Have you ever changed your mind because of a debate/discussion here?

[Narz]

and at the same time saying you don't care about the experiences of others.

Of course I care about the experiences of others. As an excuse to act poorly tho I don't care.

Not everything is about you.

I assume your conversation where you quote me has something to do with me...

 

[Gorbles]

Of course I care about the experiences of others. As an excuse to act poorly tho I don't care.

So you don't care. Or you care conditionally. You can't say "I care except when I decide they're acting poorly". That makes you the judge; the arbiter.

Why should anyone care about your judgement?

I assume your conversation where you quote me has something to do with me...

You can assume whatever you want. I posted because I wanted to post. It doesn't have to be about you personally. In fact, I'd in all honesty prefer that it wasn't!

 

[Farm Boy]

Some are taking advantage of that to push their own political talking points (not you, Valka, and not Syn).

Is there a concrete for me to associate this with, or is it a boogieman again?

 

[Narz]

So you don't care. Or you care conditionally. You can't say "I care except when I decide they're acting poorly". That makes you the judge; the arbiter.

I already explained.

I don't care for for excuses. Not that I don't care at all.

Why should anyone care about your judgement?

They shouldn't. But why do you?

You can assume whatever you want. I posted because I wanted to post. It doesn't have to be about you personally. In fact, I'd in all honesty prefer that it wasn't!

If you're not talking to me but just talking to her yourself talk don't quote me.

 

[Narz]

Is there a concrete for me to associate this with, or is it a boogieman again?

It's all in his head. It's not about you.

 

[Farm Boy]

He usually has reasons, I assume.

People seem to like telling me I'm hard to understand, so I'm trying to point out where not squaring up to the point at hand is flat losing the trail for me.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And if the experts are unavailable? Or tired? Or ill?

Nothing and nobody is infallible. Asking experts for advice is different from demanding their infinite time and patience. Do you have the time and energy to answer questions from everyone on disability issues? Would you still have the time and energy if the a group of posters kept asking the same questions, challenging your answers, and never seeming to take on board what you were saying? Because (again specifically wrt. LGTBQ issues) that's what happens in OT a lot.

Obviously if they're unavailable, I can't ask, can I.

Please don't condescend, Gorbles. I don't demand anyone's infinite time and patience. And there's a difference between asking advice and asking the meaning of a particular flag (not the pride flag, but a different one; that's what led to an exchange so unpleasant that I figured okay, why even bother if I'm going to get that in return).

As for what else you describe, that's what it's like to deal with disability issues on the rare occasion that we're actually allowed to comment on disability-related stories on the news site I read, or on YT when issues of disability come up for Canadians (Albertans in particular), or the various political pages and groups I'm part of on FB. Trying to explain to some compassionless jerk from a party of compassionless jerks that there are many reasons why the disabled "can't just" do whatever it is they're imagining we could do if we weren't so damn lazy or even worse, NDP supporters, is something I do every single day. I have to explain disability issues to the person who manages the apartment building I live in, because there are things he can't fathom are unsafe for people like me and those residents who are in wheelchairs. Explaining what barriers exist for the disabled population when it comes to voting is something I've done for every election for close to 25 years.

So I know what it's like, yet I keep doing it, I don't shut down anyone who asks, because I know other people are reading besides the person I'm directly answering, and THEY may be the person for whom the light bulb goes off and they realize that changes need to happen, that something really is a problem, and something needs to be done about it.

I honestly think the politicians running my province are lost causes themselves. There's not a brain cell among the lot that gives a damn about any of the marginalized groups, not really. We get crumbs just before an election - maybe (the feds aren't even trying this time around, and the government could possibly fall in days or weeks and they know it) - but even those aren't happening this time. But after the election, they're often cut or eliminated entirely.

 

[Gorbles]

Is there a concrete for me to associate this with, or is it a boogieman again?

If you genuinely want something concrete, throw me a PM. Or call it a boogeyman, it doesn't matter to me.

Like, the petty whatever in this thread doesn't count, right? But it's on the same tracks. Because people like to conflate the person with the cause.

(also I'm several hours ahead of you and about to crash)

I already explained.

I don't care for for excuses. Not that I don't care at all.

Same difference when you're the one defining what is and isn't an excuse.

They shouldn't. But why do you?

Don't worry, I don't. I'm just asking, because you're the one insisting on this rule of civility.

If you're not talking to me but just talking to her yourself talk don't quote me.

I do. I am. Do you have anything useful to contribute? Do you actually want to discuss anything? Because that's what I'm trying to do, in all honesty. Alas:

It's all in his head. It's not about you.

Civility

Obviously if they're unavailable, I can't ask, can I.

Please don't condescend, Gorbles. I don't demand anyone's infinite time and patience. And there's a difference between asking advice and asking the meaning of a particular flag (not the pride flag, but a different one; that's what led to an exchange so unpleasant that I figured okay, why even bother if I'm going to get that in return).

I'm not condescending. I'm trying to explain the point.

"not available" isn't just a physical thing online. Someone can be on a forum but not up to handling an invasive and repetitive set of questions from posters that never take them seriously. It takes time and mental energy.

The importance and effort required for any question is defined by the answered, not the person asking the question. Asking me how a game engine works takes you 2 seconds. Any answer I can think of requires significantly more than that. You might think the question is trivial, but it might not turn out that way. That's why you want to ask the expert, right?

(dumb example from me, game engines are inherently complex, but that's one of the things I know about)

As for what else you describe, that's what it's like to deal with disability issues on the rare occasion that we're actually allowed to comment on disability-related stories on the news site I read, or on YT when issues of disability come up for Canadians (Albertans in particular), or the various political pages and groups I'm part of on FB. Trying to explain to some compassionless jerk from a party of compassionless jerks that there are many reasons why the disabled "can't just" do whatever it is they're imagining we could do if we weren't so damn lazy or even worse, NDP supporters, is something I do every single day. I have to explain disability issues to the person who manages the apartment building I live in, because there are things he can't fathom are unsafe for people like me and those residents who are in wheelchairs. Explaining what barriers exist for the disabled population when it comes to voting is something I've done for every election for close to 25 years.

So I know what it's like, yet I keep doing it, I don't shut down anyone who asks, because I know other people are reading besides the person I'm directly answering, and THEY may be the person for whom the light bulb goes off and they realize that changes need to happen, that something really is a problem, and something needs to be done about it.

Exactly.

And yet everyone has their own limit. It isn't a personal failing to have one. It isn't a personal failing to get angry; to have emotions.

Nobody is perfect, Valka. Assuming I'm being condescending when I'm truly not is an example. Assuming Syn is insinuating something is another example.

How do you feel when people assume that kind of thing about you? Isn't that exactly what you objected to earlier in the thread?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Time to move on from the specific [poster] to the general [thread topic]. Thanks.

 

[Quintillus]

Yes. I used to think that swords were the best ancient era unit in Civ III. Thanks to discussions on CivFanatics, I now believe that horses are the best ancient era unit in Civ III.

In terms of Off-Topic? I think it's more along the lines of refining my views and gaining new perspectives. There aren't that many cases where I've decided, "I was totally wrong about that", but there are a lot of, "that's an interesting consideration I hadn't thought of." And it's often hard to tease out what might be due to discussion here (especially as someone who only swings by OT on occasion), versus an idea I got from a news article, or from a real-life conversation.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I learned to back out of arguments at least 3 posts earlier than I used to, because life really is just too short.