism and actively desire to see them give their lives in pursuit of a national interest. A terrifying thought indeed.
Skullbones
Captain
I saw something about this on TV a few months ago. Many of the men had to buy wives from far away places. Why do they want male children and not females?
I really think overpopulation is a serious problem, but I have no idea how to fix the problem. I don't like the idea of the government getting involved in such a personal decision, I would much rather people voluntarily choose to have zero or one child.
I really think overpopulation is a serious problem, but I have no idea how to fix the problem. I don't like the idea of the government getting involved in such a personal decision, I would much rather people voluntarily choose to have zero or one child.
SirJethro
Paterfamilias
Also, because it is cultural....carrying on of the family name, power, etc., etc. Remeber, this is a country where women have a much different status than men.
Hamlet
Manic Depressive
Fairly understanderble, if not really hugely justifiable, under the circumstances.
This isn't limited to China. Families in most not-completly-developed countries prefer boys to girls. And this isn't limited to the mistakenly perceived "heathen unenlightened lands". This was also the case in Europe before mass education became the norm as opposed to the exception. Only in recent times can people in developed countries be surprised at the tendancies of the under developed to prize boys above girls.
Remember that the population isn't the best educated in the world. Family planning is quite limited in the world. Mainly to developed countries where male and female principle wage earners has become the norm.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
In most societies there are solid economic reasons to prefer sons. In a farming culture for example, boys are better able to do the brute force lifting and hauling which is required. Add to this the common economic practices that exist even in the civilized world which make it easier for a family to marry off a son, and it is not surprising that given a choice, more parents choose boys than girls.
J
J
Stile
Emperor
Seems while the effect might be unintended, it would serve to greater decrease population growth since there would be fewer couples.
I used to live in Norfolk, VA (home of the largest naval base in the world), while I was going to school. A large unmarried male population does cause problems such as a high crime rate, but I never felt unsafe. Maybe they just hired more unmarried policemen. There were a lot of bars, tattoo parlors, and men oriented businesses (used cars, car audio, sports clothing, low-class pizza and wing joints), but that didn't bother me any.
I had recently thought about unbalanced gender distribution when I heard that male smoking resulted in higher female baby birth rates. I thought it would be funny if we smoked our way out of existence.
Maybe the Chinese can move to California (those not already there) where I read the population was 52% female. I guess by looking at California we can see what a large unmarried woman population can do to society.
Unrelated: The same article I read said that hispanics were now the largest minority in California. But since whites were only 45% of the population, I think white males are the largest minority.
I used to live in Norfolk, VA (home of the largest naval base in the world), while I was going to school. A large unmarried male population does cause problems such as a high crime rate, but I never felt unsafe. Maybe they just hired more unmarried policemen. There were a lot of bars, tattoo parlors, and men oriented businesses (used cars, car audio, sports clothing, low-class pizza and wing joints), but that didn't bother me any.
I had recently thought about unbalanced gender distribution when I heard that male smoking resulted in higher female baby birth rates. I thought it would be funny if we smoked our way out of existence.
Maybe the Chinese can move to California (those not already there) where I read the population was 52% female. I guess by looking at California we can see what a large unmarried woman population can do to society.
Unrelated: The same article I read said that hispanics were now the largest minority in California. But since whites were only 45% of the population, I think white males are the largest minority.
Glance Twice
Chieftain
with the one chile policy a lot of kids in China got spoiled... and i dont really think that males are better than females
Stile
Emperor
So is this, I guess.
Forcible rape (rates per 100,000)
National Average 32.0
Norfolk, VA 52.0
New York, NY 21.0
Maybe that's why I felt safe. Here are the rest of the rates.
Crime Rate City Comparison
Forcible rape (rates per 100,000)
National Average 32.0
Norfolk, VA 52.0
New York, NY 21.0
Maybe that's why I felt safe. Here are the rest of the rates.
Crime Rate City Comparison
Double Barrel
Deity
*BAM*!
I would not underestimate Chinese ambition in the world. A sleeping dragon, IMHO.
I think it is a sad affair, to be honest. The mere idea that the state knows better than the individual is a direct conflict of everything that I believe.
Anyway, the overpopulation argument was completely overblown. A recent issue of Discovery magazine had an article about overpopulation and the fact that the figures were wildly exagerated. The forecast now is 10 billion people by 2050, and these are figures estimated WITHOUT a major world war.
Greadius
:yeah:
Its inhumane and barbaric to attempt to circumvent human reproductive nature by government decree.
Reading about Chinese abortion clinics was a chilling experience.
Reading about Chinese abortion clinics was a chilling experience.
highflyin213
Warlord
China's one child policy is good i guess, what can the do besides that
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
What does everyone think of the old Science Fiction notion that reproduction be licensed. One argument goes that in olden days we had to regulate the ovaries by regulating the entire woman carrying them. Now we can do the same thing medically.
So, how would you react to having all female children, prior to menarche, receiving an implant, which could only be removed under court order, and which could be countered by taking oral medication. The result is that normal pregancy could not occur without state permission of some kind.
J
So, how would you react to having all female children, prior to menarche, receiving an implant, which could only be removed under court order, and which could be countered by taking oral medication. The result is that normal pregancy could not occur without state permission of some kind.
J
klazlo
Avatarless Sociologist
I think this policy had its reason to carry out. China's population boom was way over what their economic development could handle. By now, they are over the worst part. As many of you know the second largest population can be found in India and that definitely will cause problems in the near future as they don't have any policy like that.
If you compare the population pyramids of China and India, you'll see the difference. They can be found here:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbpyr.html
There are particular reasons, why male newborns are favored, both cultural and economic. It happens in China but it happens in other countries, and it particularly happens in India, especially in Punjab, even to a greater extent as in China.
One really sad feature of this gender-preference that it does not end at abortion but girls in their early ages face other family decisions that affects their mortality patterns, for example in nutrition - imagine a large family where there is not enough food, and figure out who is the last in the line...
If you compare the population pyramids of China and India, you'll see the difference. They can be found here:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbpyr.html
There are particular reasons, why male newborns are favored, both cultural and economic. It happens in China but it happens in other countries, and it particularly happens in India, especially in Punjab, even to a greater extent as in China.
One really sad feature of this gender-preference that it does not end at abortion but girls in their early ages face other family decisions that affects their mortality patterns, for example in nutrition - imagine a large family where there is not enough food, and figure out who is the last in the line...
china444
Ain't no thang
What do you mean?
I never started any '1 child policy'.
J/K
I never started any '1 child policy'.
J/K
Greadius
:yeah:
I'm as much a brutal economist as the next guy, but I can't justify pervasive government interference in the lives of people for economic benefit.
The problem with China having too many people is that the government took the responsibility for feeding all these people and giving them something to do. Too much bureaucracy, so instead of cutting the scope of governments role in the people's lives they cut the people. Far more managable for a repressive regime.
The problem with China having too many people is that the government took the responsibility for feeding all these people and giving them something to do. Too much bureaucracy, so instead of cutting the scope of governments role in the people's lives they cut the people. Far more managable for a repressive regime.
Dark Ascendant
Darkness Ascending...
And what would motivate them to celibacy? China's one child policy is immoral and unethical; but it is NOT unneccesary.
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